Michel Bellehumeur

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, May 28th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, many things were said about Bill C-7. I listened to the speeches made by some Liberal members and I am very disappointed.

If there is one issue where we must avoid playing politics, and I try to avoid it myself, it is the young offenders issue. I sincerely doubt that if they have to rise to vote for this bill as they did for the motion to curtail the debate, these members will do it with great relish.

I spent 14 days doing a whirlwind tour of all Quebec's regions. I met with judges, lawyers, Crown attorneys, stakeholders, victims, persons in charge of centres for victims of crime and senior citizens. Even the Quebec Federation of Senior Citizens of some administrative regions supported the approach, not the Bloc's approach, and it was more a social than a political tour, but the purpose which was to defeat Bill C-7 proposed by the Minister of Justice and to allow Quebec to continue enforcing the Young Offenders Act.

I met at least 20 organizations per region or more than 400 people. Right from the beginning I knew there was a consensus in Quebec. After the tour, it was obvious that we should not talk of consensus but of unanimity. Everyone I met unanimously said that the justice minister was on the wrong track and that by wanting to impose her own vision of things she was jeopardizing the Quebec approach, that shows beyond any reasonable doubt that we have a winning formula.

I spoke from a non-political point of view in a non-partisan way. As members know I was accompanied by Marc Beaupré, the young and talented actor who played Kevin in the TV series Les Deux frères , in order to reach a segment of the population that we, as politicians, are unable to reach simply because we may enjoy the credibility we justly deserve. Our credibility among people in general is not very high. This actor was very surprised to see that nobody was in favour of the minister's legislation.

I do not understand Quebec Liberal members who rise to say the opposite of what their constituents are saying. Earlier as I was listening to the speech by the member for Beauharnois—Salaberry—I do not want to play politics—I was wondering if he was on the same planet as I was.

I am convinced he was simply reading from a speech prepared for him and which he was delivering without being aware of its content. He went as far as making light of his Liberal friends in the national assembly who unanimously voted with the government in favour of a motion asking the Government of Canada for a special allowance so that Quebec might continue implementing the Young Offenders Act. He even ridiculed his colleagues in the national assembly saying that they did not know what they were doing. Imagine that.

Frankly I realize that the justice minister might have made commitments to her constituents in western Canada who, under the influence of the Canadian Alliance and the right wing movement in Canada, are asking for a much more punitive legislation to deal with young offenders. Coming from Alberta, the minister undoubtedly made such a commitment.

I do not want to bring up politics but the minister can, if she wants to, answer all the expectations of the west as well as those of Quebec.

I have moved the only amendment which should be accepted here. The amendment we are talking about would add a couple of words to a subsection without changing the ultimate purpose of the legislation. We are totally against such an amendment.

Rotten apples will stay rotten apples, no matter what. The same is true with this bill.

That is why the only acceptable amendments, to please everybody as well as to make concessions are the two proposed by the Bloc Quebecois. According to one of those amendments the lieutenant governor in council of a province may, by order, exempt from the application of Bill C-7 a young person between 12 and 18 years of age. In such a case the Young Offenders Act would continue to apply in that province.

This would please both sides. Those who wish a stricter legislation would have Bill C-7 which will be passed and those who wish to continue enforcing the Young Offenders Act will be able to do so since one section would allow it.

Some will ask if this is legal, if it is constitutional. I would not promote something that was not. Some may have doubts and questions when it comes from me but a legal opinion was tabled in the national assembly.

Three constitutionalists, people doing law involving young people, examined these amendments or similar ones. With the decisions of the Supreme Court of Canada on the application of criminal law, on regional differences and the social aspect of criminal law, they concluded that it was legal and feasible.

The government can do it but one thing is lacking: political will. When I reached out to the Minister of Justice this morning I was sincere and am still. It is not too late. Let the minister set her bill aside. Together we will repeat the tour of Quebec I did in the past few days. She will be able to see for herself. She will hear for herself what the regional stakeholders have to say. She will see how the Young Offenders Act is applied daily. No one will support her proposed repeal of the Young Offenders Act, on the contrary.

