Derek Lee

[Petitions, March 7th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I have a petition signed by 45 individuals in the greater Toronto area. While recognizing the change in government policy to fully rebate goods and services tax on books purchased by educational institutions and libraries, they call on the government to pursue the policy further and remove the tax from books, magazines and newspapers.

[The Late Dr. Cheddi Jagan, March 7th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to express sadness at the passing of His Excellency Dr. Cheddi Jagan, President of the Co-operative Republic of Guyana, who passed away yesterday at age 78.

Dr. Jagan was a political leader in his native Guyana for a period that spanned 50 years. His prominence and experience gave him a presence far beyond his homeland, particularly in the western hemisphere.

In addition to his lifelong contributions to the citizens of Guyana, a country of several cultures, he was a leader in the evolution of democratic left of centre politics, in the evolution of Guyana's economy and social state and in the transition from colony to independent state.

In a meeting in Ottawa last fall Dr. Jagan made it clear how Guyanese and Central American and Caribbean politics has affected us all in North America. With the more than 100,000 Guyanese Canadians and all the people of Guyana, we mourn the passing and the loss of Dr. Cheddi Jagan.

[Tobacco Act, March 6th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member raises the issue of transition as an important part of legislation which requires adjustment. That is a very good point. It is a very good point. We need transition for our tobacco farmers and there is something happening now for them in terms of transition.

On the advertising issue, the hon. member will recognize that the bill has a two-summer delay before implementation to allow for

adjustment on some of the advertising prohibitions. I know the frustration of an opposition member when the government does not seem to move. I sat over there for a long five years. Sometimes we win and sometimes we do not.

I am delighted to know the official opposition endorses the bill in principle. It is up to the official opposition whether or not it gets hung up on all the details. The principle is very much there and I am pleased to see the opposition endorses it and hopefully will vote for the bill at third reading.

[Tobacco Act, March 6th, 1997]

I am giving credit to all members who participated in this initiative.

Having been goaded by some members earlier, I raised that fact that I was little uncomfortable with the atmosphere that demonizes people who smoke. I know we are not trying to do so, but in an effort to spin up the politics and get the bill passed we can say smoking is bad for our health. In fact it is lethal. We must recognize that there are many good people out there who are addicted. We must look for soft landings for people who are addicted.

I close by saying that tobacco is now seen as an enemy of the people. It has taken us 400 years since Sir Walter Raleigh to get that far. Let us realize what it is. Let us recognize other countries

such as France and the United States care about the health of their citizens and are doing the same. I am prepared to support the bill.

[Tobacco Act, March 6th, 1997]

I am not afraid. I am going to speak to that later. I am not embarrassed to mention the name of a tobacco company. I am not even afraid to hold a cigarette in my hand. I do not smoke. We have to be careful that we do not demonize in our society. We do not want to demonize things the way we did with firearms. Good people have firearms. Good people smoke and let us recognize that.

There happens to be a jazz festival in Toronto. There happens to be jazz festivals in Montreal and in Vancouver and a tobacco company happens to sponsor part of the costs. It is a good thing that the jazz festival happens. I want to see those events continue. The government recognizes that there could be a difficult period of adjustment. It has allowed two summers of adjustment. Technical provisions in the bill may further complicate the adjustment. Perhaps the minister's regulatory authority will be able to smooth that over.

As an MP I will be working with others in my community to make sure these events can continue without the high level of tobacco advertising support that they currently have. That does not mean that there cannot be any tobacco advertising support, but under this bill a lot of that support will be reduced.

We have two seasons to work on this. I hope we will have some success. I commend the tobacco companies to the route that says get creative, work within the law and advertise their product to the extent that it is legal. I exhort them to stay away from our youth, but I do not have any problems with attending a festival that happens to have a tobacco company sponsor.

I found it disappointing to hear references in the media over the last couple of days about the impending cancellation this weekend involving an Australian auto racing event. It is almost unbelievable to think that an advertising agency would consider doing this.

This bill has not even left the House yet, let alone to get into the other place. It is not even law yet and someone is saying we are going to have to punish the people of Canada for considering this. We are going to punish the people who are fans of driver Villeneuve. We are going to victimize Canadians because they are considering this legislation.

