Jim Abbott

[Criminal Code, April 10th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to express a sentiment to the member who just spoke. I respect him as an individual, as I respect all members of the House, so I would have to believe that what he said he meant. However it also must be said, and I say this with controlled fury, that talk is cheap.

The member said that the Liberal government is committed to the protection of children and that it will spare no effort to protect children. Give me a break. It is absolute craziness to hear these words come out of the mouth of the hon. gentleman. I respect him as an individual which is why I find it difficult to stand here and contain the anger I have within me that this very fine gentleman would make comments like that when the record of the government shows that to be simply not true.

Let us take a look at the sex offender registry. As a result of a Canadian Alliance supply day motion, the House voted in favour of the government establishing a national sex offender registry. After one full year we brought another supply day motion to the House wherein we asked why the sex offender registry had not been put in place. One full year went by with no national sex offender registry. The government then whipped its members, as is the term in parliament, and had them on their feet to vote against the Canadian Alliance motion to put into effect, what had been passed by this parliament, a national sex offender registry. Less than two weeks after that vote, it declared it would establish the sex offender registry.

The government talks and talks but does nothing about so many serious issues. I ask the Liberals: What was the difference in time? What was the difference in the occasion where they had one full year to put the national sex registry in place and they did not? We prompted them to do it again on the basis of the unanimous consent by the House of Commons and then 14 days later, having thought there was a sufficient amount of time for Canadians to forget, they slipped it in and said that they might just get around to doing that.

On March 26, Mr. Justice Duncan Shaw of the British Columbia supreme court released his reasons for a decision regarding the child pornography charges brought against John Robin Sharpe. In his decision, Mr. Justice Shaw convicted Mr. Sharpe of the possession of pornographic photographs of children but acquitted him on charges related to his personal writings that described violent sexual relations between adult men and young boys. The judge characterized Mr. Sharpe's writing as “Sado-masochistic scenes of violence and sex, directed at boys generally 12 years of age and younger”. He found that “The scenes portrayed are, by almost any moral standard, repugnant”.

However it was Justice Shaw's opinion that these writings did not actively induce or encourage sexual activity between adult men and young boys and therefore, even though it “arguably glorifies the acts described”, he stated that the material did not meet the definition of child pornography. He went on to conclude that even if it did constitute child pornography, this graphic and violent material was not criminal because it had artistic merit.

This is a gigantic loophole that the Liberals are permitting to stand where young children are being exploited by the animals in our society. What are they doing about that case?

The whole issue of innocence by reasonable doubt which would apply to a murder, a bank robbery, or any other offence that is being judged before a court is applied to the question of artistic merit. One person said that there just might be some artistic merit, that if we were to take a couple of sentences from the drivel and the filth that Mr. Sharpe has put out about these 12 year old boys there just might be a little bit of artistic merit.

Sharpe walked. He walked because of the same law with respect to innocence because of some small doubt. He walked because of that application of the law.

The judge made these findings in the face of evidence provided by a psychiatric expert who deals extensively with sex offenders and child molesters. The expert testified that the material produced by Mr. Sharpe was much worse than other child pornography he had ever seen before. He noted that it celebrated these abnormal sexual relations and that it conveyed the idea that sexually related violence directed at young boys by adult men is enjoyable.

Mr. Justice Shaw dismissed any moral evaluation as a consideration in determining whether something has artistic merit. He stated that his determination of whether this graphic and violent material had artistic merit must be made on a totally amoral basis.

Unless we apply moral values, who says that sex between children and adults is wrong? That is a moral judgment. The law is a moral law. Otherwise the law simply does not stand. It does not apply. There is no basis for the law.

Of course it is absolutely unconscionably repugnant that adult men would have sex with small children. I cannot imagine any decent human being in the world, let alone in Canada, who would say otherwise, but that is a moral judgment. How can we say that a moral value cannot be applied to something that is totally immoral by any standard?

In my opinion the reasoning of Mr. Justice Shaw is totally misguided. Morality is the basis for law in every society, including our Judeo-Christian society in the west. His reasoning demonstrates a lack of understanding as to why these laws are enacted in the first place.

