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Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was quebec.

Last in Parliament November 2009, as Bloc MP for Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup (Québec)

Won his last election, in 2008, with 46% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Business of Supply March 31st, 2008

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question.

It is not by happenstance or a lack of knowledge about how the economy works. Personally, I think this is the result of deliberate action on the part of the government, of its decision to develop the right-wing American model. This means lowering taxes, having dwindling financial means, no longer having the means to fund social security and other public programs, which means they have to be eliminated, and growing the gap between the haves and the have-nots.

I would like to share an example from my riding concerning the latest one-percentage point cut to the GST. Does anyone really believe that, in a village of 1,000 people, that decrease would give the community another important economic tool? Could a much better balance not have been struck by giving our manufacturers a better tax arrangement, by giving them the means to engage in research and development, for example, through refundable tax credits? That is how jobs can be saved. In a small village of 2,000 or 3,000 people, a business that is given a boost of that nature could offer a competitive product, remain on the market and continue to create jobs.

No. The government decided that, at the end of the year, even with a very good national debt to GDP ratio, it would pay down the debt with the $10 billion surplus. This was of no help at all to the local economies of our communities.

In the medium term, we absolutely must put an end to this practice. The government must understand that it is not the right thing to do. If the government continues to head for disaster, all opposition parties must derail it and fight it in this House, go to the polls and ask the citizens of Quebec and Canada what kind of government they want. Do they want a government that will help them to build prosperity or a government that considers itself to be a spectator and takes no responsibility for organizing society in order to create this wealth? Unfortunately, at present we have this type of inaction by the Conservative government.

Business of Supply March 31st, 2008

Mr. Speaker, I would like to reread the motion we are debating here today. Basically, it is rather general in nature:

That this House has confidence in the economic vitality of the province of Ontario and calls upon the Government of Canada to work cooperatively with the governments of all provinces and territories to assure that the prosperity and well-being of Canadians is maintained and enhanced.

This really is just wishful thinking. I would have much preferred that by this time, an election would have been called, considering the disastrous budget presented by the Conservatives. The public could then have passed judgment on this government, which, instead of building prosperity with employers, employees and leaders, decided simply to play the non-intervention rule. They do nothing. They let the free market reign, and if that causes certain communities to fall apart, particularly in the forestry sector and in single industry towns, that is not a problem; it is how the market works.

That is the Conservatives' rule and, ultimately, the entire right-wing American model, which states that the government has no responsibility when it comes to the economy. It must simply leave the market alone and collect the surplus. They tell themselves that, in any case, this allows businesses to employ workers who cost less and, therefore, to find people who will work for lower pay.

And that is the choice that the Conservative government has made. Obviously, if the Liberals had stood in the House to vote against the budget, we would be in an election and citizens would be able to judge the government.

Today, the Liberal motion gives us an opportunity to explore the situation and to tell the public just how badly the Conservative government has shirked its responsibilities. It decided that it did not want to build prosperity and that it would leave things to the economic stakeholders. Consumerism has been encouraged as the solution to everything. But when the GST is reduced by 1%, this money is put in peoples' pockets and they are all encouraged to buy products made in China, we are not lending any credibility to our economy. Wages have gone down. Now people work in warehouses instead of factories, and they are paid $8 an hour instead of $15. The net result is an increase in the gap between the rich and the poor. This is what the Conservatives have achieved.

However, a few weeks ago on November 13, the member for Trois-Rivières, on behalf of the Bloc Québécois, presented the following substantial motion:

—immediately establish a series of measures to help the manufacturing and forestry sectors hard hit by the rising dollar and increased competition from new players in the field of low-cost mass production, specifically including a program to support businesses that wish to update their production facilities, a series of investments and tax measures to support research and development in the industry, the re-establishment of an economic diversification program for forestry regions similar to the one that the Conservatives abolished, a review of the trade laws to better protect our companies against unfair competition, and better financial support of workers affected by the crisis in the manufacturing sector.

This was a substantial motion. The government could have chosen to take action and use the surpluses of the current fiscal year—today, March 31, is effectively the last day of the fiscal year—for that purpose. Nonetheless, the federal government did not want to use a considerable amount of the $10 billion surplus accumulated over the past year. These surpluses are not the result of the government's action, but come from the surplus in taxes paid by Quebec and Canadian taxpayers to the federal government. At the beginning of the year, the government knowingly set objectives too low, which is how it ended up with a $10 billion surplus.

