Mr. Speaker, for the benefit of Canadians who are watching this debate on television, we are dealing with amendment at report stage of deliberations. That means the bill has gone to committee and was returned to the House with recommendations. We are now debating the recommendations from the various parties to alter the bill. These changes are grouped in blocks for ease of voting and also to ensure that in our speeches we address the topic at hand.
The group of amendments we are speaking to now has to do with maintenance and a grid which was established by the federal government. For instance, someone who is living in Alberta and has an income of $35,000, with one child, would be paying $314 per month; $520 for two children; $685 for three; $820 for four children, and so on. It established a guideline, which begs the question that if that is the minimum payment, what is the maximum. There are no maximums; there are merely minimum payment guidelines.
The guidelines vary from province to province. They do not vary a great deal, but they do vary. Some of these amendments speak to the variance.
However, I would like to speak in general terms to the notion of a guideline and what is likely going to happen in the case of the strict application of guidelines. I would like to ask whether the guidelines are going to have the initial beneficial intent.
When the guidelines were first introduced I thought they were a good idea. Many members know through previous debates that I have some experience in these matters. It is not something I am proud of but I have some considerable experience. It has been my
experience that no amount of legislation will ever replace common sense. If parents are divorcing, are bitter and fighting, no amount of legislation will impose common sense on them.
We cannot accomplish through legislation what cannot be done through goodwill on the part of both parents and extended families.
I thought the notion of guidelines was not a bad idea. I was quite surprised when I investigated this further, particularly in my constituency when I held a town hall meeting attended by approximately 200 people. The new Divorce Act was a central part of that meeting. After having conducted a third party independent poll by tele-research I was amazed to find that although I thought it was a good idea, the establishment of guidelines was not widely appreciated by people as being a good idea. As I reflected on it I realized that our court system and the judges involved in the court system are there for good reason. We have trust and we have respect for our court system.
Judges in cases of family disputes are able to weigh all of the factors having anything to do with custody or with maintenance payments. Using the wisdom of Solomon, judges are able to look at every situation as a distinct situation and not apply a common rule or a broad brush which will affect everyone in the same way. It is this removal of informed advice that upsets most people. It results in the suggestion that perhaps a guideline is not a particularly good thing.
In the constituency of Edmonton Southwest members would be interested to know that fully 75 per cent of the people polled feel judges should retain some discretion over the terms of child support. Only 9 per cent disagree and the remainder are undecided. Eighty-seven per cent say that the financial resources of the custodial parent should be considered when setting the level of child support. The guidelines make no mention whatsoever of the financial condition of custodial parents. What happens is that the custodial parent could end up being in a vastly superior financial position as a result of the divorce, for whatever reason, and yet the non-custodial parent is forced to pay a disproportionate amount of his or her income based solely on the condition that they are no longer married.
It is the removal of the judicial discretion which concerns most Canadians.
The town hall meeting brought up a particularly poignant and interesting consideration. Why is it in this legislation that we are forcing divorced parents to have a legal responsibility to children that they do not have before they are divorced? Think about that. This legislation will force non-custodial parents to continue to pay after the age of majority for such things as schooling. I am sure the vast majority of people would do it anyway, but we do not force intact families to pay for anything, let alone pay for anything after the age of majority.
Why should there be one set of rules for children of divorced parents and another set of rules for children of non-divorced parents?
A group in Edmonton, the Equitable Child Maintenance and Access Society, has put together a number of particularly good papers concerning rearing children when their parents have divorced. The central argument that the group brings to the case is just because parents divorce does not mean they divorce themselves from their children. It is the litigation system which creates and causes more problems than were there in the first place.
We should have a default position not of custody one way or the other but joint custody and co-parenting responsibilities. Responsibilities for nurturing children do not end at divorce; the responsibility for nurturing children remains constant. It also remains a responsibility, an obligation and an opportunity for the extended family.
The question of fair access and maintenance support are not mutually exclusive. They are inextricably bound to each other. People who do not have fair access to their children do not feel a moral justification for paying maintenance. We cannot unlink the two and say that if people are not being afforded access to their children why should they feel the obligation in one direction only to make maintenance payments. Regardless of the problems people have in their domestic relationship, their obligation to their children continues and should not be part of it. The reality however is as human beings, it is part of it so it must be considered.
As companion legislation to the responsibility to pay and as companion legislation to the fact that we would deny people passports or garnishee their wages, we must also have legislation that would enforce judgments of the court regarding access. At this time it is entirely in one direction.
We must as a society understand the absolutely critical role of nurturing children. This critical role extends beyond marriage and divorce; it extends beyond the mother and father.
I will read from The Economist dated September 28, a short paragraph which describes the reason for nurturing: ``Men tend to commit most crimes. In America they commit 81 per cent of all crimes and 87 per cent of violent crimes. Adolescent boys are the most volatile and violent of all. Those under 24 are responsible for half of America's violent crimes. Those under 18 commit one-quarter''.