Marcel Massé

[Pensions, April 29th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, once again, the government has pension plans that provide benefits to employees. These benefits are set out in law. The government is giving employees their benefits under the law. Employees have never absorbed any deficits, and therefore the surpluses do not belong to them.

One of the primary indications of the supreme court's thinking is a case involving the Province of Quebec, which availed itself of the surpluses in an insurance fund. The supreme court indicated the surpluses belonged to the province.

[Pensions, April 29th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the hon. member is bringing up a point that is so important. However, he misunderstands the issue. What we are doing with the $30 billion is giving it back to taxpayers.

I will repeat this because it seems hard for the other side to understand. It is really reducing the debt by giving the money back to taxpayers. That is what it is doing. We are giving it back to the taxpayers because it belongs to taxpayers.

[Pensions, April 29th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I think the proof that members of the Reform Party know they are denying and disregarding the rights of taxpayers is that they find they have to defend themselves in their questions.

If we were not right, why would they have to defend themselves like this? They defend themselves because they have been caught red-handed denying the rights of taxpayers.

[Pensions, April 29th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, I keep wondering what the representatives of the Reform Party do with the rights of taxpayers. It was elected, it tells us, to defend the rights of taxpayers.

In this case, the surplus belongs to taxpayers because they bore all the risk. Why do members of the Reform Party, against the lawyers, the accountants, the auditor general and the editorialist of the Edmonton Journal , keep denying the rights of taxpayers?

[Pensions, April 28th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, this is the party that tried to delay needed legislation for six months. Obviously we have to question whether its members have the interests of the taxpayers at heart.

We have at heart the interests of the taxpayers. We are giving the civil servants every benefit that is guaranteed in the act. We want to give back to Canadian taxpayers the $30 billion that is due to them.

[Pensions, April 28th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, a sufficient amount of time was taken to fully discuss this.

I would remind the official opposition members that they are the ones who introduced dilatory discussion for the hours that they had. Obviously they did not need all that time.

What is important is that we have a good bill that gives back to taxpayers what is theirs.

[Pensions, April 27th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, once again, this question has been debated for months and months. It has been known. We have discussed it with the unions. We have been at the same table. They have all the information.

In this case the question is very clear. The civil servants have been given all the benefits that are in the law. None of them have been taken away from them. The government continues to guarantee them by law. The surplus, once again, has been paid for by the taxpayers. It belongs to the taxpayers. It should be returned to the taxpayers.

[Pensions, April 27th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-78 guarantees to public servants and continues to guarantee to them all the benefits they have been guaranteed before. None of these benefits are affected except that the number of benefits are increased.

In the past, public servants have had absolutely no responsibility for the funding of the plan. It is the taxpayers who have taken all the risks. It is the taxpayers who have funded all the deficits. It follows that it is the taxpayers who deserve the surplus.

[Pensions, April 27th, 1999]

Mr. Speaker, those affected have been expressing their concerns for at least a year. We have been negotiating in particular the issue of joint management of the pension plans with them. The employee representatives have been quite aware of the issues for months and months. We have discussed with them. We have laid out the issues in front of them.

I think what we have in Bill C-78 is something that is in the interests of public servants and in the interests of taxpayers.

[Questions On The Order Paper, April 26th, 1999]

Annually, the Government of Canada establishes allowances as it deems necessary to present fairly the financial position of the government and the financial results of its operations for the year. Specific allowances are not disclosed as they may be prejudicial to court proceedings or negotiating contexts.