Today I have the clear impression that the minister is in a glass bubble here in Ottawa. She is defending a bill drafted by public servants in Ottawa's fine office towers who have absolutely no idea how the Young Offenders Act is applied on a daily basis.

Today these officials have made it a personal issue. They want the bill passed at any cost, even at the risk of threatening a Quebec approach that shows how well we succeed in Quebec. We have the lowest crime rate. They want to implement it at any cost and win, as if they had something to win.

It is not too late. If the Minister of Justice and the Prime Minister are sincere when they say they want to allow Quebec to continue to enforce it, I would hope that they will act on it, that the minister will first agree to tour with me and that she will then vote in favour of the amendments we have proposed.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, May 28th, 2001]

It is all part of a whole. Everything is linked.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, May 28th, 2001]

Yes, the Liberals.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, May 28th, 2001]

That is the unanimous consensus reached by the national assembly.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, May 28th, 2001]

You're better at bridges.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, May 28th, 2001]

Oh, come on.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, May 28th, 2001]

Including the Liberals.

[Young Offenders, May 28th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I think the Prime Minister is the one reading out prepared replies. Otherwise, he would realize that no one in Quebec supports this bill, no one.

Even the national assembly, in a unanimous motion, is calling upon the Minister of Justice to have a specific system for Quebec, so that it may continue to apply the Young Offenders Act, because it gets results.

Above and beyond partisan politics, what is the Prime Minister's reply—

[Young Offenders, May 28th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I have just finished a tour that took me all over Quebec and enables me to state that there is a unanimous feeling in Quebec that Bill C-7 is a bad bill, a useless, costly and dangerous one.

Everyone, seniors, judges, victims of crime, teachers, condemn the minister's bill.

My question, a very simple one, is for the Prime Minister of Canada. Before causing irreparable harm to the Quebec approach, is the Prime Minister prepared to bow to the very broad consensus in Quebec and to allow Quebec to continue to apply the Young Offenders Act in its present form?

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, May 16th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I have listened to all the remarks since the beginning of this debate, and I would like to go back on some of the questions that have been raised.

For example, the Alliance member for Wild Rose said “I encourage Bloc members to go back and visit with people in Quebec. They will find out that they are against this and want changes to the Young Offenders Act”. The hon. member is certainly not reading the papers these days. Since Sunday, May 13, I have been on a whirlwind tour of Quebec, which has already taken me to Montreal, Laval, Bonaventure, Sept-îles, Jonquière, and Sherbrooke.

Just before coming to the House today, I gave a press conference and I met people in Hull, Gatineau, and Aylmer to discuss the Young Offenders Act and Bill C-7 of the Minister of Justice. During this tour, I met experts, but also ordinary citizens, mothers and fathers. I will meet more people, because I will be touring for five or six more days.

All these people told me the same thing: We do not want the federal government to tell us how to raise our children. We have legislation called the Young Offenders Act and if it is applied properly, that legislation gives good results.

To the hon. member wondering if I know what is going on in my province, I can say that I do. I do not claim to know everything, and that is why I keep on touring Quebec. However, I have not seen anyone who was happy with the minister's amendments. No one in Quebec wants to see the Young Offenders Act amended.

Of course, there is room for improvement. If we had more money in order to apply that legislation even better, we would get better results. The justice minister said the implementation of Bill C-7 would cost Canadian taxpayers between $200 million and $250 million. That is just for implementing Bill C-7.

If the federal government has money it does not know what to do with, here is what I say: “Do not allow yourselves the luxury of a new act that no one wants and that everyone, even in the western provinces, finds complicated; invest more money so that provinces know and implement the Young Offenders Act better”. The success of a good implementation lies in knowing the tools.

They come up with extrajudicial measures as if it were something new to Bill C-7. But the Young Offenders Act already provides for alternative measures and we have been enforcing them for a long time in Quebec. This no doubt explains why we have the lowest crime rate in Canada. The province also has the lowest recidivism rate and the lowest detention rate This may be because we enforce the law correctly.

