Gerald Keddy

[Question No. 130, April 30th, 2002]

Can the Departments of Public Works, Fisheries and Oceans, and Transport, or any other department, provide the amount of revenue the federal government receives from leases of wharves and related infrastructure to ferry service operators, including: ( a ) how the amount compares to amounts received in 2000, 1999, and 1998; ( b ) the amount of this revenue that comes from leases in Nova Scotia; and ( c ) the formulas on which these leases are based?

[Excise Act, 2001, April 29th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, no net loss of habitat; I cannot believe the hon. member said that with a straight face.

In the southern upland region of Nova Scotia 14 rivers are dead from acid rain, absolutely no salmon are surviving in those rivers and 50 more rivers are seriously impacted. We can talk about co-operation and co-ordination and we can avoid duplication. The government knows exactly what has to be done.

The acid rain emissions that still exist in the northeastern area of the United States have to be reduced further. We have to prevent that acid rain from falling on the southern upland region of Nova Scotia. It is a very simple process. If the Prime Minister and the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans had read the information sent to them by the Atlantic Salmon Association, they would already know how to deal with it.

We can talk about pH levels. This is about pH levels. It is quite simple, 5.4--

[Excise Act, 2001, April 29th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I rise tonight in what we in the House often call the late show. What I am looking for is an answer to a question I asked on March 22 and a month later I am hoping that tonight I will actually get the answer. The question was regarding wild Atlantic salmon, especially in the southern uplands of Nova Scotia. Specifically the question was about the postcard I have with me and 7,999 postcards like it, which were mailed to the Prime Minister by Atlantic Canadian salmon fishermen. Not one of them received a reply.

To me that is a deliberate and scandalous slap in the face to sport fishermen and fisherwomen, to environmentalists, to ecologists and to anyone remotely interested in looking after wild Atlantic salmon, which are endangered and threatened in much of Atlantic Canada, and certainly as well to the Atlantic Salmon Association and people like Lewis Hinks, people who operate and work as volunteers, many of them with the Atlantic Salmon Federation, the Gold River Salmon Association, the LaHave River Salmon Association and others.

Any elementary schoolchild in New Ross, the community I live in, who received 8,000 letters or 1 letter would attempt to answer them or it, yet the Prime Minister and the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans have chosen to ignore this extremely and critically important issue for all Nova Scotians.

It is not only the important issue of trying to save the species itself; it is an important commercial industry. It is too late for the offshore commercial fleets because they have fished the offshore salmon into extinction. However, it is not too late for the local rivers and the industry that they support. Salmon fishers put $11 million into the local Nova Scotia economy. There is another $47 million put into the local economy by trout fishermen.

It is important to know how these individuals talk about the salmon population in the southern upland rivers of Nova Scotia. Some rivers are extinct. Absolutely no salmon larvae survive in those rivers. The PH level is too low because of acid rain. In other rivers there are remnant populations, and in the rest of the rivers the populations have been declared depleted. On a good day, one may live near a river that is depleted, but far too many Nova Scotians, especially in the southern upland regions, live on or near rivers that once held thriving salmon populations, but now those populations are extinct or at the very best are remnant populations not capable of breeding and supporting themselves.

There are a number of issues, but the main issue for me is certainly that if 8,000 of these cards, which were done in a very professional manner, were sent to the Prime Minister of Canada I would expect, and I think any citizen would expect, an answer. Tonight I am here to hear the answer and then I will reply to it.

[Intoxication of Migratory Birds, April 29th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak to the motion put forward by the hon. member for Saint-Bruno--Saint-Hubert. It states:

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should, in compliance with the Migratory Birds Convention Act, 1994, amend its regulations to replace the use of lead fishing weights and baits by any other non toxic matter that would end the intoxication of migratory birds, including the loon, caused by the swallowing of lead.

I too listened to the parliament secretary. I heard her say that the government was consulting and that it would not support the motion. The last time I checked private members' legislation was whipped. However let us say for example that private members' legislation would not be whipped, that there would actually be a free vote. I would not expect a member of the government to speak on behalf of all the members of the government on private members' business. However that seems to be what is taking place.

