Suzanne Tremblay

[Supply, April 18th, 1994]

I recently completed a trip across Canada. I visited all of the provincial capitals, with the exception of Charlottetown. I met with francophone minorities outside Quebec. I heard some amazing stories.

A resident of British Columbia was told that there were no bilingual stenographers in all of Canada, whereas there are at least 17 bilingual court stenographers in Montreal alone. A person was asked if he would agree to a preliminary hearing in English and was promised that the transcripts would be translated into French afterward. That person was later told that the $20,000 cost of translating the transcripts was too high. When the time came for that person to go to trial, he was told that since his preliminary hearing had been in English, then surely he was also capable of understanding trial proceedings conducted in English.

In my office, I got a lot of information and press clippings intended to show me how well French is doing outside Quebec. I picked up only four before leaving my office this morning.

In Ontario, for the school census, they are unfortunately unable to correct the form, which says that the photocopiers

cannot print on both sides. That is the reason which the ministry gave to Ontario's francophones.

In 1994, a key year for Franco-Ontarians, the Auditor General of that province criticized the Ministry of Education for not providing francophones with good services and he says that the services given to francophones are inferior. Our friend from Carleton-Gloucester is quoted here: "Deploring the lack of bilingual judges, six-year wait for civil cases in Ontario, backlog of 1400 trials".

The gem is Mr. Vastel's article, where it mentions that someone is looking for "sewers, preferably bilingual". Let me explain. In Kingston, the city where they want to relocate the military college because it is bilingual, the Employment Centre has an advertisement for a "sewer"; let me spell it out in case I do not pronounce it correctly, so that there is no ambiguity. It should be translated in French as "couseur" or "couseuse", but the advertisement says "égout"-quite a different sewer!

Another situation. I just heard someone from Saskatoon ask the Minister of Heritage a question. There is an advertisement in the Saskatoon Employment Centre for a "cook for menu in family style restaurant", which was translated "faire cuire de menus dans famille coiffée de restaurant". Those are a few gems.

To get back to something more serious, although we need to laugh a little, we will talk about bonuses. I admit that bilingualism is costly. We talked about bilingualism bonuses, for example. Do you know that such bonuses have existed since 1888? In 1888, bilingualism bonuses were established. They were $50 for any francophone civil servant who could take English dictation or for any anglophone civil servant who could take French dictation. So Canada has always wanted to recognize bilingualism with a bonus. In reality, in constant dollars, $800 is not much compared to the $50 offered in 1888 just for writing a dictation. Now they are given a bonus to be operational, so that they can respond and give service. I do not think that $800 is a lot.

If you want to make cuts in bilingualism, I do not think that is the place to do it. Training is where the cuts should be made. If you need to be bilingual for a position, you should be bilingual before you are hired and not have someone take courses and more courses and still more courses, which is very expensive. Why take a public servant from his office and send him for three months of immersion somewhere, the Château Frontenac, perhaps, for the Christmas holidays, or maybe Toronto, if he is French-speaking.

I find it inconceivable that, 25 years after the passage of the Official Languages Act, we continue to send unilingual public servants on language training at public expense. If bilingualism is a condition of employment, then they should be bilingual at the time they are hired. I am not talking about refresher or upgrading courses, which are relatively inexpensive. But to pay for the basic language training of unilingual civil servants is too expensive. We could easily save close to $96 million a year, if you count the training costs plus the program administration costs. That is no paltry amount.

I would like to call imagination into play. In a draft article which was sent to me, Professor Bouvier calls it the ignorance bonus versus the bilingualism bonus. The latter, the bonus paid to those bilingual civil servants who fulfil their duties satisfactorily, should remain. As for the other one, the ignorance bonus, we could do away with it.

According to an article published in The Ottawa Citizen , the report just produced by Mr. Goldbloom must be seen as conveying a double message, both a judgment and a warning. Why a warning? Year after year, we are reminded in that report about all that is going well and all that is going wrong in Canada. Let us face it, it is not a bed of roses for francophones outside Quebec.