Simply put, it is through our criminal laws that our society has imposed moral disapproval for the exploitation of children by adults. To try to understand or justify the prohibition against the violent sexual exploitation of children in an amoral context is futile. No wonder the judge believed he had no alternative but to acquit Mr. Sharpe of these serious charges.

If the bill for all of the legal reasons the Liberal member talked about is deficient, why is the justice department not doing something about it? Why is the justice department studying and studying? Why is the justice department not doing something to protect Canada's children? I do not understand this.

[An Act to Amend the Criminal Code (Cruelty to Animals and Firearms) and the Firearms Act, April 8th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I would reflect what my colleague has just said. Clearly there is a concern about the abuse of animals. There is not one member of the House of Commons who is not concerned to see that steps are taken for proper protection of animals, but it is not quite that simple. The difficulty is that in this law we are opening up to attack a lot of people who own animals, whether they are domesticated animals or animals which are farmed.

I would like to read a couple of comments from people who love the kind of wording that is included in the legislation. The California based animal rights organization In the Defence of Animals, IDA, launched a campaign called “They are not our property; we are not their owners”. According to the IDA website the campaign proposes nothing less than to change society's relationship with animals. The following few quotations indicate that the campaign has strong support among animal rights activists. The quotations also reinforce the argument that the concept of property is fundamental to understanding the animal rights agenda.

Lynn Manheim, a columnist for Letters for Animals said:

Ultimately there can be no real progress until society undergoes a paradigm shift, a new way of looking at the world which opens the door to new systems of interacting with it. We have seen most strikingly with the women's movement, language plays an essential part in such a shift. Establishing legal rights for animals will be virtually impossible while they continue to be called and though of as “its” and “things”.

Alan Berger, executive director of the Animal Protection Institution said:

Animal Protection Institute is pleased to endorse IDA's They are not our Property...campaign. Society's perception of animals as property must be changed before legal rights for animals can be established. The time is right to make such a change.

This one is from Kristin von Kreisler, author of

The Compassion of Animals:

IDA's They are not our property campaign will prod us along in our moral evolution. Just as we have moved beyond “owning” people after the Civil War, we now need to move beyond “owning” animals, who deserve a far greater understanding in our society than simply being treated as property or things.

This is one from Jane Goodall of the Jane Goodall Institute:

In the legal sense, animals are regarded as “things”, mere objects that can be bought, sold, discarded or destroyed at an owner's whim. Only when animals can be regarded as “persons” in the eyes of the law will it be possible to give teeth to the often fuzzy laws protecting animals from abuse.

Let me repeat the objective of this particular activist: Only when animals can be regarded as persons in the eyes of the law will it be possible to give teeth to the often fuzzy laws protecting animals from abuse.

Those are the people and the organizations the government is not taking into account. The wording of its legislation is simply not precise enough to stop this kind of fuzzy headed thinking.

This quote is from Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson, author of When Elephants Weep and

Dogs Never Lie About Love:

How can we own another person? We cannot. Why then should we think we can own another being, a dog, a cat or a horse? The law may tell us we can, but the law also told us in the past that men owned their wives, parents their children, slaveowners their slaves. I now realize how wrong it is to consider myself an animal “owner”. Language is no trivial matter, how we use it affects how we think and then how we act.

We can no longer own a dog, a cat or a horse. Perhaps this person would also like to give them the vote. I do not know. This is another quote:

I looked up the word “property” in the dictionary. It said, “a thing or things owned”. To me, this makes it clear that, by definition, animals can never be considered property. A “thing” cannot love. A “thing” cannot act from compassion. A “thing” will never risk its own life to help a stranger or even a friend.

This is so fuzzy it is almost, in my humble opinion, slightly humorous. But it is not humorous because we are talking about the lives and the livelihood of people who are involved in the agricultural industry.

We are talking about the potential effect of criminal prosecution against anybody who owns an animal. As human beings we can own animals. Let us be clear, that is exactly where I am coming from.

