Keith Martin

[Criminal Code, March 30th, 1998]

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure today to speak on Bill C-211. I would like to compliment my colleague, the member for Langley—Abbotsford, for putting this bill together in conjunction with the police. This member also, in the last Parliament, put together a victims bill of rights which unfortunately was held up in this House even though the police, victims and Canadian society desperately wanted the bill to go forward in an effort to protect innocent civilians.

I hope Bill C-211, which is supported by the police and the public, will not languish in committee and in the House. I hope members from across party lines will see this as a bill for the general public. It will make our streets safer for everyone.

It would be wise for us to look at the contents of Bill C-211. The bill establishes that a police officer may arrest without warrant, detain and bring before a justice a person the officer reasonably believes is in breach of a condition of bail, a probation order, a conditional sentence or a statutory release, parole or unescorted temporary absence.

What this bill states is that if a person who has been convicted of an offence and is out on bail, is being released with conditions or is on parole and is a threat to society, he or she can be arrested without a warrant. For example, if a pedophile is released on condition and is out wandering around a park with children, the current situation, believe it or not, is that a police officer has to get a warrant in order to apprehend that person who may be wandering around and threatening those children.

Currently the system does not allow police officers to apprehend a person who may be in violation of his or her parole or release conditions. We have created a system that forces police officers to go to a judge to get a warrant. By that time the individual, for example the pedophile, would have left. This is another example of the system hamstringing the ability of police officers to do their job of protecting innocent civilians.

Bill C-211 gets to the heart of the matter. It enables police officers to carry out their duty to serve and protect innocent people. It is a common sense bill. It is a bill that should never have come to this House because one would have thought this government would have put it forth. But it did not. That is why the member for Langley—Abbotsford has put forth this bill. It is a necessary bill which I ask the government to support without condition.

It is important to understand that this bill was supported by the police. The police worked very closely with the member to put this bill forward. The police now have no authority to arrest an offender for breach of parole. That is why a policeman has to look at a situation and ask whether he has to arrest a person or not. If he does, he then has to run to a judge to do something about it. By that time it is too late. A pedophile in breach of parole running around a park perhaps might commit an act too heinous for us to comprehend.

Various conditions may be placed on a person on probation. Section 495 of the conditional release act permits the arrest of a person without warrant when a peace officer finds the person in breach of any of the conditions of probation. However, an offender who is convicted and sentenced to a term of incarceration in a penitentiary may subsequently be released into the community with conditions.

Those conditions can be violated but as it stands right now, if a police officer sees the person violating those conditions he has to get a warrant from a judge for the person's arrest.

Bill C-211 will enable police officers to carry out their duties, use their judgment and discretion and arrest people who have already been convicted of similar offences or of offences related to those conditions.

Our justice critic has been speaking for a long time about issues related to revamping the Young Offenders Act. He has continually asked the justice minister to do something about the Young Offenders Act. He has asked her to modify it, to add an element of fairness that would ensure that the Young Offenders Act gives the courts and the police the ability to protect innocent civilians. It is important to realize that the bulk of innocent civilians who are victims of youth crime are youth themselves. In many ways the Young Offenders Act does not do justice to our ideal of protecting innocent people. As such it should be revamped. My colleague has continually asked the Minister of Justice what her plan is, yet we have come up against a brick wall.

I put forward a private member's motion which has had an hour of debate. It seeks to address the prevention of crime. If we are to prevent crime we have to look at the origins of crime. There is much talk about this now because of the recent situation in Arkansas where an 11-year old and a 13-year old boy slaughtered a group of students in their school. There is a terrible situation of youth crime in our community, in particular violent youth crime. It has been on the rise for some time but it has flattened out over this past year. Nonetheless it is a situation that the public finds distasteful, in particular the Canadian youth.

How do we deal with this? There is a two pronged approach. My colleagues have spoken very eloquently about how to deal with those who are committing the offences but we must also deal with prevention. Prevention does not deal with addressing a 13-year old or a 14-year old who has already been incarcerated. Prevention deals with time zero when a person is pregnant. In that way we can deal with issues like substance abuse and the epidemic of fetal alcohol syndrome which contributes to the criminal element in our society. We can deal with child abuse. We can deal with improper parenting skills. The Reform Party has given the government many ways to strengthen the family that would ensure parents have the ability to take care of their children.