But now, entire communities are telling us—whether in the Standing Committee on Finance or the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology or in various other sectors—that they are at the end of their rope. People from the manufacturing sector, entrepreneurs, manufacturers and exporters, labour unions, and the mayors of the communities involved have come to the Standing Committee on Finance to tell us, together and collectively, that the federal government has to go back to the drawing board.

We passed a motion to that effect in the Standing Committee on Finance. We forwarded it to the Conservative government. Last week, the Bloc Québécois suggested that an immediate payment of $7 billion out of the $10 billion surplus be made to the trust fund in order to stimulate our economy and allow a number of regions in Quebec, Ontario and other provinces to boost their economies.

The current strategy of allowing market forces to prevail has a very negative impact on settlement patterns and the development of rural communities. For this reason, the current government's practice is unacceptable. The Liberal motion at least allows us to focus on these aspects once again.

For example, the manufacturing sector is vital to Quebec. It represents 536,000 jobs with total wages of $22 billion, accounting for 17% of employment in 2005, almost 21% of earned income—almost three times as significant as in Alberta—and 90% of Quebec's international exports. Manufacturing deliveries represent 59% of Quebec's gross domestic product. That makes it a very important component of our economy.

We have seen that, in this regard, the federal government has decided to not intervene and to play the ostrich by putting its head in the sand—or rather in the oil sands—and stating that Canada's economy is generally doing well. In fact, we are selling a lot of energy abroad. However, we are no longer creating jobs in the manufacturing sector. Things are not so bad; we can continue on our merry way.

However, we are coming to realize that the systematic deconstruction of the manufacturing sectors will not be reversible if the Conservative government continues in this direction. That is why elections should have been called. I would have liked to have seen the Conservative candidates meet the voters, the factory workers, and explain to them that they preferred to allocate $10 billion of the surplus to the debt rather than using at least half, or $7 billion, to stimulate the economy.

In my riding, the forestry sector is the lifeblood of some communities. There are some very solid, strong companies that made it through the first wave of closures and believed they could survive. Today, entire communities are grappling with closures for three, four or five months of the year. People are beginning to wonder if, in the end, they will have enough employment insurance benefits, if they will have a cheque that will be enough to make ends meet and support their family.

People aged 56, 58 or 60, who cannot easily retrain for another job and who are doing their best in that respect, are watching the federal government use $10 billion from the surplus to reduce the debt. Yet, a program to help older workers, until they reach the age of 65 and become eligible for their retirement pension, would have cost $75 million, that is $75 million for one year, compared to $10 billion taken from the surplus to reduce the debt.

How can this situation be explained, other than by saying that it reflects a blind implementation of the American right wing theory? In other words, if someone is rich, it is because he deserves to be rich, it is because he developed his potential. On the other hand, if someone is not wealthy, it is because he did not work hard enough and does not do things properly. The growing gap between the rich and the poor will serve our society, and this is how things should be.

If the Conservatives continue this practice—and surely they must know this—they will never get the majority government that they want, because right now they are scaring Quebeckers and Canadians, who do not at all want this kind of right wing government, a government that has decided the state no longer has a role to play. The state no longer even has the responsibility to help generate prosperity. That responsibility is left to the market. However, as we can see, it is not working. The interests of the market and of multinational corporations are not the same as those of communities.

When we decide to go ahead in the energy sector without assessing the environmental impact, we are not helping our society, quite the contrary. And when we decide to ignore a whole sector of the economy—such as the manufacturing and forestry sectors, which are falling apart—and when, as a government, we are not doing anything about it, we are not assuming our responsibility to create conditions that will promote prosperity. That is what people will tell the Conservatives if, some day, an election is called based on these elements.

The Bloc Québécois has been warning for the past 18 months that an economic downturn was on the horizon. Let us use the tools available to us. Let us take the surplus available and make sure that the money is spent in the right places. The International Monetary Fund is telling all developed economies the same thing: ensure that money is invested in infrastructure programs; ensure that the money invested can be used for structuring activities. But just stop putting all the money toward paying down the debt.