When we look at the various motions by the member for Selkirk--Interlake that clause 8 be deleted, if we are unable to pass the amendments that are required to prevent harassment prosecutions of farmers, ranchers, medical researchers and all other Canadians who use animals for their livelihood, we should delete the entire animal cruelty section. That is where we are coming from. We must be more precise.

There is another motion we will be opposing. It is Motion No. 4 by the member Ancaster--Dundas--Flamborough--Aldershot which states:

That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing line 5 on page 3 with the following:

“other animal that has the capacity to experience pain.”

We are opposing it because the amendment simply changes the definition of animal from a vertebrate other than a human being to any other animal that has the capacity to feel pain, with emphasis on the word feel, a vertebrate other than a human being and any other animal who has the capacity to experience pain. We are opposed to either definition as both broaden the term “animal” in the context of criminal code offences.

We are aggressively opposed to Bill C-15B for the simple reason that it opens the door to fuzzy headed thinking about the ownership of animals and the ability of people to work with animals within our society in the humane ways in which they are presently working with them.

Again I want to make it perfectly clear that every member of the Canadian Alliance and I as the member for Kootenay--Columbia are concerned about the potential abuse of animals, livestock and domestic animals. We are all concerned about that. However the proposed law does not cut it. It is far too imprecise. That imprecision will open the door to the potential criminal prosecution of people in my constituency and any other rural constituency where people are dealing with domesticated animals or livestock.

The member for Selkirk--Interlake has moved Motion No. 5 which states:

That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing line 7 on page 3 with the following:

“who, wilfully or recklessly, and in contravention of generally accepted industry standards,”

The amendment is designed to better protect farmers, ranchers, medical researchers and others who depend upon animals for their livelihood from nuisance prosecutions by animal rights activists. Any member in the House, anybody reading Hansard , anybody watching this debate on television who does not believe that the bill will not open farmers, ranchers and dog owners to the potential of criminal action as a result of the activity of animal rights activists probably does not know what day of the week it is.

The former Minister of Justice called on a number of amendments that will actually straighten out a certain amount of this badly flawed bill. We are not in opposition just to be in opposition. In fact with respect to Motion No. 6 the opposition will vote in favour of the government's amendment to its own bill. It takes some tiny steps toward resolving this imprecise situation of which I spoke.

We have gone over the bill with a fine-toothed comb. On balance, unfortunately there is a tremendous amount lacking and a tremendous amount of potential danger within Bill C-15B.

[Passing of the Queen Mother, April 8th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I count it an exceptional privilege as a member of the Canadian House of Commons to stand here to pay tribute to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, known to the world as the Queen Mum.

She was the mother of our present sovereign, Queen Elizabeth II, but the Queen Mother showed us that a woman does not have to be a mother to become a grandmother. A grandmother is a loving, kind, strong, resourceful, dedicated, disciplined human being who imparts important values to those she loves. The Queen Mum truly was a royal grandmother to the world, and what an exceptional person she was. As nanny to us all she won the hearts of millions around the globe with her warmth and sympathy.

The Queen Mother made her last trip to Canada in 1989 to mark the 50th anniversary of the 1939 royal visit that was so important in solidifying the continuation of the house of Windsor. After stepping out of the same 1939 Buick convertible that had carried her and her late husband during their visit 50 years earlier, she was greeted by a crowd of 10,000 people on Parliament Hill. In a short address in both official languages the Queen Mother said:

I rejoice that the bonds of friendship between Canadians and the Royal Family have become even closer, perhaps in part because they have grown year by year more personal.

Canadians remember the former Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon with affection as evidence of the special bond that she forged with Canada. She said:

I lost my heart to Canada and to Canadians, and I assure my sentiments have not changed with the passage of time.

In 1939 she first toured the country with her husband, King George VI. Thousands of Canadians lined railway tracks for a glimpse of the royal couple. Gesine Stone, mother-in-law of one of my staff has a cute story about that trip.

