David Collenette

[Department Of National Defence, April 15th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has shown once again how selective he is with the facts.

I would rather listen to the commission counsel who this morning raised some further concerns and asked the department to provide answers by this Thursday. I would prefer to wait until next Monday when a certain hearing can be started on the public affairs aspect of the problem so that the chief of defence staff and others can state their case.

It does not serve us well every day in the House to rehash the accusations, the comments that come from the commission. That is why the commission was established, to remove it from Parliament to let an independent group take the appropriate action and review this in the clear light of day.

[Department Of National Defence, April 15th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member will remember that about a year or so ago in the House I said that when the commission was set up all relevant documents would be made available to the commission. The department has tried to meet the expectations that were made of it to provide those documents.

It is quite apparent that there have been some problems with the documents that appear to be missing. The department has given certain explanations. In fact, the chief of defence staff initiated a

search last week which turned up further documents that are now being analysed by the commission.

When the hon. member implies that we did not take the search for documents seriously, that is not true. Even as late as last week, to assist the commission this week in its exercise to look at the documents, it was the department that asked the RCMP computer experts to come in and assist it with respect to those deficiencies relating to the computers.

[Department Of National Defence, April 15th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, the search for documents was a very important exercise for the Canadian Forces. I think it shows that the members of the Canadian Forces are willing to co-operate with the commission.

The hon. member across the way has accused the Chief of the Defence Staff of committing offenses, even though the CDS has not had the opportunity to share his views with the commission. This is not how the Canadian justice system works.

[National Defence, April 15th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I think the Prime Minister has dealt with that on a number of occasions.

This has been a particularly troublesome file for all of us in government. The Department of National Defence is under instructions to make all documents available to the commission. There have been some problems. I welcome the commission's deciding to set aside these two weeks to look at the documentation problem.

Obviously by what has transpired this morning the commission still requires further answers. Departmental officials will give those answers. However, it is very important that individuals, whether the chief of defence staff or others who have been named publicly by the Reform Party or others in the media, have an opportunity to go to the commission, state their own case and be judged in the eyes of all Canadians fairly and justly because that is what Canadian justice is all about.

[National Defence, April 15th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I certainly will not ask the chief of the defence staff to step aside.

It seems the members of the Reform Party are intent on making accusations, not allowing individuals to state their cases before the commission and drawing their own conclusions. This is foreign to Canadian justice which has served us well for over a century as a nation.

I think the inquiry process is working. The chairman of the commission has noted a problem with documentation and has set aside a couple of weeks to look at this specific issue and hopefully will draw some conclusions.

If it is apparent, as the chairman said, that outside help, whether the military police or the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, should be involved, that is the job of the commission to identify.

I cannot reply every day to accusations that come forward at the commission. That is why we set up the commission, to take it out of the political arena and put it where it belongs, in front of three independent people to evaluate the facts.

[National Defence, March 28th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I do not intend to respond to that particular tirade except to say unequivocally, and I can document this and I will put these documents on the table of the House, that it was the deputy minister of defence who alerted the information commissioner to these problems and therefore the investigation ensued as a result of the department's initiative, not as a result of the initiative of that person, the person who required the information under access to information law.

[National Defence, March 28th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, first it is the Leader of the Reform Party talking about routing out those who have created the problem and the infractions as if he knows more than the information commissioner, that he has evidence and knows the facts better than the information commissioner.

Now it is the hon. member saying that in Reform's eyes, because I said in the House that we would get to the bottom of the matter, it has to be done the next day.

What we are seeing here is Reform justice, which is make the charge, do not get the facts and come to the conclusions.

The department, the CDS, the deputy minister and I behaved in the responsible way. When we needed outside help, I said on the floor of the House of Commons that if we were not satisfied with internal review mechanisms we would go to an outside agency.

We took this to Mr. Grace. He initiated the investigation. He has now made it public. Let the course of justice, which has been called for by Mr. Grace and the military police report, take effect.

[National Defence, March 28th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I do not want to repeat the same answer.

The hon. member talks about taking politics out of the issue. I think that is very good advice. I ask that the Reform Party do it. This has nothing to do with the men and women who are serving in Bosnia or in Haiti.

This has to do with a very difficult problem that occurred before the government was elected. It has been a very difficult problem to handle, to make sure that we are fair to the institution and to the principles of basic justice.

I am as concerned as the members on that side about recent events, especially in the facts outlined in Mr. Grace's letter. If the hon. member were to read Mr. Grace's letter he would see that in this case the department has acted extremely responsibly by getting outside opinions, by having an outside investigation as well as a military police investigation. If there is wrongdoing, it will be dealt with in the appropriate way.

As a former member of the military, the hon. member should know about the military justice system and respect it because he supported it for years while he was a member of the armed forces.

[National Defence, March 28th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister answered that question.

[National Defence, March 28th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, you will forgive me but if I wanted to ask for the indulgence of the House and impinge on your time, I could make an equally eloquent case which could come to the same conclusion to deal with the leader of the Reform Party.