My motion deals with that and it is in sync with that. My motion enables us to identify families at risk, to identify situations in which parents may not have learned to be good parents themselves. We can thereby introduce programs that would teach them what proper discipline is, what substance abuse does to them and their children. They can be taught about proper parenting skills and proper nutrition.

All these things are critically important if children are to be able to have their basic needs met from time zero so they can build the pillars of a normal psyche.

Many children who are in jail have their psyches damages quite significantly as a result of situations that have taken place. While that does not exonerate them from the acts that they commit later, it does make us understand that if we are to prevent crime we have to address the origins which start in many cases at time zero.

There are a number of model plans in place. For example, the Perry preschool program in Michigan showed that there was a $6 savings for every $1 invested. It decreased the amount of youth crime by 50% and the amount of teen pregnancies by 60%. Children stayed in school longer. It is an example of a program that has been in existence for 35 years which has been analysed scientifically and shows what works to prevent crime.

The member for Moncton was a leader in developing the Moncton head start program which has been very effective in decreasing youth crime. What is conditional is that parents are involved in the situation. If only the children are involved it does not work. The parents have to be involved too.

In closing, Bill C-211 by my colleague from Langley—Abbotsford is a bill that the House should support. It is another example of a bill put forth by the member in the interest of public safety. It will protect innocent civilians. It will enable the police to do their job. It is absolutely imperative the government listen to the bill, support the bill and push the bill forward for the safety of all Canadians.

[Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997, March 26th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, the bottom line is to ensure Canadians get their health care when they need it. I am a physician. I did not take any pleasure in telling elderly people who are in severe pain that they will have to wait 16 months before they can get a new hip.

The day that member or any other member chooses to go into a hospital and see what is going on for real is the day they will see we have a multi-tier system. We have a system where Canadians are not getting their health care in many cases when they need it. We see people suffering left, right and centre. The member should open up her eyes and understand we have a multi-tier system. The Canada Health Act is violated left, right and centre. It is the poor who are compromised.

We are trying to create a stronger publicly funded health care system so all Canadians can get health care when they need it, and not before.

[Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997, March 26th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, many Quebeckers go to Ontario for medical treatment.

The reason for this is that the health care system in Quebec is falling apart in a dramatic, tragic and sad fashion. I feel very sorry for the people of Quebec and their health care system. No one in that system from the health care professionals to the people and I am sure the politicians want that.

The big myth that politicians and intellectuals like to push for political gain is that we have a single tier health care system. That is an utter and complete myth. I would like to use the l word but I will not.

Premier Bourassa of Quebec went to the United States to get health care for a malignant melanoma, a terribly malignant cancer. What a tragedy. If the health care system is so great why did Mr. Bourassa leave the province of Quebec to get his health care in the United States? At least he had an option. Most people in Chicoutimi and la ville de Quebec do not have this option. Neither do people in the rest of the country. They cannot afford it.

There is no single tier; there are multiple tiers in this country. There is an obstruction to getting essential health care services when they are needed because the government has to ration those services for the poor who do not have enough money to pay for them.

This is how it would work. If we had a separate private system where only private services are received, where only private moneys are put in, where there is no overlap or mixing of the private or the public system, we would be able to get more resources into health care without raising taxes. By relieving pressure on the public system and having some people going to this private system for some of their services because those people would access both, we would ensure that there is more money on a per capita basis for the public system. Therefore people would get their health care services when they need them, particularly those who are impoverished and those who cannot go to the United States for health care. That is the beauty of it.

It is not an abolishment of the Canada Health Act. It is a new made in Canada health act that will ensure all Canadians get health care services when they medically need them. That is the bottom line in health care.

[Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997, March 26th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, contrary to the New Democratic Party, we listen to our grassroots. We are not the party that has a top down structure.