Two years ago she was cleaning out some old photos and came across a black and white picture she had taken when she was in nurses training at Vancouver General Hospital. It was a picture of the Queen Mum with King George in an open car touring downtown Vancouver.

For this young farm girl from Saskatchewan being in Vancouver and seeing the King and Queen was a pretty big happening. Mrs. Stone decided she would get the picture blown up and sent a copy to the Queen Mum at Clarence House early last year with a little story about the picture taking. Surprise of surprises, she got a response from London in a special envelope with a royal seal from the Queen's lady-in-waiting acknowledging and thanking her for taking the time to send the picture.

Let us make no mistake. The Queen Mum was also a pillar of strength. During the war a crazed intruder had hidden in the Queen Mother's bedroom behind a curtain. When he leapt out and grabbed her by the ankle she was cool as a cucumber, calmly listening to the man's tale of woe until she was able to ring a bell for help.

When in South Africa with the King in 1947 a man lunged at their open Daimler. He grabbed hold and would not let her go. It turned out he was trying to give Princess Elizabeth a gift but no one knew about that then. While the King shouted at the chauffeur to accelerate, the Queen Mother performed the remarkable feat of holding the man at bay with the point of her personal parasol in her right hand while she continued to wave regally to the crowds with her left.

In Westminster last week MPs recalled anecdotes of a high spirited woman with a wicked sense of humour. Paying tribute to the Queen Mum's sharp edged sense of humour, Prime Minister Blair told the story of the same royal visit to South Africa when she was confronted by a disgruntled Boer War veteran. “I can never forgive what the English did to my people“, the man told her. The Queen Mother replied, “Oh, I do understand. We in Scotland often feel just the same”. She showed strength by example. The Queen Mother did what needed to be done when it needed to be done.

As we all know she and Princess Diana were estranged for years before Diana's death in Paris. In the tide of mourning that swept Britain after Diana's death, the Royal Family did not play its cards at all well. It was not as clear as it needed to be that the Royals shared the people's grief. Was monarchy irretrievably out of touch? Many thought so and once again began calling for an end to it. The Queen Mother's soldiering on with her duties can only have reassured Britain that the monarchy still had worth. In spite of her severe differences with Diana, the Queen Mother knew what she had to do and she did it.

The sight of that very old woman walking so painfully into Westminster Abbey for Diana's funeral, the familiar smile so remarkably fresh and sincere, spoke volumes about a rich past of devotion, steadfastness and honour. For the Queen Mother the monarchy was more important than her differences with Diana. She did not let past differences deter her from doing what was right.

The Queen Mother was fortunate too, having an amazing physical condition right to the end, or was it her sheer personal determination? The Queen Mother once famously told an aide “If you ignore an illness it will go away”. For much of her life she was able to prove that. She was 101 when she passed way, remarkably healthy and engaged until her final days.

The Queen Mother had been in declining health since last Christmas when she developed a bad cough and severe chest infection. What will never be known is what effect the death of her 71 year old daughter Princess Margaret on February 9 had on her remaining will and spirit.

In recent days advisers reported she had remained perky, if increasingly frail, still able to follow her beloved horse racing news from a wheelchair. In spite of her amazing age headlines around the world said it all: “We all felt we knew her”.

As the Queen Mum she won over legions of fans from the post-war generations. She charmed them with her wild hats and her reported enjoyment of a gin and Dubonnet or two, and she conducted herself with a mixture of dignity and self-deprecation that somehow kept her free from the sting of scandal which diminished other members of the Royal Family one by one.

The appeal of the Queen Mother cut across international boundaries and class barriers. She was often referred to as everyone's favourite grandmother.

John Aimers, dominion chairman of the Monarchist League of Canada, said it was her ability to reach out to the people that made her so popular. “She sought nothing for herself, never losing her royalty, never becoming familiar. Yet we could all identify with her”, he said.

As a counsellor and a friend, a personification of both the monarchy and its humanity, she made a personal connection. Every one of us felt we knew her. Mr. Aimers said it was her relaxed yet regal style that endeared her to so many. He said:

She never reinvented herself, didn't have spin doctors or image consultants--she was utterly herself. She gave pleasure to others and, my goodness, that was her agenda, and in a world where so many people have agendas for the me and the my...she stressed the we, the us, the sense of community and getting along with people.