We could have the best debt-to-GDP ratio if the GDP starts to decline as it might well do before long. If the Conservative government continues along the same course, what is happening in the United States right now will happen in Canada, and we will end up with a better ratio because of paying down the debt, the reason, however, being that the gross domestic product is lower. It would be totally absurd to get to that.

Such positions are not taken just to ensure that our manufacturing and forestry industries function, or to receive praise, as we have, from Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, or because the Forest Products Association of Canada said that the Canadian government should go back to the drawing board, but because, at the end of the day, jobs are at stake, and families rely on these jobs.

I had the opportunity last week to see the major problems already being created in the United States by the financial situation there. Families are no longer able to hold on to their houses. Loans were made based on a financial system that was left largely unregulated. The President of the United States would have us believe that control can be regained by giving a mandate to the Fed, the central bank of the U.S.A. That does not work.

Yes, our economy is stable overall and there is strong demand domestically. However, that will not be enough to counter the fact that, because of what is going on south of the border, we will be exporting less to the United States. This is apparent in all sectors where people sell products to the United States: construction, furniture manufacturing and forest product processing. In all other sectors, there are serious problems because Americans are buying less.

What should be done about this? There should be more investment in the manufacturing sector, in the forestry sector and in businesses to help them boost their productivity. The goal is not to subsidize companies' activities, but to give them a tax structure that allows them to develop products while remaining competitive. That will not happen by itself. That has not happened anywhere in the world. All successful employers have received a little help from the state to start up and move forward.

Here, the current Conservative government has a tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater. That is what happened with Technology Partnerships Canada, a program that the Liberals may have abused when it came to certain companies. Overall, however, it was a program that helped businesses create jobs. In my riding, Premier Tech, a company that provides 300 jobs in the region, employs a lot of people—technicians and researchers. Early on, the program financed new product development twice. Those were not subsidies; they were partnerships. Today, money is flowing back to the federal government thanks to that program.

Everyone thought the Conservative government should go forward with initiatives like that so that the system could keep working, but the government got stuck in its ideological approach, calling for minimal intervention and expecting the market to sort everything out. With that kind of ideology, when things start going downhill, they go downhill fast. We are now seeing the results of that in the United States. Unfortunately, that is the kind of turmoil we are now facing.

The people who came to speak to the Standing Committee on Finance were not just representing unions or the unemployed. They were industrialists from the manufacturing and forestry sectors. They were people who told us that if we did not do something, our jobs would end up being exported. Ultimately, if Canada's energy market were to decline, and we saw some ups and downs a few weeks ago, it would be an economic disaster.

Of course, then the Conservative government could have more of a reaction, because of its close ties to the oil industry. It had no reaction for the sectors currently affected, which are primarily in Quebec and Ontario. Furthermore, it is rather strange that a Minister of Finance would speak not just one, two or three times, but five to ten times to systematically destabilize Ontario's provincial government, when it would have been much better to work together.

The same thing happened with the Government of Quebec. The federal budget was brought down, and that night the Minister of Finance said, and this was repeated in the papers the following morning, that there was not enough money to give our industry a chance.

And so when it came time for the Quebec budget, measures were put in place. But imagine the things that could have been done if the federal government had used $7 billion from the surplus to kickstart the economy instead of using $10 billion to pay down the debt. And if it was not interested in doing this through federal programs, all it had to do was transfer the money to the provinces so that they could improve their programs and help their manufacturing and forestry industries.

There is no society that will not have manufactured goods. It is not a possibility. By the same token, we will continue to use forest products. However, we must develop new products and prove that we are open to being green by making quality products that respect the environment. Canadians want a sustainable approach from the government, but they have yet to see that from the Conservative government.

It is sad that we still find ourselves with a minority government. Logically, the Liberal Party should have voted against the government so that the public could make a decision about these matters. If that had been the case, we would be in the middle or at the end of an election campaign right now, and we would know what the public wanted.

The public wants the government to work on building prosperity, and not to simply look at how the economy is running without getting involved, without taking responsibility, without laying the necessary foundations to bring this about. It is essential that the Government of Canada understand that it needs to get away from the framework defined by the American right. We can see where this taking Americans. We need to learn from this and find a different approach.