I will make a suggestion to the government. It should take the 500 tonnes of lead that we are putting in lead shot every year and replace the metal substance with the loonie because it is only worth 62¢. We are calling it a dollar. If we were to make it out of lead we would get rid of the 500 tonnes. We would still sell it and everybody would benefit. Then we could call it the 62 center instead of the loonie.

However the loon is a bird that is directly affected by lead poisoning and certainly bears the brunt as one of our national emblems. I think it is as significant to most Canadians as the beaver.

The Alliance member for Souris--Moose Mountain who wanted to speak on the fact that there is no scientific evidence obviously has not gone to look for it. I suggest he check the websites of the Canadian Wildlife Federation and the Canadian Wildlife Service. If he were to do that he would find lots of evidence linking lead fishing weights to migratory bird loss.

Although loons in particular still nest in large numbers across Canada, recent studies have shown cause for concern about low breeding success, especially in the common loon. Loons are dying from lead poisoning by eating fish with lead sinkers. There is some suspicion they are also contacting lead poisoning after picking up discarded sinkers from lake bottoms. The lead is partially dissolved in the loons gizzard and absorbed into the blood and body tissue. Other tissue damage besides this also occurs, including nerve and kidney damage.

North American studies indicate that a significant proportion of adult loon deaths on the breeding grounds is attributed to lead poisoning from direct ingestion of sinkers. I would call that fairly conclusive evidence that lead sinkers cause lead poisoning in migratory birds.

The member for Souris--Moose Mountain started to make a point concerning lead shot. On that point there is some relative merit to replace lead shot across the nation for migratory birds and waterfowl. The government talks about consultation and discussion with advisory groups and wildlife groups but it missed a group in its consultative process. We may be causing more crippling of sea ducks with the exclusion of lead shot. When we are in deep water in the open ocean in a boat that is rocking up and down we would like to have every advantage and the lead shot carries slightly further than the substitute.

The hunting community has changed its tactics to accommodate the anti-lead shot bylaw and again both groups benefit. Wildlife benefits and the hunters have adapted to the regulations.

Environmentally safe alternatives to lead sinkers and jigs exist and are made from substances that include tin, bismuth, steel and tungsten-nickle alloy.

We talked before about the 500 tonnes of lead sinkers that are lost each year and it should be pointed out that nearly three million pounds of lead sinkers are lost in the United States annually as well.

Waterfowl or water birds can die from the ingestion of just one lead sinker. Birds affected include dabbling ducks, loons, grebes, sea ducks, cranes, herons, geese, swans, eagles, hawks, ospreys and vultures. Endangered species such as peregrine falcons and whooping cranes are also affected.

In eastern North America up to half of all common loons found dead died from eating lead sinkers or jigs. Since people are looking for some scientific data to back this up and this is a little piece of scientific data. I guess though one really has to look for this.

From 1980 to 1986, the U.S. University of Minnesota raptor centre reported lead poisoning in 138 of 650 eagles treated at the centre. That is approximately one-fifth of the total birds treated at the centre. We know that lead is extremely dangerous to migratory birds, raptors, waterfowl and to human beings as well.

Lead weights lost in water will slowly release toxins into the environment. The rate at which the lead dissolves depends on levels of nitrates, chlorine and oxygen in the water. The waterfowl can ingest lead weights and also absorb toxins through the water. Lead poisoning affects birds in a number of ways as lead is broken down in the stomach and moves into the blood stream. The end result of that is that the majority of birds who ingest lead die. Some simply become sick from lead poisoning and very few of those recover, but by far the majority of them die. Depending on the amount of lead ingested, the death may occur quickly from acute lead poisoning or the birds may become weak and die of starvation from chronic lead poisoning. The end result is the loss of the animal.

Polluted sediment from accumulated toxins can affect aquatic bottom dwellers, the crab, shrimp, oysters and clams and make them unfit for human consumption. High mercury levels in some types of fish, as it was mentioned earlier, already limit the fish consumption of those species to once a week. We could expect that if Health Canada did the real checks it needed to do on lead poisoning, the same could occur for other species.

I have the privilege to live on a farm in Nova Scotia beside a lake. I watch the loons return to that lake every year. Over a number of years I have been treated to watching them on their nests and have watched the little loons with the mothers.