The Queen Mum above all was a very special person. In spite of her position she did not make people feel uncomfortable. As a matter of fact quite the opposite.

In 1987 she helped celebrate the 125th anniversary of the Black Watch of Canada of which she was Colonel-in-Chief at a posh Montreal hotel. When the ball ended she heard music coming from a nearby room and asked what was going on. Someone said there was a high school prom and she said “Oh, let's join them”. The kids were just stunned. She was the queen of fun. From her daily gin and tonics to her love of parties the Queen Mum had an effervescent enthusiasm for life.

Harold Nicolson, then charge d'affaires at the British embassy in Berlin, met the Yorks when they stayed at the embassy on their way back from a wedding in Norway in 1929. He found her “delightful, incredibly gay and simple. It was a tragedy that she should be royal”.

Chips Channon, a Chicago born British MP whose diaries are a lively chronicle of London society in the 1920s and 1930s, described her this way:

Well-bred, kind, gentle and slack, always charming, always gay, pleasant and smiling, mildly flirtatious in a very proper, romantic, old-fashioned Valentine sort of way. She makes every man feel chivalrous and gallant toward her.

While always socially correct, she knew how to tweak things and still be perfectly proper. Once a guest sitting on the couch with her dropped a biscuit into his tea. He was mortified and did not dare fish out the biscuit with his fingers in her presence. She giggled and told him she was going to turn away from him for a few seconds to attend to something, and of course she could not see what he did when her back was turned.

Prince Charles, her first and favourite grandchild, once said “She belongs to the priceless band of human beings whose greatest gift is to enhance life for others through her own effervescent enthusiasm for life”.

She was the belle of the ball of her post-first world war generation, though on her own terms. This was the time of the flapper, the cocktail swilling women with bobbed hair and loose morals in some parts of society, but she remained, even in her youth, resolutely old fashioned. She was never a prude.

It was reported there were many gay men on her staff who she affectionately referred to as “my knitting brigade”.

According to a well known anecdote, she once called down to the servants' quarters at Clarence House as the cocktail hour approached saying “I don't know about any of you queens down there but this Queen up here wants a drink”.

She loved the outdoors, could fly-fish with the best of them and was not afraid to back a loser at the track.

Through it all, one of the most endearing and enduring images of the Queen Mother was that of a passionate sportswoman who loved nothing better than to check on her race horses or head to the countryside for an afternoon by the river dressed in Wellingtons and pearls. Her love of the outdoors and the sporting world was legendary.

Warmed by the odd glass of gin, the Queen Mother would make frequent visits to the stables even on the coldest of days to check the horses and watch them train.

In warmer weather, however, she liked trudging along the riverbanks to enjoy one of her other favourite sports, fly-fishing. The Queen Mother enjoyed trout and salmon fishing and could wield her fishing rod with the pros. For a time she was also the patron of the Salmon and Trout Association.

She was particularly fond of fishing on the River Dee and was long a familiar figure along the riverbank with her corgis, Billy and Bee, at her side. Occasionally she would startle the odd angler who, looking up from his or her rod, would find themselves in the company of royalty.

Believe it or not, it was only when she turned 85 that Prince Charles finally persuaded his grandmother to stop wading out into fast running streams. This was said by Arthur Bousfield who has written extensively about the Queen Mother. He said “They were afraid she would fall over and be carried away. It was evidently with great reluctance that she finally gave it up”.

British liberal democrat leader, Charles Kennedy, also a Scot, remembered the Queen Mother as fiercely energetic even in her nineties. Having dinner with her one evening he noticed her personal detective, who travelled with her everywhere, was deeply asleep in an armchair. When the man awoke he told Kennedy with embarrassment “The problem is I'm just exhausted. I simply cannot keep up with her.

The newspaper headline says it all so well, “Few have given so much, to so many, for so long”.

