Paul Crête

[Petitions, February 7th, 1995]

Madam Speaker, I wish to table a petition signed by more than 90 per cent of the people of Saint-Clément-de-Rivière-du-Loup, in which the undersigned call upon the Parliament of Canada to do what is necessary to ensure that the Canada Post Corporation re-opens the post office in Saint-Clément, which

was closed in December 1992, so that the community will again enjoy the kind of service the crown corporation is supposed to provide.

I would like to remind the House that the Canadian government's moratorium on closing post offices came as a result of the efforts of the people of Saint-Clément and that a number of members here, including the members for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell and Rosemont, went to support the people of Saint-Clément in their struggle. Paradoxically, today we have a situation where many post offices across Canada were saved thanks to the action taken by the people of Saint-Clément. Unfortunately, the people of Saint-Clément were not covered by the moratorium, and now they are asking to have this omission corrected. That is my purpose in tabling their petition.

[English]

[Violence Against Women, December 6th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, I have a great interest in this issue, considering that with our work schedule as members of Parliament, it might be very tempting to adopt the traditional role of the father. That being said, as a man, I can only pay tribute to the hon. member for her work with children.

One of the main things we can do is to act as men and parents who believe in a different model than the traditional one, a model based on respect for young girls and women, based on the belief that they deserve the same opportunities as men to develop their potential, and also based on real support in every day life, whenever possible.

In the case of families where both spouses are often together, I believe in sharing chores. It is also important-and that goes for every family-to discuss problems and other issues such as spousal abuse, because these things do exist. For example, if we witness this type of violence on TV, it may be good to discuss it for a minute, instead of quickly switching channels.

I also think that when half of the seats in this House will be filled by women, our institution will more balanced and will pass better laws which will take into account to an even greater degree what must be done to have new views on success and power.

[Violence Against Women, December 6th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, I think that is an excellent question and I discussed it a little in my presentation when I talked about employment. Yes, I think that if this country had an active job creation policy for using our human resources to their full potential, it would mean that every man and every woman in our society could make his or her contribution to it.

An active employment policy would mean that we would care more about the whole social aspect, because our society now often tends to emphasize productivity as an end in itself, although Canadian society, despite its faults, has still developed some values like compassion.

In this day and age, we should avoid following the American model blindly; we see the results they have obtained in terms of violence. They are our southern neighbours and we can see it right away. I think that is what haunts us in actions like the terrible event at l'École polytechnique, as someone said in an article in Le Devoir today. The writer saw it as an indication of what we might see, which is more commonly associated with the United States.

I think that to counter that, to get back to the hon. member's question, yes, if the economy works well, if people work, if they pay taxes, we will be able to have a better distribution of justice. I think that is a contribution which this government could and should make in particular when it will have to adjust its reform of social programs to respond more closely to the representations made to it by many groups across Canada.

[Violence Against Women, December 6th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, when I heard of today's debate, I naturally thought about the victims at l'École polytechnique, but I also thought about all the other victims of violence, about the 300 and some women who have died in violent incidents since 1989, and about the thousands of women who face various acts of violence every day. It is important to see this situation, not necessarily as a particularly atrocious fact, but as a situation prevailing throughout our society, which has led to unacceptable behaviours and to which we must give priority so that Quebec society, Canadian society can be held up as an example of a violence free society.

Part of the problem we are facing can be found in this House today: all members are denouncing violence and saying that we must take the right measures to prevent such incidents from happening again in the future, but we encounter the same problem in society.

Violence is often a problem, partly because we do not talk about the reality, the fact that people are affected. Victims of violence are not allowed to speak out, so they can overcome their fears and get on with their lives after going through a period of violence. For example, violent men have few opportunities to express who they are and release this negative energy, so that they can clean up their act and allow the situation to evolve.

That is why, in considering what I expected from this debate, I thought a great deal about my children, my two daughters, Audrey and Maude, and my son, Renaud, because it is for them that we are trying to build a different society.

When we read stories about how violence is perpetuated, we see that some behaviours are often passed on from father to son or from mother to daughter and that even abusers are not necessarily aware of their violent tendencies. As I said earlier, we must hold a public debate on the subject and initiate a dialogue that will enable us to correct these situations.

Some specific ways to promote this dialogue are by supporting women's centres or groups that look after violent men, because you may have the best intentions in the world, but if you do not have the energy and resources needed for these discussions to go on, they will not take place and we will inherit the negative results, as we have for a long time, with tragic events like what happened at l'École polytechnique and all the tragic events that we learn about and which we hear reported as anecdotes; repression is suggested as the way to deal with them, but I think that repression is a last resort to prevent physical violence.

Of course, we must eliminate violence by properly controlling firearms and all other instruments of violence; we must control them to prevent a recurrence of events like those at l'École polytechnique. But at the same time, we must look further and see what is behind this event and find out what caused it.

We realize that conjugal violence and violence in general is a complex phenomenon because it involves not only poor families, middle class families or rich families. Domestic violence occurs in all classes of society and we must find ways to correct this problem.

Earlier, I talked about creating proper conditions. However, many people in our society have basic needs that are not met, for education, family income, child care, equity in social programs; also, the new types of families in our society do not have the support services they need. Single-parent families and blended families experience completely new situations to which our social programs are not necessarily suited.

I would also say that violence has a subversive aspect, a rather perverse aspect due to the inequality between men and women in terms of employment and career opportunities.

This perpetuates the feeling of inequality, and often allows some men to establish relations in which women are dependent, thus creating a situation which can potentially lead to violence. But there is not only physical violence; there are many other forms of violence.

Consequently, it is important to do prevention from the time a child is born, since the way that child will develop will influence, to a degree, his perception of things. We must ensure that families can give birth to children in acceptable conditions, feed them properly and provide them with all the necessary elements to grow and build their self-esteem, so as to help them develop respect for their fellow citizens, members of the opposite sex and friends, as well as relations based on mutual respect instead of dependency.

Clearly, we must launch an attack on several fronts. We are faced with a situation similar to that of child poverty, in the sense that a preventive and comprehensive strategy is required to end violence, but we also need ad hoc measures to deal with emergencies.

It is also important to look at what can be done during the various stages of a child's development to curb the tendency to resort to violence. Do we grant adequate maternity leave to all Canadian women, so that they can give birth in proper conditions? If these women are single parents situation, do they have adequate financial resources to live in acceptable conditions?

Later on, when a child is growing, does he benefit from adequate daycare services? Are there not people right now who would like to have access to such services to help their children develop in a proper environment? Do we not stereotype people increasingly?

Children born in relatively well off families that can afford privately funded quality daycare will receive a more stable education. These children will develop more self-confidence. On the other hand, there are those who are trapped in the vicious circle of financial dependency and can see no way out. So we have to work to ensure that equal opportunities become more prevalent, so that 20 or 25 years from now, changes will be noticeable, with less violence and fewer groups living in conditions conducive to violence.

Then there is school and career. If women go back to experiencing difficulty in finding employment and to being in a position of inferiority in the jobs that they do get, if they cannot have access to university careers, if we fail to eliminate stereotypes in that regard, we help perpetuate the existing climate.

On that subject, choices must be made-they are still under consideration-concerning the social security reform for example. Students could have to take full responsibility for their loans. This means that they will have much higher debts to pay off when they graduate. And it would be unfair to women who would choose to start a family.

Specific measures such as these do not have a direct bearing on dramatic acts of violence, but nevertheless add to the set of conditions which eventually lead to violence.

I would also like to see that, later in life, women who have grown up and become adults are able to start a family and have children in acceptable conditions, so that they do not find themselves in a situation where they themselves could become violent toward their children because we have failed to put in place an adequate social system to enable them to raise them in decent conditions.

This whole debate on violence is a societal issue and, perhaps it should also be pointed out, an individual issue. Because somewhere we have to take a good look at ourselves and at our own behaviour. I think that if this debate made all Quebecers or all Canadians take a moment of their evening to think about and discuss potential sources of violence in their environments, as well as individual behaviours which could be corrected, and the need to adapt, we could say that we helped reduce the opportunities for violence in our society. I think that this would be a good response to today's debate. It is up to each one of us.

This is also a government responsibility. A review is under way. The Minister of Justice spoke earlier about a series of measures that have been or will be taken, but important choices must be made regarding the resources to be allocated to the various programs, the approach to this problem, and I think that the results will show how successful our efforts were. This government must take concrete actions that will bring about some improvement in the situation and make our society better before the new millennium rolls around.

When we commemorate again in five or ten years the terrible event that occurred at l'École polytechnique, instead of talking about the negative side of the current situation, we will at least be able to tell all those who were made aware of the issue of violence by this event, all those who made a contribution, all the women who circulated petitions until a gun control law was passed, that the mission has been accomplished. We will have

succeeded in reducing violence in our society, and this may be the best test.

[Violence Against Women, December 6th, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, I listened very carefully to what the hon. member said, and I would like to give her the assurance that many men have thought and are thinking and learning about what is happening in society today.

Like the previous speaker, I also have children, two girls and one boy, and I want them to have the same opportunities in the years to come. That is why I think the government must send the right signals. You say you do not feel like having a debate on this today. I realize that the issue of violence against women is a universal one, but at the same time we are here to ensure that the appropriate measures are taken.

Without in any way blaming the government, we can at least consider what signals the government could perhaps send tomorrow morning. For instance, in connection with social program reform, could it suggest ways to fight poverty other than targeting poor parents and poor children, which does not provide any help for the middle class? There are all kinds of family support programs, but are they adequate?

And could the present climate of violence in our society be due to the fact that for the past 20 or 25 years, we have failed to provide equal opportunities for everyone? This is true in the case of women, the disabled and several other categories. And should the government not make this the spearhead of its action to eliminate child poverty by the year 2000, for instance? If it does, it may succeed in considerably reducing violence against women.

[Violence Against Women, December 6th, 1994]

Madam Speaker, I have listened attentively to my colleague's remarks. I would agree with her that it is important to denounce the deplorable crimes that have been committed, but I would point out that it is also important, in the course of a debate such as the one here today, to look for the real causes of this situation. The violent behaviour we are seeing is often just the symptom of a situation created by society.

In this regard, I think that particular attention should be given to the reform of social programs and to how we intend to help all members of society live in acceptable conditions.

If our analysis went deeper, might we not conclude that people exhibiting aggressive, unacceptable criminal behaviour often turned to this behaviour because they did not have the same opportunities as others early in life? Perhaps our social programs did not provide access to adequate daycare for those who needed it, and thus did not truly attempt to eliminate child poverty.

Should we not be examining this aspect of the problem in seeking definitive solutions, rather than limiting ourselves to remedial and punitive action?

Of course we will always be faced with finding solutions to specific cases of unacceptable violence, such as the one that took place at the École polytechnique, but there are also all the other cases that arise.

Should we, as elected representatives, not be looking for long term solutions, rather than enumerating truly reprehensible situations, situations that are unacceptable? Our examination of the problem must go deeper and it must produce solutions.

I would put the following question to the hon. member: Is there, in the Reform Party program, the necessary compassion, the necessary acceptance of situations, and satisfactory proposals for improvement? Is everyone ready to implement the 1989 Parliamentary declaration against child poverty? Should the emphasis not be on prevention, so that we do not repeat the American experience, where more money is being spent on prisons that on helping people?

[Supply, November 22nd, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's speech raises the following comment: What a pity the government did not do its homework in this case and has no comprehensive proposal it can table on this issue, because what we have here is a motion that is unsatisfactory.

The Reform Party's motion has no really comprehensive approach to the questions being asked by all voters. Earlier, the hon. member said it contained a point similar to what was said in the Liberals' red book. I think some modesty is in order. The point was raised by all voters we met during the 1993 election campaign. Everyone everywhere, in Quebec and the other provinces, at all levels of society, was wondering how their elected representatives had managed to get terms of employment that were far better than those of most people in this country.

The government, by the way, has yet to meet its commitment, because it has not yet tabled legislation it promised to introduce. And of course the Reform Party could be blamed for presenting a motion that is so vague we cannot vote in favour of it, since we really do not know how the alignment with private sector plans would work.

It seems to me that in his speech, the hon. member talked a lot about avoiding double dipping and also about reviewing the age at which members would receive a pension and introducing a minimum age, and I think we could agree on that. For instance, during the election campaign, people said: Paul, you are 40

years old, which means that when you are 46 or 47, you will get a pension for life, and we pay for it. Nice work if you can get it!

Fortunately, I had the right answer, because I kept telling them: No sir, I do not intend to sit for more than one term in the Parliament of Canada, because I hope I will not have to come back, once we have settled the constitutional issue. I must say I found this answer very convenient.

In concluding, I would like to try to modulate the hon. member's views, and I would ask him whether he does not think it would be advisable for the government to table its bill in the near future, because it has already finished its first year. People who would like to get into politics during the next election, in about three or four years, should have a good idea of what they are getting into, and as well, it may be easier to deal with these issues at the beginning of a government's term.

You have had time to consult the way you consult on all kinds of things. We have probably had enough consultations. So, is the government going to make a decision very shortly so that during its first term, it will have responded to the wishes of all voters who want to ensure that their members are well paid but not excessively so? Their working conditions should make it attractive for talented people to run for Parliament, but at the same time, fairness should be a major consideration within the Canadian system as a whole.

[Ethics, November 2nd, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, we do not deny the competence of the employment counsellors, but we do deny that the federal government has jurisdiction over manpower training.

Does the minister not realize that this is just one more pitiful example of the federal system's failure to function where manpower training is concerned, which merely strengthens the broad consensus that exists in Quebec in this respect?

[Ethics, November 2nd, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Human Resources Development.

The federal government's decision, as a result of which unemployment insurance benefits may be cut off to young people who do not use the services of La Relance, a centre subsidized by the federal government, is starting to look like some kind of retaliation or tit for tat, just because the Government of Quebec and the City of Gatineau have decided to support Carrefour Jeunesse-Emploi.

Does the minister realize that by supporting La Relance as opposed to Carrefour Jeunesse-Emploi, his public servants are contradicting the very essence of the minister's social security reform, which includes substantial flexibility in the way young people will be helped?

[Ferries, November 1st, 1994]

Mr. Speaker, for more than 18 months, Ottawa has been trying to make up its mind about replacing the old Lucy Maud Montgomery , the ferry link between the Magdalen Islands and Prince Edward Island. Since the beginning of this Parliament, the Bloc Quebecois has urged the Minister of Transport to decide what should be done, but the minister still cannot make up his mind and is trying to shirk his responsibilities. However, interprovincial ferry services are a federal responsibility and the Magdalen Islands transportation co-op cannot go ahead without federal financing.

Not long ago, the Minister of Transport received letters from Quebec MNAs on the subject. Mr. Farrah, MNA for the Magdalen Islands, and Mr. Paillé, the Quebec Minister of Industry, agreed to ask the minister to act without delay.

Now that the minister knows it is up to him to make the decision, what is he waiting for?