Statistics in Nova Scotia on the number of birds affected by lead sinkers and jigs is mostly unavailable because the majority of the birds that die from lead toxicity are not located. Many of them are eaten by scavengers, whether they be eagles or crows. Many of them sink to the bottom of the lake and are eaten by eels. The ones that are found have been linked to lead poisoning.

In the past few years alone a few loons have been found by the Nova Scotia department of natural resources and have been directly linked to lead toxicity from jigs. They found jigs inside loons. That is basically proof that the loons died from lead poisoning.

Loons are implicated species in the Atlantic region and are likely ingesting more jigs and lead fishing weights than of which we are aware. Jigs often have a lead core with a plastic covering to resemble leeches or small fish and can easily be mistakenly eaten by loons when they are searching for food. The problem is greater in some areas than in others, but we should take a look at the bill.

A number of groups support the legislation such as Ducks Unlimited Canada. The Canadian Wildlife Service has already initiated a ban in national parks in the national wildlife areas and Parks Canada has joined that ban. The Nova Scotia department of agriculture and fisheries has issued lead advisory pamphlets. The Cape Breton Sportfishing Advisory Council has issued a lead advisory in its pamphlets. The states of New Hampshire and Maine have banned lead sinkers and jigs with diameters of less than one inch and there are a number of other states with legislation on the books.

Certainly it is a free vote. I intend to support the bill. It is a very timely and good bill, and I hope that the rest of the parliamentarians would deem it responsible to do the same thing.

[Question No. 123—, April 24th, 2002]

How many people are affected by the court decision that Treaty 8 members are exempt from federal taxes, and how much money was received from federal taxation of Treaty 8 members in 2000, 1999, and 1998?

[National Defence, April 23rd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, Canadian soldiers have always represented our country with pride, none more so than Private Richard Green and his fellow soldiers, Canada's sons who have become the first Canadian combat casualties since Korea.

I never knew Private Green but I know his high school teachers and his friends. He was extremely well liked, respected by his peers, and incredibly proud to be in the military. Last year on his return from Bosnia he visited Forest Heights Community School and spoke to his former teachers about the job he was doing. He knew better than anyone the risks of being a soldier and accepted that responsibility with pride and honour.

All Canadians owe the freedoms we often take for granted to soldiers like Private Richard Green. Whether in combat or as peacekeepers they have defended our freedoms since this country was founded.

To Private Green's family, his fiancé Miranda and her family we offer our heartfelt condolences.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them.

[Privilege, April 22nd, 2002]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member for Durham asked for a comment on the remark about Fascism. I believe that was made in the heat of debate and I would hope that the hon. member for Esquimalt--Juan de Fuca was not serious about that comment. I honestly do not believe he was but I am not going to pretend to answer for him because that is not my job in the House.

The greater issue that the hon. member raised regarding private members' business is a frustrating issue. It is doubly frustrating when we have a majority government. The votes are whipped and we have a much more difficult job of bringing proposed legislation forth. We all understand that.

I agree with the point made that this debate is becoming more than a waste of time. This is taking the emphasis off what the motion was to begin with and putting the emphasis on the hon. member for Esquimalt--Juan de Fuca. Quite simply that is wrongheaded, so I am quite content to sit down and not debate this issue any longer.

[Privilege, April 22nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, there have been a number of points raised in the House today and I would like to add several more to that mix.

I listened closely to the debate and to a lot of points that I wish I did not have to listen to. However this is a serious matter. Unfortunately I was not present to attend the vote last week as I was in the Netherlands at an important international meeting on forest biodiversity. Everyone at that meeting, including ministers from the government, had the opportunity to speak. They had an opportunity to speak because there were clear rules at that meeting just the same as there are clear rules in the House.

I have heard a lot of discussion about the rights of parliamentarians , whether it is the right to vote or whether the Mace holds more rights than parliamentarians. Quite frankly the issue is that decorum is a right of parliament. There are a set of rules in this place. When the British parliament and many other parliaments around the world were originally set up the desks on the government side were separated from the opposition side by a space of two sword lengths so no damage could be done to members on either side of the House. We have rules so we do not settle events outside of here. Dueling no longer prevails. The reason we have rules is to prevent wars in this country.

Decorum is what this issue is about. The hon. member broke the rules and has certainly broken decorum. He did it in a manner that lost focus on the important issue he was trying to raise.