This is a death that need not be mourned. I see the remembrance of the Queen Mom as a lesson for us all. Everyone of us is getting older day after day. As we see our roles in life changing, as our family and friends move away and as our situations evolve which one of us from time to time has not felt just a little bit useless?

Maybe we are the mum or dad who used to be essential to our children's well-being. Maybe we are the reason why a church group, a neighbourhood block watch, a service club or a youth organization used to happen. Life has gone on. Life is passing us by and perhaps we indulge in a little self pity. Who cares? Who needs us anyway?

The Queen Mother was a grandmother to the world without giving birth to the world because she cared and she shared. A grandmother is a loving, kind, strong, resourceful person dedicated and disciplined. She is a human being who imparts important values to those who she loves.

When my staff member's mother-in-law, Mrs. Stone, got her reply from the Queen's lady in waiting she shared it with her friends. Many seniors' lives were made just a little bit brighter because of the thoughtfulness of the Queen Mum. Mrs. Stone and her family will have a treasure forever.

The Queen Mother's life and now her death causes me to reach out, to be real and to enjoy life but above all I want to be a great-grandfather.

[Arts and Culture, March 21st, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, that is rather interesting because the Norwegian ambassador confirmed today in a letter to the Globe and Mail that the foreign affairs department and the embassy contacted Heritage Canada. Ambassador Havnen was looking for alternative sources of funding; the minister was interested in alternative venues.

Why does the minister not just admit that she never intended to assist with the funding unless the event was moved to the Hamilton art gallery whose chairman just happens to be Jordan Livingston, a significant campaign donor and longtime political friend of the minister?

[Arts and Culture, March 21st, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, there must be something about Scandinavian countries the Liberals do not like. First they send a scandal ridden politician to Denmark and now the heritage minister interferes with an upcoming royal visit from the king and queen of Norway.

The minister claims the Sami Inuit exhibit was cancelled in Toronto because of lack of funding. Ironically, if the venue were changed to Hamilton, funding from Heritage Canada would magically appear.

The minister is quoted as saying that she would love to fund the event, but is she not really saying that she would love to fund the event as long as it is in her home town of Hamilton?

[Species at Risk Act, March 21st, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, with your indulgence, before I speak to the bill and to the motions I want to acquaint you with the fact that I just received a telephone call from a constituent who raised a very interesting point. He is a senior in my constituency. He raised the point, with respect to the indexing of government pensions, that now we have a very peculiar situation in British Columbia.

As a result of the downloading of the government in Victoria, many of the costs, prescription and otherwise, that are facing him now are putting him in a position where he will be looking to the federal government for assistance to help him meet these costs. It is a very interesting situation in which we find ourselves when we have a complication between the federal and provincial governments.

Speaking specifically to the motions in Group No. 3, the issue of socioeconomic interests in public consultation is one that is exceptionally important in my constituency.

I will reacquaint members with the fact that I live in one of the most beautiful parts of Canada. It is right in the Rocky Mountains on the southeast corner of the province of British Columbia. We have caribou, moose, grizzly bears, lynx and cougar. We have every imaginable kind of animal in our area.

I take a look at the issue of the government deciding relative to COSEWIC, which stands for the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada, and take a look at some of the decisions that COSEWIC has already made in my constituency as it specifically relates to socioeconomic interests, particularly in the city of Revelstoke.

Revelstoke is a very interesting city with 8,500 people, nestled down between three valleys. They are isolated to the east. One goes over Roger's Pass to Golden which is an hour and a half drive. To the west one drives for approximately an hour to another small community called Sicamous. To the south one drives for the longest time over a ferry and on down to Nelson, about a two and a half hour drive. This is a community of 8,500 people who are completely isolated in one of the most pristine and beautiful parts of Canada.

The community has been hit a number of times economically by virtue of the fact that there are more responsible and sustainable logging practices that are now being practised. As a consequence, there has been a downturn in the level of employment available to the people. I commend the industry, by the way, for the fact that it has adapted very readily to these more sustainable logging practices and they truly are sustainable.