When you think about ways of preserving your language, it is important to know that you can get served in your own language. I can remember back in my youth, when we went out shopping. We could safely go to Dupuis Frères knowing that we would be served in French. But beyond Saint-Laurent Street, you were sure to have to ask to be served in French because it was not automatic; they would answer you in English. We had to besiege Sainte-Catherine Street to get the restaurants to translate their menus. Is it through these little day-to-day battles that Quebec was able to assert its French and French-speaking colour more and more.

I listened carefully to the hon. member for Nanaimo who spoke first, I think, on behalf of the Reform Party, as he enumerated all the milestones, but I could not help but notice that he had major memory blanks. He systematically failed to mention any legislation passed in Quebec that favoured anglophones. He only talked about those that anglophones had trouble with, like Bill 101 and Bill 178 on signs for example. When I travelled in Canada, I saw unilingual signs everywhere except in airports.

I drove to Calgary to visit the Dinosaur Museum-the real ones- and along the way I encountered no road sign that bore anything beside directions in English, not even international symbols. The same thing last week in Newfoundland, I saw nothing but English all over the place. So, when they come and tell us that there were trials and cases were taken all the way to the United Nations because poor little English Canadians were treated badly in Quebec, give me a break. People should come and see for themselves that it is possible to live both in French and in English in Quebec. In fact, it is the only place where it is

possible. It is not possible to live in both official languages anywhere in Canada except in Quebec.

I am talking about entire provinces. Of course, in Northern Ontario there are towns that are 100 per cent French-speaking. That is true, there are some in Northern Ontario.

There are towns in New Brunswick where people can live in French even when surrounded by English. But there are others in the Prairies, in Western Canada, in the Maritimes, and if their numbers do not warrant it, they may obtain nothing. We read in the newspapers about what happened in Kingston; they may be up to 4,999, but there is still one missing; I may move there to bring that number to 5,000 so they can receive services in French.

What seems extremely important to me is to stop dreaming and realize that Canada is an English-speaking country. When one lives abroad-I lived in Portugal for ten months and whenever I said e esto Canadense, everyone would speak to me in English. Nobody thought that I could be francophone. And as I spoke French, they said, "Ah, there is some French there."

In every embassy except in Paris, we are addressed in English. Let us stop putting our heads in the sand. Canada is an English-speaking country. Why did the Trudeau government pass a law in 1969? To stop the rise of nationalism in Quebec. That is why Mr. Trudeau drafted his law in 1969. That was the only reason.

Section 23 of the 1982 Constitution Act protects the rights of French-speaking communities outside Quebec, with respect to their schools in particular, but even Supreme Court decisions were not enough to put this in practice. Mrs. Landry, the Minister of Canadian Heritage, had to give $112 million to the provinces, and I agree with our friends from the Reform Party that it costs the federal government a lot of money because the provinces do not assume their responsibilities. The provinces do not respect the Constitution and the federal government's only recourse is to give them $112 million so that they can respect their minority populations.

I think it is extremely important to realize something else. Among the many symbols we are very proud of in this country is the national anthem we still have in common, namely O Canada, which was first performed on June 24, 1980, and officially proclaimed as our national anthem on July 1, 1980. The music was composed by Calixa Lavallée and the lyrics were written by Mr. Routhier. I remember very well the debate that took place in this House, and it would be quite informative for the members who did not have the opportunity to follow that debate. I remember how difficult it was to draft the English version and even today I meet anglophones who are surprised to see that we changed the lyrics of their national anthem. It is time to set the record straight. Canada comes from Quebec. That is where Canada got its start, just like the national anthem. It should be pointed out that when each province joined the Canadian community, the majority was French-speaking. If francophones' rights had been respected from the start, we might not be where we are today.

Before I sit down, I want to remind members of one last thing, namely that belonging to a country has its price. Here, Canada decided to be bilingual. Those who find it too expensive can move to the United States. It is cheaper to live in the United States. But there is a price to pay for living in a bilingual country. It seems extremely important to me, and Quebecers are also aware that, costly as it is to be Canadian, it may be a little more expensive to be a Quebecer, but at least we will have all the tools we need to grow the way we want.

[Supply, April 18th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, I was faced with two choices. Either I refrained from saying anything at all, or I spoke from the heart. I have chosen the latter course of action.

