Jean-Guy Chrétien

[The Budget, March 27th, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I have listened with great interest to my colleague, the hon. member for Waterloo—Wellington, who was of course boasting about the seventh budget of this government and of the same Minister of Finance.

As is his wont, he took advantage of the opportunity to tear a strip off all parties in this House. Of course his own party was spared, a party in which there is infighting going on at the present time. We no longer know who is governing this government, if it is the Minister of Finance, if it is the clan of the Minister of Finance, if it is the Prime Minister and his backroom boys, but the result has been that the seventh budget of the Minister of Finance has totally forgotten this country's farmers.

It is not surprising that one of them has been forced to travel thousands of kilometres to get to Parliament Hill. He made use of the means available to him to raise this government's awareness and to meet with the Prime Minister in order to establish a relationship of financial assistance, after that same government shamelessly slashed assistance to farmers. Now they are turning on the tap a bit for the health of this country's agriculture.

Another thing that displeased me in this budget is that there is nothing for people who have seasonal work or to lose their jobs. As we are well aware, close to 60% of them pay into the employment insurance fund, but when they are forced to apply for benefits, there is always one way or another to tell them “Unfortunately, you are not eligible”. There is always an hour or two missing, or they are penalized for some past action. The only help there is for these workers is that contributions will drop by 15 cents per $100 in income, for the next four years. This is a trifle.

What we are calling for is for access to employment insurance to be made more humane. When workers are in a black hole, for three weeks, sometimes three months, they find it very difficult.

I think that the member for Waterloo-Wellington does not know what it means for a couple not to have any money coming in for three weeks, for two or three months. This was something he glossed right over.

I happen to know very well that at the same time that workers' benefits were being cut, HRDC was handing out $500,000 to the big company making billions in Cornwall. The CEO told us “We applied. We were sure we would not get it. They handed it to us and we took it of course”.

Placeteco received $1.2 million to create jobs. Three disappeared, none were created, and Placeteco was saved from certain bankruptcy, and we know perfectly well that some friends had a hand in it.

In the riding—

[Supply, March 21st, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for Rimouski—Mitis for explaining so clearly the scandal that took place in the riding of Saint-Maurice, the riding of the Prime Minister who is there, across the way, with his party.

As she so rightly said, this government must at least order an independent inquiry. According to observers, this scandal might involve an amount of up to $3 billion. This is money that has allegedly been handed out here and there.

I would like to ask the member for Rimouski—Mitis if, for the benefit of all members of the House, she could explain just as clearly what happened in the riding of Rosemont, a poor riding in Montreal's east end, where a $165,000 grant was supposed to go before it drifted further east, ending up in the Prime Minister's riding.

I am asking the member for Rimouski—Mitis to give us a clear and simple explanation, like she just did.

[Supply, March 21st, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, in January I spent some time in New Brunswick, more specifically in Fredericton. I heard a lot of good things about the member for Madawaska—Restigouche, in particular in Fredericton's Daily Gleaner . He has a very good reputation in New Brunswick. I must admit that I have discovered this in his transparent and convincing speech.

As we know, happily or unhappily, New Brunswick was represented by Doug Young, who was minister of human resources development. Fortunately for all Canadians, they taught him the lesson of his life by showing him the way out. I congratulate the NDP member for Acadie—Bathurst who made him bite the dust. I hope we will not have the unpleasant surprise of seeing this man back in the House of Commons.

To get back to HRDC, we are witnessing the greatest scandal in modern times in the House of Commons. The party across the way probably has mismanaged between $1 billion and $3 billion. The Prime Minister mentioned 37 cases. There are now 19 files under investigation by the RCMP. Out of some 495 or 500 files picked at random, 37 were fraught with problems. Today, 19 cases are under investigation by the RCMP. If we examined all files thoroughly, the amount would probably be much higher than $1 billion.

Clearly, we have an opportunity to defeat the government during tonight's vote. It appears from discussions we had this morning that all opposition parties are going to vote in favour of an inquiry into HRDC. I do not expect the Liberals to do so.

I would like to ask the hon. member for Madawaska—Restigouche if he would be ready to defeat the government so that we could all look forward to sound management on behalf of all Canadians.

[Supply, March 21st, 2000]

Shame on all of you.

[Supply, March 21st, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to get back to this morning's motion. Essentially, this motion recommends “the creation of an independent public commission of inquiry”.