However, in picking up the slack, investors came in. Because of the exceptionally heavy snow load, which is typical for the Revelstoke area, and the beautiful snowmobiling terrain, investors came in with millions of dollars and invested in lodges right in or immediately around this isolated area of 8,500 people and were ready for the snowmobilers to come. They created a service, an availability for this recreation.

All of a sudden, out of the clear blue sky, we had COSEWIC looking at the issue of the mountain caribou in the area. It changed the listing of the caribou and suddenly many of the trails were eliminated immediately.

For anyone to suggest that I or anyone in my party is not concerned about red listed or endangered species would be completely inappropriate because we are. The mountain caribou are a very special species of animal.

The fact of the matter is that there are many pressures on the Rocky Mountain caribou, not the least of which are predators. A predator eradication program used to be in effect in that area but the program no longer exists. As a result, the cougars, the wolves and coyotes just go after the caribou. It is something that simply is not taken into account.

Something else that is really very interesting is that as COSEWIC and other organizations have attempted to get a handle on exactly what is involved with the caribou, they have been flying in and dropping nets over the caribou herds. The caribou thrash around in the net until the helicopter can land and the members of these organizations can shoot the caribou with something that puts them under. They radio collar the thing, take the net off and then fly away in the helicopter. It is rather interesting that the caribou now are spooked by helicopters.

One of the other very responsible recreations in that area is helicopter skiing. All of a sudden people are saying that part of the problem here is the helicopter skiing. Excuse me, if they are going to spook the bejabbers out of the caribou by doing these types of studies, I guess they will run when they hear a helicopter.

We have another one in terms of endangered species and socioeconomic interests. In the far southeast corner of British Columbia is an area of primary growth forest. It is an area that is overpopulated with grizzly. Anyone who does not know anything about it will say that the grizzly are an endangered species and then they get into a whole list of prohibitions. In that particular part of my constituency there is an overabundance of grizzly. They are literally crawling all over each other.

Studies are being done on the grizzly, fortunately not by helicopter, whereby, through the genetic coding of hair taken from the grizzly which happens to be on their scratching trees, the number of grizzly in that area can be determined. However that is not good enough. We have the Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society that is proposing a total preserve in this area to protect the grizzly. Why would it do that ? I believe I just said that we have an overabundance of grizzly. There has been responsible resource extraction in the area by the forestry and mining companies. There are open areas for the forage of the grizzly, which can then go over the U.S. border without going through customs, get into Glacier National Park in the United States or go over the Alberta border and not pay any more provincial sales tax and they get into the Waterton Lakes area which is primary forest.

All of a sudden we have a situation where we have people, who I can only presume are well-meaning, saying that we have to protect the grizzly when there is an overabundance. I have said it before and I say it again, like Yogi Berra said, “If it ain't broke don't fix it.”

Are there problems with grizzly in other areas even within my constituency? Yes, there are. There are problems with grizzly because of the encroachment of human beings into an area. There are problems with grizzly because of the imbalance of the predator to prey situation that has occurred because of human management.

With respect to this Group No. 3, the whole issue of taking a look at the socioeconomic relationship before there is any movement to take definitive action against people and against human activity that is under the species at risk bill is totally inappropriate. I say that on behalf of the people of Kootenay--Columbia who live and experience the wonderful wildlife that we have in Canada.

[Jean-Paul Riopelle, March 14th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today on behalf of Her Majesty's official loyal opposition in response to the unfortunate passing of Mr. Riopelle.

Yesterday we honoured Herb Gray who, in his own way, brought a very special character to politics in his devotion to Canada.

Today, as we think about Jean-Paul Riopelle, we recognize that in Canada, no matter what the arena, we have some giants. Clearly, from the research I have done on Mr. Riopelle, he was just exactly that.