What I have heard since the start of this debate convinces me more than ever that Quebec is doing the right thing. It is clear that Quebec has made the right choice to embark on its march to independence.

I realize that the junior member from thirty-five kilometres away will try to cut in, but since I have listened carefully almost all day to the speeches of the other members, I would ask them to extend the same courtesy to me and to refrain from commenting while I am speaking. I will be happy to field questions and comments later.

Canada's official languages are guaranteed under the Constitution. Education rights are also guaranteed under the Constitution. That is all well and good, but what about our francophone minorities outside Quebec? They are having trouble getting schools-

Mr. Speaker, would it possible for you to ask that members refrain from making comments while I have the floor?

[Publishing, April 18th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, the minister's spokesperson was still quoted as saying: "Martin participated in a meeting over the Ginn deal between Manley and Dupuy." Who is telling the truth? Bill Milliken, the spokesperson, or the minister?

[Publishing, April 18th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. The issue of MacLean's magazine published today contains new revelations on the Ginn Publishing deal, this time implicating the current Minister of Finance.

It says that the minister participated in a meeting with his colleagues from Industry and Heritage before the government authorized the sale of Ginn Publishing. The minister, through his Nellmart Ltd. holding, owns three cinemas in Vancouver and leases them to Famous Players, a Canadian subsidiary of Paramount Communications.

Does the Minister of Finance confirm that he participated in the meeting over this deal with his colleagues from Heritage and Industry on February 16, two days before the government authorized the sale of Ginn Publishing to Paramount, even

though the minister has direct business links with Famous Players, a Paramount subsidiary?

[Canadian Museum Of Nature, April 15th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, can the minister confirm that the museum director is not waiting for the Auditor General and has already hired a firm to conduct an investigation?

[Canadian Museum Of Nature, April 15th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage. In answer to questions from the Official Opposition during committee hearings, the Director of the Canadian Museum of Nature acknowledged that the museum suffered from serious mismanagement. Disturbing facts, especially concerning the awarding and managing of contracts for consultants and the hiring of museum executives, were confirmed in the committee.

In view of the seriousness of these disturbing examples of mismanagement, is the minister ready to place the museum under administrative supervision and allow the committee to proceed with an in-depth review of the museum's management?

[Budget Implementation Act, 1994, April 14th, 1994]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to participate this afternoon in the debate on Bill C-17, An Act to amend certain statutes to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 22, 1994. If we read the explanatory notes, we see that this bill deals with several issues and I would like to mention those that interest me the most, namely the wage freeze, the CBC, of course, and unemployment insurance. I will touch on these issues in my short speech.

This morning while listening to the debates because I was on today, I heard a member opposite give this bill 98 out of one hundred. I have the impression that we did not read the same bill. Although some sections are interesting-we cannot say, even if we are in opposition, that everything is bad-I would find it very hard to give such a high mark to this bill. True, when I was a teacher I had a reputation for giving low marks, but I still learned to read documents and assess their contents.

Wages are frozen for another two years. This time, they add insult to injury by suspending pay increment increases, which is worse as it will reduce even more the purchasing power of all public servants and all those targeted by this bill. I did not take any economics classes but, in my opinion, the more people's purchasing power is reduced, the slower the economy recovers. That is my impression, in any case.

So I do not see how this measure will put people back to work. The government is always talking about job creation. I would very much like to have, outside the Parliament buildings, a thermometer that would allow us to see every morning the number of jobs created by this government. We are used to red mercury, but we would probably see the thermometer dip to the freezing point quite often, without rising again because lost jobs would also be recorded. It would be hard to get the mercury to rise. The exercise could be extremely interesting, given how the government side crows over that project saying it will create 40,000 jobs. They want people to believe them, but they can never tell us how many jobs were really created the day before.

In my region, I hear people say: "Yes, three jobs were created, but yesterday eight jobs were lost. We are still five jobs short, even if we have three new jobs today." I think they should stop trying to convince people that so many jobs have been created. If there were that many new jobs, we would not have such high unemployment levels. This is self-evident, I would say.

