Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak on Bill C-67 on behalf of the Reform Party. After initially reading Bill C-67, reviewing it, reading it one more time and reviewing it again, I thought it was necessary to put a face to the word veterans. I did not have to go very far to put a face to that particular group of people.
As a matter of fact, even in the Chamber we see constables walking around doing their duties. Often we see medals on their chests from campaigns of yesteryear. It is good to know that these people have served our country in that way.
In my community of Summerland in the Okanagan I looked around to see if I could find some examples of veterans. Again I did not have to go very far. Steve Dudson comes to mind, the gentleman who served as dominion president of the Royal Canadian Legion in Ottawa. He is still very active in the local legion in Summerland.
Other names also came to mind such as Mr. Ed Lanfdale who served in World War II. He is very active with the Kiwanis Club in Summerland and is involved in all kinds of fund raising activities for worthwhile groups and organizations in the Okanagan. Also there is Don Bowen. I cannot forget about him because he served under me at the cadet squadron in Summerland. He was a Korean war veteran. He is still wearing a uniform today and serving his community by helping out the cadet program in Summerland.
Then I looked to my own family and I did not have to look very far to find veterans. I go back to my grandfathers who both served in World War II, my uncle who served in Korea, and several other family members. Some were distant but had names like Donnan, Killipf and McFadzen. All these are names of people in my family who served for their country and are veterans.
It made me very proud that one thing these people seemed to have in common even today, although we are far away from war in this country, is that they are still serving their country. This made me very proud as a Canadian to know that our veterans who once served for their country still continue to serve our great nation in one form or another today.
The current situation with respect to veterans and their families is nothing short of appalling. Tens of thousands of men and women have risked their lives for this nation. Yet, in their later years when they turned to the Department of Veterans Affairs for disability pensions, they ran up against a bureaucratic nightmare. Before many make it through this quagmire they have passed on without being fairly compensated. Veterans must wonder why the country they served so valiantly now serves them with such contempt.
I want all my colleagues in the House to consider the following figures. The average turnaround time for veterans who apply for benefits is 18 to 20 months. That is at the first level. Due to the fact that the benefit of the doubt clause has not been appropriately applied only 30 per cent of cases are accepted. That is almost two years for veterans who are currently at the average age of 73 years old.
On the advice of their independent advocates many appeal their cases, and this can take up to three years. Of those who appeal, 70 per cent end up receiving benefits and many may only receive a portion of the expected entitlements. This situation is unacceptable.
We are making thousands of veterans in their advanced years wait almost five years to receive benefits. Currently there is a backlog of 12,500 cases and 10,000 more veterans are expected to apply for benefits this year.
After being chastised by the subcommittee on veterans affairs the government promised to act on behalf of veterans to correct this shameful situation. Bill C-67 is the government's answer.
I have been told the main intent of this piece of legislation is to cut the existing turnaround time for veterans' disability pensions by up to half without affecting veterans' benefits or their appeal rights. I have been assured by the minister and the deputy minister that the department will achieve their stated goal within two years.
My main concern, however, has been to determine whether such an objective is feasible without adversely affecting the rights and benefits of veterans.
For well over one month now I have been deliberating over this piece of legislation. During this time I have consulted with a number of veterans and veterans' organizations. After careful consideration and in the best interests of all Canadian veterans I must come out in opposition to Bill C-67. The bill adversely affects the rights and the benefits of veterans.
Even though the Liberal government claims to have the best interest of veterans in mind, this piece of legislation was drafted and approved by cabinet without consulting veterans' groups. This lack of consultation with the grassroots was particularly ominous given the fact that after cabinet approval the government informed groups that were more favourable to the proposals first.
The National Council of Veterans was informed of the department's proposals in March 1994, while the Royal Canadian Legion, the army, navy and air force veterans were not consulted until the summer of 1994. Why this unacceptable disparity?
It is also disturbing to note that Bill C-67 was not based on the advice of veterans but on the advice of two management consulting firms. This lack of consultation with grassroots veterans is evident throughout this piece of legislation.
One of my prime concerns is that Bill C-67 removes the right of the veterans to have their first level application prepared by the Bureau of Pensions Advocates. Under the current system each veteran has the application prepared by a trained, independent lawyer. In addition each veteran enjoys solicitor-client privilege. There will be reference to solicitor-client privilege throughout this speech because I find it very important.
However, the government claims that the use of the bureau by the veterans at the first level is too time consuming and is largely responsible for the 18 to 20 month turnaround. Yet if we turn to page 50 of the report "Keeping the Faith into the Future" we find the breakdown of the time. The report from the Senate committee states that the time required to process a claim at the first level in the department, the Department of Veterans Affairs, was 11 to 13 months and only 5 months with the bureau.