What happened is that HRDC's internal auditor selected 459 projects at random—somewhat like in a survey involving 1,200 people across Canada. Of these 459 projects, 80% were problematic, had not followed the normal procedure. What is worse is that 37 were extremely problematic. Of these 37, the RCMP are investigating 19 throughout Canada, three of them in the riding of Saint-Maurice, the Prime Minister's riding.

With his usual verve, the Prime Minister told us that only $250 had been misspent. Our suspicion is that, if all 11,000 projects were audited, the HRDC scandal would involve somewhere between $1 billion and $3 billion, an amount unprecedented in Canada; it is mind-boggling.

The Liberal Party has been accused of buying votes, and what happened in Saint-Maurice in 1997 clinches it. The Prime Minister literally won the election by handing out taxpayers' money and, unfortunately, this money was misused as in the case of Placeteco. This was on the news last night. It is scandalous.

I ask the member opposite to tell me how the Liberals are going to be able to refuse to create an independent commission of inquiry to look into all the projects when the vote is held at 5.30 p.m.

[Supply, March 21st, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I insist that you ask this member to withdraw his remarks. The members of the Bloc Quebecois were elected democratically without buying votes one after the other.

[Supply, March 21st, 2000]

Mr. Speaker, there is a huge scandal going on at HRDC at the moment. It is unprecedented in Canada's political history. Even in the time of the Conservatives, during the nine years when scandal followed scandal, never was a scandal worse than the one before us now at HDRC.

The minister, out of a concern for transparency, invited us to use the phone line set aside for MPs to request information. I used the line and then went through access to information because they would not give me the information on the direct line.

However, I have received two calls on a very specific matter in my riding in Thetford Mines. Barely 15 minutes ago, I was talking with Odile Cukier, who is negotiating with me as to whether or not she should give me over 200 pages, because they would contain privileged information of a confidential nature, such as an address and telephone number or a social insurance number for certain people.

Why not reveal all on the files we are asking about?

[Supply, March 20th, 2000]

Madam Speaker, since the opening of the session, after the Christmas break, on February 6, we have seen in this House that a huge scandal is going on at HRDC.

The scandal could involve between $1 billion and $3 billion. It is unprecedented. Even under the ten years of Conservative government, never did we see a scandal of this scope.

In an effort to cover it up, the minister has set up two toll free telephone lines, one for MPs and one for the public. Here is the number for the public. It is 1-888-567-5844.

There is another toll free number for members. I used this line to inquire about HRDC grants in my riding of Frontenac—Mégantic, in Thetford and in the Lac-Mégantic region.

I was told to go through HRDC's access to information office, and each request would cost me $5. Having wasted four days, I quickly filled out the required forms and paid $40 for my eight requests. I must wait 30 days before I get any answers. I suspect these answers will bring out two particular cases in the riding of Frontenac—Mégantic.

The parliamentary secretary is in the House to respond. I fully expect that she will read me an answer prepared by her officials. I am wondering if the minister is not trying to delay the provision of answers to our questions, which could lead us to uncover yet more instances of mishandling that would raise the total amount involved at HRDC well above $3 billion.

Tonight, I am accusing the Liberal government of trying to conceal the truth. I am also accusing the government of squandering taxpayers' money. I am accusing the Minister of Human Resources Development of interfering with the transparency of her department. Finally, I am accusing the government of patronage.

In the Thetford region, the granite region, HRDC funds were used for patronage. Only 42% of workers who pay EI contributions qualify for benefits if they lose their jobs or if they are seasonal workers. That money is used for patronage.

That is what happened in the riding of Saint-Maurice, the Prime Minister's riding. The government had promised to give $165,000 to create 45 jobs in the riding of Rosemont, a disadvantaged riding in Montreal's east end. What did the government do? It took this money that was supposed to go to Rosemont under the agreement the member for that riding had signed with HRDC and, without him knowing anything about it, transferred that money to the Prime Minister's riding. Is that not patronage?

What happened then? Pierre Corbeil toured plants to meet general managers and ask them for cash contributions of $10,000, $15,000, $20,000 or $25,000. No wonder beer was flowing at the convention over the week-end—

[Supply, March 20th, 2000]

The question.

[An Act To Give Effect To The Requirement For Clarity As Set Out In The Opinion Of The Supreme Court Of Canada In The Quebec Secession Reference, March 13th, 2000]

moved:

Motion No. 392

That Bill C-20 be amended by adding after line 28 on page 5 the following new clause:

“4. This Act shall come into force on October 1, 2011.”