That is what the opposition parties regularly say in this House. That is the point of the Liberal motion today, which says that we must recognize our ability to be prosperous, but we must also work together to achieve these results, which is not currently the case.

I also personally believe that this is a perfect example of the fact that year after year, Quebec always has to knock on the federal government's door to recover part of the taxes it pays. I hope that Quebeckers realize that sovereignty would be a much better economic and cultural development tool.

We will support the motion today, because we think that the government needs to hear the alarms sounding over here.

Manufacturing and Forestry Industries March 31st, 2008

Mr. Speaker, the reality is that the Conservative government chose to abandon the regions and let them face the crisis in the manufacturing and forestry industries on their own. It will pay the political price for that in the next election. Since the Conservatives took office, more than 78,000 jobs have been lost in the manufacturing sector in Quebec, including some 44,000 in 2007 alone. None of the previous budgets or this year's budget will address that problem.

Faced with such devastation, will the government discontinue its irresponsible policy of putting all extra money toward the debt and announce today the establishment of a $7 billion trust to support the economy? That is what the citizens in the affected regions are asking: stop taking the money to pay down the debt—

Manufacturing and Forestry Industries March 31st, 2008

Mr. Speaker, the Conservative government has access to a $10 billion surplus until midnight. No government in its right mind would hesitate to use a portion of this huge surplus to support a struggling economy and help the manufacturing and forestry industries which are facing a crisis.

To prevent all of this year's surplus from going toward the debt, will the government announce today that $7 billion of this surplus will be put into a trust designed to help these industries which are in serious need of help?

Forestry Industry Support March 31st, 2008

Mr. Speaker, today I rise to speak to the motion from the member for Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord. This motion is very relevant. There is currently a major forestry crisis in Quebec and Canada.

Today, March 31, is a rather symbolic date. Unfortunately, today is the day that the current budget ends. And so far, the Conservative government will have spent $10 billion to pay down the debt, while it knowingly decided to let the forestry industry sort out its own problems.

At midnight tonight, $10 billion will be put towards the debt. The government could have paid $3 billion, and used the other $7 billion to stimulate the economy, as recommended by economic stakeholders from Canada and from international organizations such as the International Monetary Fund.

For a year, the forestry sector has been experiencing a terrible crisis. We should remember that a year ago we were starting to see companies experience difficulties and go under because of the value of the dollar, and jobs were being lost. The other companies, the ones that were stronger and had good management, held on. This year, we are seeing the second, or even third, wave of closures.

In my riding, Maibec had to close its doors for three months, even though it was a very stable, well managed company. Thus, it is not a question of the quality of management or staff. There was an opportunity to help that company diversify its economy.

The same thing happened at Bois Daaquam, in Saint-Just-de-Bretenières. The employees agreed to adjust their salary based on lumber prices. That is a considerable sacrifice. Significant action was taken by workers, manufacturers, employers and communities. The federal government, however, decided to allocate $10 billion to the debt, turning a blind eye to the reality facing our forestry industries. It is therefore important—very important—to put the necessary measures on the table. That is what is proposed by the motion presented by the hon. member for Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord.

It is not a matter of giving people a handout, but rather, creating a real assistance policy for the forestry industry. We have the means to do so. We had the means and we still have them today.

Before this day ends, we could decide to allocate considerable funding to boost the forestry and manufacturing industries. I would remind the House that, a few weeks ago, we voted on the creation of a trust for regional economic diversification in the amount of $1 billion. That took only five minutes.

The Conservatives decided to adopt a laissez-faire policy, leaving entire communities in Quebec, Ontario, British Columbia and across Canada to fend for themselves. We must be clear: the federal government's action is deliberate.

It decided not to help those communities and not to help the forestry industry. It is going to put that $10 billion surplus toward the debt at midnight tonight. In the meantime, it is telling the entire forestry industry to cope on its own with plant closures and job losses. Instead of being there to help people in the industry, the government acts like a private company, pocketing the surplus and paying off the debt as soon as possible.

They have forgotten that they were elected to Parliament to represent the people. The Conservatives are behaving just as though they were multinational company shareholders, trying to get the best return on their investment regardless of how that will affect people.