The justice critic for the Progressive Conservative Party, the hon. member for Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, spoke highly of Quebec. He said that Quebec is more successful than any other province. This is true. He praised Quebec's approach. And government members made similar comments. Do members realize that the bill they are about to pass—and I do hope they will not pass it—, the bill the government wants us to pass will put an end to this excellent success by Quebec?

Quebec's whole approach is now jeopardized. If members do not wish to listen to me, the member for Berthier—Montcalm, hopefully they will listen to all the Quebecers who daily enforce the Young Offenders Act. This is why Quebec has such good success rates.

Members should listen to the Commission des services juridiques, the Conseil permanent de la jeunesse, the Centrale de l'enseignement, university teachers, criminologists, Jean Trépanier, a well-known expert on the issue, the Fondation québécoise pour les jeunes contrevenants, Institut Pinel, the Conférence des régies régionales de la santé, Les Centres jeunesse du Québec, defence counsel and prosecutors.

The court judges who appeared before the committee said so. Justice Michel Jasmin appeared before the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. This is not someone who knows nothing about the law. Justice Michel Jasmin is the co-ordinating judge of the Youth Court of Quebec. He came and told us that what the federal government was about to do was a mistake. We should at least listen to those individuals.

The Quebec coalition for youth justice is a group of thirty to forty agencies that enforce the Young Offenders Act on a daily basis, and it said the same thing. They told us that the problem was not the Young Offenders Act, but the way it is implemented. It has to be better enforced. But to be better enforced, this legislation needs to be better understood.

It seems to me that, as members representing ridings, as legislators in this House, before we amend the law, we should try to find out what the problem is. The problem is not the law but its enforcement. Let us work together to find a better way to enforce the law and inform the other provinces about the success achieved in Quebec.

Furthermore, the minister made some 166 amendments to the bill as it existed before the election of November 2000, in order to satisfy Quebec she says.

The government across the way refused to hear what witnesses from Quebec had to say about his proposed amendments. The government is embarrassed because it is fully aware that these amendments, as well as Bill C-7 we are now debating, are not in line with what is done in Quebec, and in fact go against everything that has been done in Quebec for at least 20 years. The government did not want to hear this. It lacked the courage to hear those individuals who enforce that law.

When I toured the province a woman told me: “Everything you said about implementing the legislation and what a teenager needs to get back on the right track is true. The good thing about the Young Offenders Act is that it takes the human factor into account. The YOA is also good for families and for parents because it gives them something to do. The legislation gives them the right to act in order to help their children get out of trouble”.

If there is one area where there is no discrimination it is youth crime. We find young offenders in poor families as well as in rich ones. No one is immune to the phenomenon.

I myself have kids. If one day because of peer pressure from friends or a street gang, or because of school or for any other reason, one of my kids or both of them stray from the path, I would prefer them to come under the Young Offenders and not the legislation the minister wants to shove down Quebec's throat because the YOA gives me, the parent, a say in what happens to my kids,

Bill C-7 contains a series of automatic responses and measures. Everything is left to the justice system. The cases are withdrawn from stakeholders who know very well how to deal with young offenders.

If their offence is serious, they will be given a pre-determined sentence while if it is not so serious, they will be given a simple warning. It will not be possible to intervene at the right moment, do the right thing, and treat young offenders properly. That is what is catastrophic and what the government does not seem to understand.

I am told that I only have one minute left. I could speak for hours on this issue because it is a subject that is close to my heart, and this has nothing to do with party politics. I met people and I will meet many more still during the tour I am doing with an excellent spokesperson, Marc Beaupré.

Marc Beaupré is not in politics precisely because he pursues social causes. He is an actor playing the role of Kevin in the series Les deux frères . He is a talented young actor who decided to join us, not the Bloc Quebecois, but all those of us who want to fight for children in Quebec.

He wants to convince the minister and the government that they are on the wrong track. He is trying to reach out to them, as we do, to make them understand.