In my own investigations I found that most of the time it was two months with the bureau. One must also ask: if the bureau overprepares its cases, why are 70 per cent of them turned down at the first level?
The removal of the Bureau of Pensions Advocates from the first level process is ominous for a number of reasons. First, the veteran is now reliant upon the department to prepare and adjudicate his or her first level decision. This is not only a conflict of interest but it removes the veteran's right of that solicitor-client privilege. The importance of the solicitor-client privilege cannot be understated.
In the subcommittee report on veterans affairs, "Keeping the Faith", Mrs. F. L. Crummer, a witness who has been battling for six years with the department, most eloquently states the need for solicitor-client privilege. She states:
An important consideration which must not be forgotten is the average age and education level of the clients serviced by the bureau and the fact that most of them know little or nothing about how the system operates. Their link with the system is their advocate, the person in whom they place their trust.
The solicitor-client privilege enshrined in the statute is one of the inherent strengths of the bureau and of the pension act. It forms the basis for the trust clients place in their advocate.
She goes on to say:
Changes could place clients in jeopardy and destroy their trust not only in their advocate but ultimately in the system itself-. No changes should even be contemplated to section 19 of the act which establishes the independence of the Bureau of Pensions Advocates. I feel it must remain independent of the department in order to properly service veterans and dependants.
I would like to remind this House that my primary concern is to speed up the process without taking anything away from our veterans.
Another concern I have with respect to removing the bureau from the first level decision making process is that veterans will be dealing directly with the department whose employees have been known to not have the best attitude. Mr. Cliff Chadderton, chairman of the National Council of Veterans Associations, recently stated:
The problems which occurred in regard to the old legislation were, in our view, largely ones which might be attributed to either attitude, lack of knowledge or possibly incompetence. In other words, regardless of the framework of the new legislation the results will depend upon the manner in which the administration thereof is carried out-. The ability to reduce delays in adjudication will depend upon the will of the administrators to make the system work.
Knowing that an attitude problem exists within the department, I find it incomprehensible that the department believes it can offer veterans a better service than the Bureau of Pensions Advocates. What veterans face at the first level could be an indifferent or incompetent pension officer who lacked the will or the knowledge to inform veterans to pursue benefits to which they are entitled.
I am also concerned that veterans may not be informed they are able to apply for an appeal of the department's decision. Even if the pension officer has the best intentions, I am not confident that applications they fill out will be as good as that of the Bureau of Pensions Advocates.
Let us examine once again the people we are dealing with here. A 73-year old man or woman entering the Department of Veterans Affairs used to go to the bureau and now they will approach a counter-I am told that one of the biggest disability claims is for hearing loss-and be instructed that they must fill out the draft of the application form, a 10-page complicated application form for their disability pension. Most elderly veterans who find dealing with bureaucracy extremely stressful would also find it too complicated to fill out.
Considering the fact that the veteran will be assisted by a departmental pension officer without the solicitor-client privilege, I am concerned that the application may also form an entrapment whereby the veteran may mistakenly commit incorrect information that is official on his record. The end result would be a fast rate of first level rejections.
I foresee another difficulty with the bureau being removed from the first level. Under Bill C-67 the size of the bureaucracy will increase and the minister will get more power to influence the department's internal affairs. Under these proposals the minister may have undue influence over the whole decision making process and the quality of service or the rate of acceptance.
Departmental employees will be vulnerable to receiving direction which could deter them from encouraging veterans to pursue benefits and services to which they are entitled. They will also be under pressure to take part in fiscal restraint. Even an offhanded remark by the minister could affect the way his staff deals with veterans.
I would like to remind this House that my primary concern is to ensure that the process is speeded up without taking anything away from veterans. With the current rejection rate of 70 per cent and an 18 to 20 month waiting period, I have no confidence that the removal of the bureau from the first level will speed up the process and improve the acceptance ratio. In fact advocacy will suffer from the lack of continuity.
Currently an advocate from the bureau will deal with a veteran from the first level to the review, to the appeal stages, ensuring that the advocate is familiar with the merits of the client's case. Under the proposed system the pension officer, after the first level, will have no mandate to be involved in the case whatsoever.
The case will be turned over to the bureau lawyer, who will be unfamiliar with the case at that point in time. It will be passed on to him and in my opinion that will cause further delay. He will be unable to properly advise the veteran on the merits of his appeal until after some time considering his application. At this point I must ask a number of important questions.