The fact that we are having this debate today is very significant. It would have been very doable to take part of the $10 billion surplus that they are going to put toward the debt and create an economic diversification program aimed specifically at communities that depend heavily on the forest industry. The billion dollars allocated to the manufacturing and forestry industries is not nearly enough. The Government of Quebec, the Government of Ontario and many other stakeholders have all said it is not good enough. The government should allocate much more money and implement tax measures to encourage the development of processing activities in the region. Instead, the government has decided to reduce funding for the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec next year. The agency will have less money, not more, but not to worry, because that is how the Conservatives do things around here.

They will try to invest as little as possible in the economy and let the market work everything out. Even though regions and businesses have to close their doors, nobody will be able to help them because the Conservatives made a conscious choice to abandon those regions. That did not happen by accident. I am sure that voters in those regions will not forget that choice. When the time comes for people to vote in the next election, I will tell them to remember how the Conservative government had to choose either to allocate part of the year's $10 billion surplus to helping the forest industry or to pay down the debt. It decided to spend all of the money on the debt. As a result, regions that rely on forestry were left to their own devices.

The Conservative members, particularly those from Quebec, who voted in favour of the last budget and who said nothing about this issue, were elected to represent Ottawa in the regions rather than the opposite. Had they decided to represent their regions, they would have said that part of the $10 billion surplus should have been used to stimulate the forestry industry. Instead, this money will be used to pay down the debt while entire communities are suffering from the forestry crisis. There would have been money, for example, for a refundable tax credit for the research and development of new products, a program to support the production of energy and ethanol from forest waste, and improvements to the employment insurance plan. This plan generated a $54 billion surplus that was used to cover Canada's deficit and is now going to be used to pay down the debt. These workers contributed for 10 to 15 years. Today, the government has made no effort to help these people even though we have a $10 billion surplus. This is the customary approach of the rich who close their eyes to avoid helping members of society in need. That always ends up biting us in the backside. That will happen to the Conservative government if it does not change its strategy, its attitude.

I am very surprised that members from regions in Quebec and Canada where forestry is an important part of the economy did not all stand up in this House and demand that we reinvest part of the surplus and use it to help the forestry industry rather than paying down the debt.

The government could have created an income support program for older workers. The members from the regions in this House, who visited plants during the election campaign, saw people aged 45, 48, 50, 52, 55, 56 and 58 who had worked very hard for 20 to 30 years in the plants. Today, we are seeing catastrophic plant closures and job losses. A host of people aged 56, 57, 58 and 60 are without jobs. All the current government is telling them is to try to find a job out west, to try to find a job in the computer field. You have spent your whole life measuring wood and suddenly you have to take a course to become a computer technician. When some of the members here lose their jobs, they will see how easy it is for someone between 55 and 60 to find another job. If Canada still had a deficit, the government could say that choices have to be made. But the federal government has had a surplus for several years.

I will conclude on that point. As of March 31, 2008, Canada has a $10 billion surplus that, at midnight tonight, will be used to pay down the government's debt. Meanwhile, there are families that cannot make ends meet and communities that cannot get their economy going again, all because of the Conservative government.

Every member of this House who voted for the budget and does not want to increase the funding in the trust for regional economic diversification is supporting the Conservatives' decision to abandon our forest communities. This is unacceptable, and that is why we encourage them to look to the example of the motion introduced by the member, who clearly showed that a concrete action plan could have been put in place and that the money was available. Instead, we are faced with the Conservatives' indifference and inaction. That is what this motion criticizes.

Afghanistan March 13th, 2008

Mr. Speaker, there was an error in my colleague's speech. The last time Parliament made a decision about this issue, it decided to extend the mission until 2009. The member says that we cannot withdraw from Afghanistan now because Canada committed to being there until February 2009, by which time we will have fulfilled our obligation and done exactly what we told the international community we would do.

I had the impression I was listening to an American general in Vietnam in the mid-1960s, a few years before the Americans were forced to leave Vietnam following their humiliating defeat. They believed that more soldiers and a bigger military budget would solve the problem.

We have to wonder about this, and wondering about it does not make one a bad citizen. Has Canada not done its part? Can NATO not continue the mission? Are there not other contributions we can make in terms of diplomacy and international cooperation?

I believe that we have done our part and played our role in the combat mission.