I would like to take just a slightly different tack to an ordinary approach. I would like to look at some of the techniques, the technical aspects, of what he brought to us. I am reading from The Canadian Encyclopedia where it states:

Under the influence of surrealism, with its emphasis on the “liberation of the human spirit,” Riopelle moved from figurative painting to the gestural abstractions for which he is now famous. After WWII, against the growing standardization and depersonalization of industrial capitalism, Riopelle's paintings were characterized by personal improvisation and “raw” gestures that attested to the uniquely human process by which they were made. To increase the spontaneity of his art, he used several experimental techniques: supple gestural brushstrokes...; the controlled drip technique of squeezing paint directly from the tube onto the canvas...; and, in the early 1950s, the use of the palette knife to create mosaiclike surfaces of paint--a hallmark of his later style.

The reason I read from this rather technical description of art--and of course art cannot be broken down simply into techniques-was to show the creativeness of this individual.

I would concur with the minister of heritage that truly Canada has lost a giant in the field of art. He was certainly a tremendous credit to all of us as Canadians. Our country mourns his loss.

[Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, March 13th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, in a world of political spin doctors and image makers Canadians are understandably cynical about the House of Commons and the political process. They want and deserve access and accountability from their politicians in a thorough and thoughtful format.

There is a radio program that does just that. It is called The House . It is heard for one hour every Saturday morning on CBC Radio One. For Canadians who want to be informed about what is really going on in Ottawa, the program digs through the spin and image making. The House has a huge listening audience but that is not good enough for CBC management. As the CBC thrashes around looking for the perfect listener, as it tries to attract a younger audience, it is thinking about dropping The House . The House audience does not represent the CBC's new target listeners. CBC Radio One, paid for by Canadian taxpayers, is the perfect medium to give Canadians a realistic snapshot of politics in Canada.

Hundreds of thousands of Canadians have said they want The House or they would not be listening. This is not rocket science, it is radio reality.

[Point of Order, March 12th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, every now and then I find myself, to my surprise, agreeing with the member for Mississauga West. I completely agree with him about the issue of a safe third country. I also agree with the start of his speech where he talked about the fact that the government was not prepared for September 11. During the course of his dissertation I was wondering what he had against people who owned pickup trucks. In my constituency we call them country limousines.

It was the former Reform Party, now the Canadian Alliance, who was driving home the issue to the government that the refugee determination system was completely broken down. It was this party that was driving home the fact that the ports police should never have been disbanded. It was this party that finally forced the solicitor general into giving some funding and some upgrade to the CPIC system enabling it to track criminal activity.

The minister for international financial institutions, who is in the House with us today, said yesterday that there had not been any kind of study relative to the cost or the benefit or how much profit there would be as far as the airport tax was concerned. That $24 charge would take a highly creative and inventive airline like WestJet to its knees because of its low cost and the fact that it was tacking an additional $24. The minister admitted yesterday that he and his government had no idea how bad this was going to be for WestJet.

Apart from the $24, considering that his government has finally, as a result of September 11, decided to put between $200 million and $250 million into security, how does he feel that $200 million to $250 million measures up to the $700 million and counting that the government has already put into a useless gun registry that simply registers duck hunter's guns?

This is the most ridiculous comparison in the world. The government is putting three times as much money and taxpayer resources into a useless registry system as it is putting into a system that would give Canadians safe and secure borders in our country. Would the hon. member care to comment on that?

[Harvey Kirck, February 19th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, long time news anchor Harvey Kirck has died at age 73. Harvey, who was proud to say he was never known as Mr. Kirck, had the common touch and the gruff, direct delivery that endeared him to a generation of Canadian listeners.

Born in 1928, he began his long career at radio and TV stations around Ontario and out west in Calgary. He spent 20 years as the anchor and co-anchor of the CTV Evening News , surpassing the venerable Walter Cronkite in longevity and certainly matching him in the sense of trust and respect in which he was regarded by his audience.

Though he retired from the evening news in 1984 he did not leave broadcasting. He had stints with Canada AM and W5 and displayed his simple love for his country with shows like Inside Canada and Sketches of Our Town . Harvey Kirck signed off his last newscast with the words “With a heartfelt thank you, I think we should carry on as usual”.

On behalf of the House I thank Harvey for years of excellent service to Canadian journalism.