I was very disappointed by that. Shame on those who conceived of this as a way of influencing us. Hopefully the event will still be publicized and the fans of Jacques Villeneuve will get to see him.

I want to comment on the insertion in the bill of a provision that allows the House to review regulations put in place by the minister. This is the first bill that I recall in some time that has such a provision. I want to commend the member for Lambton-Middlesex for her drafting and moving of this provision. It is a concurrence provision that may be the precursor of others which we may wish to make use of in the House of Commons, given the extremely high volume of delegated regulatory authority not just in this bill but in many other bills. Once we delegate that authority rarely do members see the regulations again. This amendment will allow the regulations created under this bill to come before the House for our approval.

[Tobacco Act, March 6th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to this bill on behalf of my constituents. I realize that the bill contains many contentious issues, but its over-arching principle relates to the fact that people are dying in Canada as a direct result of tobacco consumption.

There are lots of ugly statistics related to tobacco consumption. The 1991 figures indicate that 41,000 Canadians died of tobacco related diseases. In Ontario over 12,000 deaths per year are attributed to tobacco. It is projected that over half of today's smokers will die of a tobacco related disease.

It has been said that tobacco is the only product legally available on the market which is lethal when used as the manufacturer intends it to be used. The statistic that half of people smoking today will die from it produces a 50 per cent kill ratio. We do not use them much any more, but there are weapons of war that have a lower kill impact than 50 per cent. This kind of toxicity rates right up there with weapons of war, perhaps with cyanide, perhaps with the depletion of the ozone layer, perhaps with bullets. These are all things that society has to regulate for the general well-being of its citizens.

Principally the bill does four things. It will further limit youth access to tobacco. It will restrict the promotion of tobacco products to youth. It will increase the health information on packages related to tobacco consumption. Finally, it will establish powers to further regulate the sale and consumption of tobacco products.

Much of that regulatory activity already exists in legislation. However, the bill will improve or refine existing legislation.

A lot of discussion has taken place about the impact of this legislation on public events which are sponsored by tobacco companies. These events are sponsored as part of the advertising campaigns of the tobacco companies. As someone said earlier, why would tobacco companies spend $66 million a year on advertising if there was not a benefit? They advertise because it enhances the profitability of their enterprises.

With respect to the impact on public events which are currently sponsored by tobacco advertisers, it is not just an Ontario issue, it is not just a Quebec issue, it is not just a Toronto issue or a Vancouver issue. I am disappointed that the tobacco companies and the lobbyists are wrapping themselves in the flag of Quebec. I do not think it is helpful to us in the House. I do not think it is useful for Canadians to see an issue that way.

I accept that a large amount of money is spent in the city of Montreal on these events. As a representative of my area, I have been shown the large amount of money spent in the Toronto area on these events. People do come from all over the place to see and to participate in the events. We have heard the names: the Benson & Hedges Symphony of Fire, the du Maurier Jazz Festival.

[The Budget, February 19th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, it appears to me that the leader of the third party is engaging in a semantic exercise in using the term payroll tax.

The premiums deducted for the Canada pension plan at source are paired equally, one to one with an employer contribution and paid over into the Canada pension plan. The identical thing happens with the employer's pension plan. The employee is deducted an amount of money at source. It is paired with dollar for dollar by the employer; the identical sum the employee puts in, the employer puts in. It is the same as with the Canada pension plan. Those funds are turned over and paid into the employer's pension plan.

Does the leader of the third party agree that there is a pension plan in both cases? In both cases it is mandatory that the employees contribute. The contributions end up in pension plans and ultimately the party making the contribution, the pensioner, will draw the benefits from the plan.

Why does he insist on referring to one of those two options as a tax when it is not?

[Criminal Code, February 13th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to speak to this bill presented by my colleague from Broadview-Greenwood. Since he was sent here by his constituents over eight years ago, he has never ceased to apply his own creative, forward looking brand of politics. He has, in this bill, asked Parliament to look down the road to what is looking at us in the face, a new world of Internet communications, a world of many things, as colleagues on both sides of the House have described.