First, how can veterans believe that the counsellor is acting on their behalf and that the information they give, which is in confidence, will not be used against them when the department is also adjudicating the decision?
Second, who exactly will adjudicate decisions at the first level and how will they be trained?
Third, how will the removal of the Bureau of Pensions Advocates from the first level decision speed up the decision making process when currently the initial application at the bureau level is such a small part of the delay? The delay is in the department, not with the bureau.
Fourth, will a fast rejection rate at the first level lead to even more congestion at the appeal level?
Fifth, given the fact that the government promises to halve the backlog within two years, where exactly will the promised savings in time be made?
A second aspect of this piece of legislation that concerns me is the proposal to join the BPA, the Bureau of Pensions Advocates, to the department. Again, I am concerned about the chances of conflict of interest arising and the lack of solicitor-client privilege.
With the bureau restricted to hearing appeals and as a part of the department, I feel that the bureau may no longer provide the objective, expert, independent advice which it currently offers. As departmental employees they may become party to any cost cutting or ratios alluded to by the minister because they will now be answerable to superiors within the department. I fail to see how this will serve the best interests of the veterans.
A third aspect of this legislation which concerns me is the merging of the Canadian Pension Commission with the Veterans Appeal Board. From my research I have determined that currently the pension commission has a much more restrictive view of what constitutes a disability than does the Veterans Appeal Board. However, when working independently they provide a system of checks and balances.
The proposed amalgamation of the boards could see the more liberal policy of the Veterans Appeal Board watered down, which would adversely affect veterans rights and benefits. This would not be acceptable to me or to the Reform Party.
In addition, I am concerned that the proposed veterans review and appeal board will not examine base their examination of each review and appeal on the merits of each case. Rather it would decide whether the department followed its own stated policy and procedure. This would be a further erosion of veterans rights and benefits.
A fourth aspect of concern is the proposal that the review panel in clause 23, the appeal panel in clause 32, the minister in clause 82, be given the right on their own motion to reconsider a
decision they have made and amend or rescind that decision if it determines that an error was made with respect to any finding or fact or interpretation of any law.
This power is unprecedented. In court one cannot be tried for the same crime twice after sentencing. This is not due process. In fact I wonder if this is even constitutional.
When I met with the deputy minister to discuss this bill, he assured me there was no need to worry about apparent conflict of interest, lack of client-solicitor privilege or attitude among the department employees. He argued that veterans will be given the benefit of the doubt at all levels of decision making.
How can I possibly be confident that the department will apply the benefit of the doubt when it has not been used liberally in the past? The benefit of the doubt was given to adjudicators under the Pension Act and the Veterans Appeal Board Act to improve the odds of veterans receiving early acceptance.
The commissioners and members of the Veterans Appeal Board were, as stated in the act, to bend in favour of the applicant. Yet in practice this does not happen. As pointed out in the subcommittee on veterans affairs report, the commission did not apply the benefit of the doubt but rather rubber stamped the advice of the pensions medical advisory.
Why now should the department be trusted to apply the benefit of the doubt? No wonder the Bureau of Pensions Advocates over prepares cases.
I would like to sum up my remarks by stating that Canada and Canadians have a legal obligation under the Pension Act to pay compensation for death and disability relating to military service. In addition to the legal obligation I feel that we also have a moral obligation to support veterans in a reliable and timely manner.
I understand the government is trying to rush this bill through the House. I have numerous reservations about the effect of this bill.
The Royal Canadian Legion which represents 240,000 veterans also has numerous concerns. I just received a letter from the dominion president the other day in which he lays out many of the concerns. He states: "In light of these concerns, the Royal Canadian Legion considers it to be most important for the parliamentary committee to deal with and resolve the concerns before endorsing the legislation. At the same time, it is recognized that there is a need to move quickly. The Royal Canadian Legion stands ready to contribute to the process".
In conclusion, I would like to read once again from "Keeping the Faith: Into the Future". I would like to commend the people who sat on that committee, particularly the Hon. Jack Marshall who has recently retired. It is a superb piece of work.
On page 85, Prime Minister Sir Robert Borden articulated Canada's obligation to veterans when he addressed the soldiers about to depart for the Battle of Vimy Ridge in 1917.
"You can go into action assured of this and as the head of government I give you this assurance, that you need to have no fear that the government and the country will fail to show you just appreciation for your service to the country in what you are about to do and what you have already done. The government and the country will consider it their duty to provide to the returned men its just and due appreciation of the inestimable value of the services rendered to the country and empire and that no man, whether he goes back or whether he remains in Flanders, will have just cause to reproach the government for having broken faith with the men who won and the men who died".