Afghanistan March 13th, 2008

Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully to the member's speech. The Afghanistan issue is not an easy one. It is neither all black or all white. However, what is clear is that, from the beginning, any Canadian involvement has been improvised. The Minister of National Revenue, who was the national defence critic two years ago, asked the former government 16 questions about what should be considered for this mission's future. Since then, the new government has been unable to answer those questions.

I have a question for the member. This mission is unbalanced and we all acknowledge that Afghanistan needs diplomatic assistance from the international community. But in order to really support our troops, should we not end our offensive mission in Kandahar in February 2009, as the vast majority of Canadians and an even bigger majority of Quebeckers are expecting?

It is very important to make the distinction between offensive military involvement in Kandahar and the involvement of NATO and the international community in Afghanistan. Is it not just throwing the baby out with the bath water to lump all of that together and to want to continue an offensive war in which Canada has already done its part? Other countries could take its place in Kandahar.

Lastly, would the most responsible thing for Canada to do on the international scene not be to inform the international community that we will leave Kandahar in February 2009 and that we will no longer participate the current, aggressive military mission?

Business of Supply March 11th, 2008

Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully to my colleague. I am a bit surprised to see that he does not seem to know that the existing Canadian model, which is made up of the financial authorities from each province, has been recognized by the OECD as one of the most efficient in the world. The World Bank says the same thing. I do not think that centralizing those decisions would be a gain.

If the legislative assembly of the member's province had adopted unanimously a motion such as the motion adopted by the National Assembly of Quebec, which calls upon the Conservative government to abandon its project, and if afterward, the finance minister of the member's province had forwarded a similar written request, after the budget, would the member have the same attitude? Would he not have respected the will of the people from the province he represents?

In Quebec, the existing model works well. It has allowed the development of original models such as the Fonds de solidarité des travailleurs and the stock savings plan. It has also allowed, in the case of Norbourg, the prosecution and conviction of people who acted illegally.

It is therefore Quebec as a whole, including the government represented by a federalist party, the Minister of Finance and the other parties at the National Assembly, who express their wish and call unanimously upon the federal government to abandon its project to establish a single system in Canada. What kind of attitude would the member have if he was in the same situation? Would he not do as the Bloc members are doing?

Business of Supply March 11th, 2008

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Lac-Saint-Louis for his thoughtful speech. First of all, in this case, we are not calling for jurisdiction to be given back. Jurisdiction of this financial matter already belongs to the provinces. It is enshrined in the Constitution.

It is somewhat incomprehensible that the Conservative government finally agreed to recognize Quebec as a nation, as a result of the Bloc Québécois' request and motion. At the same time, it wants to remove one of Quebec's powers in one of the only areas in which it has a voice internationally. Quebec is taking part in debates with the international financial association. It has a voice at the table. The Conservative minister's plan would mean taking away that voice.

I urge my colleague to instead think about how he could make a better decision as a member from Quebec. The Quebec National Assembly is not governed by a sovereigntist party, but rather by a federalist party, the Quebec Liberal Party. All parties represented in the National Assembly—the Liberal Party of Quebec, the Parti Québécois and the Action démocratique du Québec—agree that the Minister of Finance's plan must be stopped.

Thus, is it not his responsibility to go along with the unanimous will of Quebeckers, as indicated by the National Assembly and the Government of Quebec?

Business of Supply March 11th, 2008

Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest to the speech of my colleague from Burlington.

I have much difficulty understanding how he can want to change a system which can surely be improved, but which has been recognized as the second best in the world by the OECD and which earned Canada the status of a world leader according to the World Bank. This system has also allowed the creation of very original financial products. Why should it be replaced when, according to the Constitution, this is a provincial jurisdiction? Would the member be ready to allow his Conservative colleagues from Quebec to vote in favour of the motion submitted by the Bloc Québécois?

Earlier today, I was listening to the member from Lévis-Bellechasse. His riding is just across the river from the National Assembly of Quebec. If he votes against this motion from the Bloc, he will vote against the National Assembly of Quebec, against the present Government of Quebec, a federalist government. He will vote therefore against the consensus in Quebec. How can he explain that situation? Would he agree that his colleagues from Quebec should support the motion, just as the New Democratic Party will, given that the only justification for the position of the Conservative Government is a desire to centralize?