With the wage and pay increment freeze, how will the pay equity problem which affects mainly women be resolved? Exceptional measures were adopted to provide for the Civilian Reduction Program. Here again, this could have been handled differently. We could have said: "O.K. We will freeze the pay increments and wages, but at the same time we will resolve the pay equity problem." That would have been a positive measure to take in order to revitalize the economy, since a good segment of the population would have regained some of its purchasing power, which it does not have because of a kind of discrimination that is allowed to go on in the federal system. By the way, the Quebec government was able to put an end to this kind of discrimination, thanks to the settlement it reached with the central labour bodies. In my mind, that would have been a very positive measure to take, but they blew it!

The first time I spoke on the budget, I mentioned that a lot of the workers in my riding have seasonal jobs. Fortunately for all of us and also for the Japanese it would seem, crab fishing has resumed. Some people will now leave the unemployment lines and get back to work. This will make the unemployment rate go up and down. And it is from these monthly figures, which do not reflect the true situation, at least from my point of view, that we are going to decide how many weeks of benefits people will be entitled to or what percentage they will receive, and so on.

So, we are using a measure which is arbitrary and sometimes far-fetched, because if you take the overall number of people fit for work who are between the age of 18 and 55 and compare this real number to the famous rate we hear about all the time, you would be quite surprised.

Now, daycare was mentioned in the red book. But, it was announced that no money would bet set aside in this year's budget for daycare. So, we were not to expect a miracle, because this party only does was it promised to do. Moreover, daycare subsidies were linked to the GDP. However, we do expect families to take care of their children, whether the GDP is rising or over 3 per cent. To my way of thinking, it is important that children be taken care of, whether the gross domestic product stands at 3 per cent, 2 per cent, or 1 per cent. It seems to me that, especially in this International Year of the Family, this shows a severe lack of vision and long-term planning on the part of the government.

So, when it comes to job creation, if we look at Heritage Canada, which is, as you know, my favourite department, we find that the budget of the National Film Board was reduced by $600,000. Why? To prevent independent directors from making movies. They create jobs but we cut there too. We heard this afternoon and yesterday about francophones outside Quebec. When we cut what is set aside for francophones outside Quebec by 5 per cent, we cut jobs. They cannot afford to keep their employees. Thanks to this measure, francophone organizations outside Quebec will undoubtedly disappear and very soon only anglophone members will represent Canada in this House. There will not be francophone members from Canada any more.

So, in my mind, this is also a serious problem. This department is always cutting jobs. In the case of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, this great agency which receives $1.2 or $1.3 billion yearly from the government, it has been known for a long time that CBC has a major problem, that is a structural loss of revenue.

In 1990, it was decided to cut the fat and to get rid of the regions so that CBC would have the dough it needed to solve its problems. Madam Speaker, the figures are astounding. This year, that is in 1993-94, CBC will have a $41 million deficit that will be covered by the staff pension fund surplus. Next year, the estimated $31 million deficit will be met the same way.

I can go on and on. In 1998-99, the deficit is going to reach $178 million. To top it all, CBC was just given authority to borrow $25 million in order to unfairly compete against private corporations and buy the broadcasting rights for the Atlanta Games at a cost of $28 million. Obviously, there is something wrong with that. This is a major problem. Assistance to athletes is cut, but we are going to support the Atlanta Games by paying two and a half times more for the broadcasting rights than CTV or Tele-Metropole were ready to pay.

[Francophone Minorities Outside Quebec, April 14th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, my question is quite simple. Is the Prime Minister prepared to make a commitment in this House that he will reverse the budget cuts affecting francophones outside Quebec? That is what people are asking. If he really wants to help francophones, he should stop cutting their funding.

[Francophone Minorities Outside Quebec, April 14th, 1994]

If the Prime Minister thinks it is our fault, he is wrong, and the statement he made yesterday in the House was a disgrace, coming from a Prime Minister. If he has any credibility-

[Francophone Minorities Outside Quebec, April 14th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Prime Minister. The sovereignist option for Quebec includes a firm commitment to recognize and protect the historic rights of Quebec's anglophone minority and to enshrine those rights in the Constitution of a sovereign Quebec. Yesterday in the House, in a disturbing and, I would say, deplorable statement, the Prime Minister mentioned the possibility that francophone minorities outside Quebec would be denied their rights, should Quebec become a sovereign nation.