We are disgusted and appalled with the debate today. The debate is no longer about the government shutting down private members' business. The spotlight is acutely focused on the hon. member for Esquimalt--Juan de Fuca. That is a mistake. One cannot say one is sorry, but. There is no but when one says one is sorry. I am sorry stops at the y, one does not add to it.

This is a serious matter. The member picked up the Mace, apologized immediately, but then turned around the next day and said his act was premeditated. I am assuming his apology was not as contrite as it could have been because the act was premeditated. The member walked out of the House.

He cannot represent constituents and Canadians from out there. Too many parliamentarians think they can represent Canadians in the newspaper. Too many parliamentarians think they can represent their constituents by disagreeing with the Speaker and by refusing to apologize and then getting thrown out of the House.

As an aside to this debate I would like to make a contribution for the Chair's consideration. When members of parliament are asked to leave this Chamber, instead of going out in the hallway to a phalanx of reporters and immediately to a scrum, they be told to use the back door. If members cannot stand up in this place, admit they have made a mistake, say sorry, leave the but off of it and move on, then they have to question why they are here.

There is a clearer reason why we have rules. I have heard a lot of discussion today. I have heard the words softwood lumber, medical technology and helicopters. It seems to me that at one time in the history of this place the Reform Party and other members of parliament voted against the helicopter procurement. I disagreed with that vote but I did not take away their right to vote that way.

I was in agreement with the private member's bill. Had I been here and had the opportunity to vote I would have supported the bill. It is my understanding all of the opposition parties did support the member, every one, yet the opposition parties are not all speaking in support of the actions on the Mace. This is a time when it is important to look clearly at the series of events that have occurred.

Clearly, the member broke the rules of the House. He apologized and now wants to debate the issue. I do not intend to debate the issue much longer. There is more important work that needs to be done.

Several times in the debate I heard about the dollars spent on parliamentary work and committees. There are a lot of dollars spent. It does cost money to run parliament. Democracy does not come cheap. Most democracies around the world have come at the expense of great bloodletting and major wars.

If the member wants to represent his constituents then my recommendation is to step outside the bar and apologize and put it behind us and move on. I have heard a lot about taxpayers' dollars. If the member is not willing to do that I would suggest that, until he does, he should forfeit his pay as a parliamentarian. That is what the dollars are being spent on.

We know as parliamentarians we live a dual life. We live the life of a federal representative in the Parliament of Canada and we live a life as a constituent representative. A member can do half of the job as a parliamentarian, but half of the job has to be done in this building.

My suggestion is we put this behind us. We all know that the hon. member for Esquimalt--Juan de Fuca is capable of doing good work in this place. This debate has been a sideline. It has been a mistake and it has led us away from the real issue of why the debate was even begun.

[The Environment, April 22nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, today school children across Canada and around the world will be taking part in Earth Day activities: planting trees, learning about hazardous waste, water pollution, pollution emissions and how to reduce, reuse and recycle to minimize our impact on the environment.

Those are just some of the issues school children will be learning about as part of Earth Day activities. Six million Canadians will join 500 million people worldwide celebrating Earth Day.

The Progressive Conservative Party has always been recognized for its environmental stance, particularly as a result of its efforts at the Rio summit. However those efforts have been allowed to lapse by the current government. The Liberal government has turned its back on the environment having failed to pass a single piece of environmental legislation.

Earth Day reminds us all that we are stewards of this planet. I encourage all Canadians to take part in protecting their environment.

[Criminal Code, April 22nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, it is with some regret and trepidation that I rise to speak to Bill C-15B, the cruelty to animals legislation. I am sure all members agree that this legislation is seriously needed.

It has been 100 years since the legislation was updated. It is an issue of great importance to the country and an issue that needs to be dealt with by the Parliament of Canada. As I said, I rise with some regret and trepidation because as a member of parliament, a farmer and hunter, I cannot support the legislation. It needs to be improved and modernized.

What we have before us is the complete dereliction of duty by members of the Liberal government. This is a complete denial on their part of grappling with a difficult issue and coming out with an evenhanded and balanced approach to complex problems. This is not what has happened here.