I do not know where the hon. member is getting his figures from, but I would generously call them a flight of fancy. We as a party have repeatedly put forth constructive, economic solutions to get a balanced budget and to produce a surplus.

The reasons are simple. If we spend more than what we take in, like the NDP party said during the last election, we create an increased debt and increased interest payments and chew away at the ability to pay for social programs.

The New Democratic Party must understand this important rule. If we are fiscally irresponsible we are also financially irresponsible. We in the Reform Party live within our means. We created a plan that I am happy the government and the finance minister have adopted to produce a balanced budget. In so doing, we manage to ensure that there is even more money within the pie that can be spent on programs such as health and education.

I hope the New Democratic Party member will come over, see the light and try to help us ensure the government continues to have a balanced budget and a surplus budget. We could work together to ensure that there is enough money to provide health, education, pensions and other social programs to those Canadians who are most dependent on them and to ensure they will not be suffering.

[Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997, March 26th, 1998]

Exactly. Right now we are subsidizing the Americans by spending over $1 billion down south. Why do we not have private services in private settings and get American patients to come to Canada? They would only have to pay two-thirds of the price for their treatment. They would create employment for health care professionals across the board, from our techs to our nurses, physicians, cleaning personnel, accountants and all the people who are involved in the health care system. This is not only doable, it is pragmatic. Above all, it would save our publicly funded health care system.

Our system is very distinct and different from the system in the United States. We unequivocally state that we do not want and would fight against that system to ensure Canadians get health care services when they are medically needed and to ensure those services are not dependent on the amount of money in their pockets.

We have to get away from the silly, senseless, absurd, poisonous, vile rhetoric that the NDP has been putting forward and have a sensible, constructive debate for the Canadians out there who are on waiting lists and suffering. We have to ensure that all Canadians, particularly those who cannot afford it, get health care when they medically need it. We must not leave them waiting, and in some cases dying, as is happening now in emergency rooms across the country.

In the Prince George Regional Hospital, where I work from time to time, it takes 14 months to get an orthopaedic consultation. It takes another six months to a year to get the service. It is not because the surgeons do not want to work, it is because the hospital does not have enough money to open up more hospital beds and more operating rooms, so surgeons cannot operate.

Imagine being a physician whose patients come in saying “I have torn the ligaments in my knee. I need a new hip. I cannot use my hand”, and having to reply “I am sorry. As we speak my waiting list just increased from 12 to 14 months because the hospital cannot open up the operating rooms, cannot open up beds and does not have the nurses to take care of you”.

It is a big myth that Canada has the best health care system in the world. It is bunk. But we could have the best health care system in the world. We need to have a sensible debate. We need to put all of the minds in this room together. We need to get the best ideas from the public. We need to look at what has been done well around the world. We need to reject what has been done poorly and make the best system in the world.

We should not take what the Americans have done. We should not emulate the system in the United Kingdom. We should not emulate the system in European countries. What we should do is take the best from all of those countries and make the best health care system to ensure that those people who need it will get it. I will end on that particular point.

With respect to the economy there are numerous things the government could do for labour market renewal. The right to work legislation that has been employed in certain countries has increased the amount of money in people's pockets by over $2,000. It has dramatically increased the amount of companies fleeing to areas that have right to work legislation. The government could work with its provincial counterparts to ensure this happens.

The government could also remove the egregious surtaxes that crush the living daylights out of our private sector.

The government could take the opportunity to streamline the GST.

The government could take the opportunity to work with the provinces to build national standards in education so that a child who moves from Newfoundland to British Columbia or from Ontario to Prince Edward Island will be able to integrate into that system and get the best education possible.

The government could work with industry and the provinces to ensure that the educational system knows what the needs of the private sector will be in the future. There is an enormous gap in certain areas that could provide high paying, interesting jobs for Canadians, but they are not filled because the education system has not been able to provide the skilled people necessary for those jobs.

My colleague from Medicine Hat and others have repeatedly mentioned the need for lower taxes.

During the era of Brian Mulroney one thing that was done well was that his government briefly lowered taxes. What happened? The economy was stimulated and government revenues increased. What did it do? It started to tax wildly. