Bill Siksay

[Marriage, December 6th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I want to quote a section of Bill C-38. Clause 3.1, which is an amendment that was added to the legislation over the course of the hearings of the legislative committee, states:

For greater certainty, no person or organization shall be deprived of any benefit, or be subject to any obligation or sanction, under any law of the Parliament of Canada solely by reason of their exercise, in respect of marriage between persons of the same sex, of the freedom of conscience and religion guaranteed under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms or the expression of their beliefs in respect of marriage as the union of a man and woman to the exclusion of all others based on that guaranteed freedom.

Does the member for Yukon have any reason to believe that section is not effective, that these guarantees have not been met and that there has been any problem whatsoever since the bill was passed with guaranteeing the freedoms as outlined in this clause in Bill C-38?

[Marriage, December 6th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I know the member took a personal, strong stand in the debate on Bill C-38 and resigned from his position in the cabinet because of his feelings about that legislation. Does he have any sense that due diligence was not given to the legislation in the 38th Parliament?

We have heard a criticism today that somehow the bill was rammed through, that it was not given the proper attention. Does he have any sense about the diligence with which Parliament dealt with that legislation?

[Marriage, December 6th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, the member spoke frequently about people of faith, but I want to ask him a question about people of faith who do support the change that was made to the definition of marriage with Bill C-38. There are religious institutions in Canada that do support marrying gay and lesbian couples, whose definition of marriage includes gay and lesbian couples.

Would he take away their freedom of religion to express that inclusion of gay and lesbian couples in marriage? They have through strong religiously held principles made that decision to marry gay and lesbian couples, to allow them, to allow us to enter into marriage.

Would he undo their ability to do that? Would he strip away their freedom of religion in order to re-establish a so-called traditional definition of marriage that does not include gay and lesbian couples?

[Marriage, December 6th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for Vancouver Centre for her passionate intervention and I appreciate her hard work in this area for many years.

I want to question her further on the question of children. We have heard tonight very bold and far-reaching statements that somehow question the ability of gay and lesbian parents to raise children appropriately and successfully. References were made that this was not possible.

I want to know if the member for Vancouver Centre has ever seen any serious evidence of that fact? I know that she has sat through many hours of testimony with the justice committee in the 37th Parliament, but in other situations, professionally as well, has she ever seen serious evidence that shows that there is any harm to children who are raised by gay or lesbian parents?

[Marriage, December 6th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. That is a falsehood. No one was bounced from this caucus in the last session of Parliament. There was no one removed because of a difference of opinion.

[Marriage, December 6th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I have a comment to offer for the member for Peterborough. I want to encourage the member not to mistake unanimity for compulsion. In this corner of the House, people will be voting their conscience tomorrow. All 29 New Democrats will be voting against the motion because we believe in the full participation of gay and lesbian people.

I ask the member not to mistake unanimity for compulsion, not to mistake a commitment to human rights for compulsion and not to mistake a commitment to the full participation of gay and lesbian people in our communities and in society for compulsion. I ask the member not to make that mistake about what is going to be happening in this corner of the House.

We all have a commitment, a commitment to acting on our conscience, and we happen to be united at this point. There is unanimity in this corner. It is not happening because of compulsion by the leader, the party or anyone. It is because we have all come to that conclusion independently and we will be voting in that regard tomorrow afternoon.

[Marriage, December 6th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, the member's argument is that gay and lesbian relationships are merely based relational. They do not meet the standard that he sets for a marriage relationship. Yet he seems to let childless couples off the hook very easily in his analysis. I think he said it was just a departure from the norm.

Why is so easy to make an exception in that case, when childless heterosexual couples seem to fly against his argument and be merely a relationship? He seems unable to allow gay and lesbian couples the same stretch of his argument, for instance, in that case.

[Marriage, December 6th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for his courageous stand in the last Parliament as well as his remarks tonight. He was one of the few members of his party who supported gay and lesbian marriage. I do hope he has more company this time around in the ranks of his fellow Conservative members when we vote tomorrow.

There is very little for me to quibble with in his speech, but at the beginning of his remarks he said that it was not inappropriate for there to be review of legislation, that it was appropriate for Parliament to undertake a review. I want to take him on a bit about that because I wonder why it is necessary now.

From my perspective, I do not see any crisis in marriage which would lead me to believe that kind of review is necessary. Also, I do not think it is something that we regularly do, especially when we have rulings and have made decisions on important equality rights and important human rights issues in this place.

For instance, I do not think we ever undertook a major review in this place of women's rights, nor do I think that would be appropriate. I do not think we did a major review of interracial marriage rights, nor do I think that would be appropriate. I do not think we did a major review of divorce legislation, for that matter, nor do I think that would be appropriate.

I would like to ask the member why he might concede that this kind of review is appropriate when it comes to my rights as a gay person in this country, when it comes to my right marry the person I love. Why does he think this kind of review is appropriate so quickly after we made that decision in the House?

[Marriage, December 6th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the perspective the member for Davenport has on this. I know he was here for the speech of the Conservative member who spoke immediately before him, the member for Kitchener—Conestoga. A theme of that member's speech was “the blind dash toward setting this legislation in the last Parliament”. He talked about the undue haste that he thought the 38th Parliament had undertaken in its work on Bill C-38, the Civil Marriage Act.

As an openly gay man, I can say that the blind dash toward equality for gay and lesbian people in Canada does not seem like a very fast march to me. The 32 years that gay and lesbian people in Canada have worked to secure equal marriage rights does not seem like a very fast pace for those of us who have been fighting to see the full equality of our citizenship recognized and to see that we have equal access to key institutions of Canadian society like marriage.

I wonder if the member might comment on this supposed blind dash toward getting this legislation through the last Parliament. I hasten to remind him that 98 Conservative members spoke in the debate in the last Parliament. I think the Conservative Party had just over 100 members in the last Parliament.

We had weeks of hearings before the special legislative committee that was working on this. We often sat well into the night on that committee hearing from witnesses, a majority of whom raised concerns about the legislation.

Could the member comment on this supposed blind dash toward this legislation?

[Marriage, December 6th, 2006]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The hon. member just indicated something that is not indeed a statement of fact. No one was expelled from the caucus of the NDP in the course of the debate on same sex marriage in the last Parliament. I hope that he will clarify--