I have no idea how rural members of the Liberal government, the agriculture critics, and the committee members will vote. Actually I have an idea how they will vote, but I do not know where they stand on this issue. I do not know why we have not heard more from the government side on this issue.

Bill C-15B is a bad piece of legislation. Anyone who has taken a moment's time to read it, who has a rudimentary understanding of rural issues, animal husbandry and cruelty toward animals legislation, and anyone who has the barest opinion on this subject cannot support the legislation. There is no way I can envision support for the legislation.

I received a letter from Doug Bacon, president of the Nova Scotia Federation of Agriculture. He writes:

The Nova Scotia Federation of Agriculture and its members have been following the progress of the cruelty to animals section of Bill C-15B with close attention. Since a key component of the agricultural industry relies on animals, this proposed legislation has the potential to seriously impact our livelihoods.

We are supportive of many aspects of the legislation, including tougher penalties for animal abuse, and while the previous Minister of Justice was very compelling and her amendments helpful, we are not convinced...

This is from people the legislation is directed toward. The legislation is not directed toward some university student who throws a cat out a window albeit that would be a horrific offence. The legislation is not directed toward pet owners who neglect, abuse and torture pets every day in Canada. The legislation is directed toward people who are legitimate animal owners.

I do not know what category animals would be included once the bill is passed. However I do know in what category they would not be included. They would not be put in the property section of the legislation. What are they then? The government thinks they are kids. They are not kids and are not about to be kids. It is time for the government to wake up and smell the roses. It is time for the government to look at the legislation for what it is.

The letter continues:

Bill C-15B must be amended to ensure legitimate animal practices will not be frivolously targeted. We need your support to ensure:

1. Animal cruelty provisions are put back in Part XI of the Criminal Code. Animals are property and such classification does not impede or prevent appropriate animal care practices;

2. If animal cruelty provisions stay in Part V.1, it must be amended to read, Cruelty to Animals: Private and Public Property.

If pet owners want to think that their animals are somehow public property or somehow different than agricultural or domestic animals, so be it. A provision should be put into the bill to accommodate those people. I happen to disagree with that, but animals should not be put under the provision of being property for farmers because that is a huge mistake which will do nothing but generate millions of dollars worth of lawsuits that are just waiting to happen.

The last amendment reads:

1. The definition of animal be amended as per the testimony of the Criminal Lawyers Association before the Standing Committee.

Mr. Bacon goes on to say:

These changes will not weaken the law but will serve to clearly establish in law the intention to protect the rights of animal users--an intention that has already been communicated by the minister. We are not asking for special treatment under the law, we are only asking for a law that will respect standard animal practices.

The bill was originally introduced in the House of Commons on December 1, 1999, as Bill C-17 and died on the order paper with the call of the election in October 2000. It is currently before parliament as Bill C-15B. It was studied by the justice committee and received testimony from numerous legal experts and representatives from both animal rights groups and organizations representing hunters, anglers, trappers, farmers and other stakeholders.

When re-introducing the bill, the Minister of Justice heeded the concerns of the opposition parties and stakeholders and made amendments from the previous Bill C-17 to provide clarification to the cruelty to animal provisions, encompassing those who willfully, recklessly or without regard to the consequence of their acts, cause unnecessary pain, suffering or injury to an animal. Despite these improvements further amendments were needed before the Progressive Conservative Party could support these provisions dealing with crimes against animals.

It is not because this is not an important issue. It is not because this issue needs to be dealt with. It is because this is a bad piece of legislation. Certainly it is not the job of parliamentarians to leave the decision on what constitutes cruelty up to the courts. If we were to leave every decision that needs to be made in this country up to the courts, we would live to rue that day. We would regret it, it is quite simple. We cannot, as representatives of Canadians and protectors of animal rights, take farm animals out from under the property act. That would be a huge mistake.

It is a mistake that this parliament and other parliaments and Canadians would pay for. It would be impossible to guarantee the safekeeping of every animal owned, and I say owned because they are property, by every farmer in Canada. Without question, the bill needs to come before parliament but it desperately needs to be amended. It needs to be improved upon. We need to put it back in the realm of a bill that when we leave the House after it is passed, because the government will pass it, we can say it is a good piece of legislation and we did the right thing.

I expect there will be many Liberal members of parliament who, if they vote for the bill, will hang their heads in shame after they have done it.