The government is going to have to direct its attention to this and this is as good a time as any. We should strike now before we end up with problems that are even more difficult to deal with.

This is not a bill, as I understand it, that promotes Internet gaming, but rather is a bill that causes the federal government to occupy a field that is not now occupied at all. One of our colleagues earlier mentioned the Liechtenstein casino which he found available on the Internet here in Canada. There are perhaps many facilities available.

However, many of the members here believe that the federal government should look very closely at this now and occupying the field. What field is it and why? The field is that of gaming by by computer on the Internet.

As I understand it, the person who wants to gamble would establish a credit with a casino or gaming organization anywhere outside of Canada and, in many cases, involves jurisdictions where there is not much in the way of regulation. People would first establish their credit and the software can actually be in the computer. They would simply play the games on their own computer. However, before the game is played, they make their bets and access their credit outside of Canada. If they win their credits go up and if they lose their credits go down. The legitimate operators settle with the banking facility almost immediately or whenever the people have agreed with them. In any event, it is there.

In between the person and the gaming facility outside of Canada is what we call the service provider or server, which is a quasi-local communications provider who will permit your computer to access the Internet to the gaming organization. So that is the field.

Right now from Canada we can access anything we want from around the world, as my colleagues have so amply supplied. Why we want to occupy the field is perhaps more important.

The first thing identified has been the absence of any regulation at all. We all remember the Irish sweepstakes many years ago, before the federal and provincial governments had lotteries. That was the only way a Canadian could buy a ticket to win anything other than at the horse races.

Ultimately, Canadian jurisdictions decided to occupy the field and provided us with lotteries. The Irish sweepstakes may still be there, but there are lots of opportunities for Canadians to put a few dollars away on a lottery chance. They do it in huge numbers.

There are reasons to believe that Canadians will put large amounts of dollars into Internet gaming. We cannot prove it, but we believe it is there. Just as the Internet has mushroomed, Internet gaming could mushroom. As a result, there will be a dollar outflow when debts are made in this fashion.

Second, there is every indication that if there is profit to be made in this, and to be sure there is, organized crime will move in. Organized crime looks for profit, a vacuum or an opportunity. In this case, it is almost certain that if there are profit opportunities in an unregulated way, organized crime will move. It begins with a little extortion here or there and then it applies its resources to cornering, controlling and monopolizing what is otherwise a free market activity. This is not regarded, in our society, as a good thing. It would be considered a bad thing if Canadians were gaming through an organized crime mechanism. It is also a vehicle for money laundering, which we have decided is anti-social.

Third, if the government were to be involved it would provide order in an area where there is now not any order at all. It can be accessed by anyone: minors, fraud artists. Order will prevent or reduce the risk of that being the case.

Other colleagues have mentioned the possibility of taxing for the general well-being the service provider or gaming organization which would be able to operate if this were regulated and authorized under a licence, if the federal government chose to do so or if the federal government and a province chose to do so. There are lots of reasons why the federal government should occupy the field. It could be a complex issue. For that reason, I know colleagues will want to have the benefit of committee views on this.

I support the bill. I want to see Parliament look ahead at what the member for Broadview-Greenwood is holding out before us. I hope this Parliament will be able to take a forward step and get into, if not the gaming business as we have done in lotteries at least regulate the field so that Canadians can do it in a fair way, in a way that suits our social mores.

[Petitions, February 13th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, the second petition is presented by approximately 50 petitioners from east metro and metro Toronto and parts of southern Ontario.

The petitioners point out the previous and continuing involvement of the federal government in the area of disabilities for Canadians. They call upon Parliament to urge the government to continue to be responsible for disability issues and to ensure that all Canadians are treated equally.

[Petitions, February 13th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I have two petitions pursuant to Standing Order 36. The first one is from approximately 50 petitioners who point out that phase 2 of the national AIDS strategy will expire in March 1988.

The petitioners urge Parliament to ensure that a dedicated AIDS funding approach beyond that March 1988 deadline be put in place and to ensure that a sufficient AIDS strategy be continued by the government.