Elsie Wayne

[Parliament Of Canada Act, June 13th, 2000]

Unlike members of the official opposition I will say yes because I do not have a problem listening to other people. I will listen for a couple of minutes.

[Parliament Of Canada Act, June 13th, 2000]

On September 12, 1995, an MP from B.C. who at that time was a Reformer said that MPs were still at the trough. Others did not think it was being at the trough. They thought they owed it to their offspring.

I have been hurt by the statements and comments made in the House about members of parliament. I cannot believe what some members said about those of us who have given over 25 years of our lives to make for a better quality of life for our people. I would never say that about any member of the House. I have never ever said it. I have never used that kind of language. I do not intend to use it tonight. I will quote what members of the official opposition have said about everybody else in the House, but I have never referred to any of them in that way. Nor will I do it tonight.

The member for Fraser Valley stated that all Reform Party members would opt out of the pension plan because they stand on principle and do not swim in gravy. I have never swam in gravy. I am pleased that I am known in my riding as someone of principle.

Last week I was asked to go to a Baptist convention in Moncton. I was the guest speaker for a pro-life meeting. Representatives from all across Canada were there. They did not ask others to do it. I was humbled and proud to be there. I am a person of principle. I take great offence at the statements that have been made by members of the official opposition about me, about others in my party and about others who sit on the government side. We are people of principle. Most of us would not even think of being here if it were not that we wanted to do something that was best for the people of Canada.

I think about why members would come here if they did not want to do something that was better for their people. Why would they want to be here and do and say the things they do? If members of the official opposition wish to come into the pension plan it is up to them. Fine and dandy. We have heard all kinds of rumours in the House about the large numbers in that party who want to have a pension. That is fine, but they should not say derogatory things about other people.

[Parliament Of Canada Act, June 13th, 2000]

Madam Speaker, if we are talking about a class act, I would say that we would not be debating this issue if members of the official opposition had conducted themselves in a class act fashion in the past. We would not even be discussing this.

I brought forth a private member's bill to change the pension plan. Oh, yes. They are smiling. My private member's bill did change the pension plan. I had asked that no one be entitled to a pension until the age of 60, and the government lowered it to the age of 55. Others can take all the credit they want, but it came through my private member's bill.

When I listen tonight to the comments being made by the official opposition about money being wasted, I have to say that 90% of those who are sitting in the House when they leave will not get a pension until the age of 55, if they have been here for six consecutive years. Some of them will have a long wait. Some members of the official opposition probably have about 25 years to wait before they will get anything.

When we talk about taking all of this money from the taxpayers, that really is not painting the picture that should be painted.

My hon. colleague, who is not in the House right now, who comes from the southern end of the province, mentioned that if I were to go out on a pension it would be $21,000, but it would not. If I were to go out on a pension for the length of time that I have been here, it would be about $17,000, probably a little less than the vice-principals of our schools back home would receive.

That is fine. That is very fine with me. That does not bother me one bit. However, I want to say this. I listened to the quotes that were made, the things that were said about the people here who have given from their hearts and souls to do what is right for Canadians from coast to coast. I heard the things that members said. They called us names.

[Parliament Of Canada Act, June 13th, 2000]

It was not real classy when you did it either.

[Parliament Of Canada Act, June 13th, 2000]

I forgot. Yes, they changed the name. Is it CCRAP? No, it is CA.

[Parliament Of Canada Act, June 13th, 2000]

Madam Speaker, in listening to the hon. member of the Reform Party speak about the pension—

[National Defence, June 13th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, all I can say to the minister on that one is, like his shipbuilding policy today, that statement simply does not float.

Throughout the situation of leaks the Minister of National Defence has praised the frigates built in the Saint John shipyard and the Quebec shipyard, and rightfully so, he should praise them. However, the Department of National Defence and the companies involved in the frigate program have seen their reputations tarnished as a result of charges not being laid.

Why will the minister not do an independent RCMP investigation?

[National Defence, June 13th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, things must not only be right, they must appear to be right. For obvious reasons I take any discussion about the frigate program very seriously, as it is dear to my heart.

When contracts are being bid on for the frigates and DND officials are leaking sensitive documents to certain companies, that is not right.

With this unacceptable practice, will the Minister of National Defence tell the House why he will not have an independent RCMP investigation into these leaks?

[Parliament Of Canada Act, June 12th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I wonder how the hon. member feels about people who have given 25 years of their lives. Does he not feel they should have any form of pension whatsoever? Perhaps their spouse is ill and they need some form of health care plan, which one also loses when one leaves here. Does he not feel they should be able to look after that person? How does he expect them to feed and care for that person? How does the hon. member expect the family will survive? I truly am in absolute shock.

For 18 years I served at the local level. I gave right from the heart and I am glad I did. I hope I was able to do something positive for my people. When I left and came here they shook hands with me and said, “Thank you very much for being with us”. In fact, some have asked me to come back. I get no pension for that, absolutely not a penny, but a lovely hug and a thank you. I thank them for that hug and the thank you they gave to me.

I came here. I probably made history in 1993. We did not have any money for research when there were just two of us. I did not know I could put in for my living expenses. I paid for it all out of my own pocket from 1993 to 1997. I did not know that we could be compensated.

Here we are with a little pension that someone told me tonight was around $20,000 a year. Heavens, when I heard about the gold plated pension, I thought it must have been something that was around $40,000 a year. After 25 or 30 years of their lives, people are going to get $20,000 a year. Is that not something?

I am not just looking at my life but I am looking at the lives of so many who are here, people who have been here much longer than I have, 20 to 25 years. Do they not deserve something? I have never had one single solitary person in my riding say to me, “We do not want you to have a pension”. Not one person has ever said that to me.

I say to my hon. friend that I just cannot believe what I am hearing tonight. All members are deserving of something. I think if every Canadian from coast to coast knew the sacrifices made by members and their families and spouses who allow them, whether they are male or female, to come here to this House of Commons to serve their people, not one that I know of, if they were told the truth, would not want members to have some form of compensation through a pension when they leave here.

[National Defence, June 1st, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP witness tells us that there were severe command problems in Delta Company seven years ago. Why will the Minister of National Defence once again allow senior officers to investigate themselves?

Things must not only be right. They must appear to be right, so why is the minister afraid to authorize an arm's length inquiry to investigate every aspect of this out of control company? Then the military will have a positive picture of them.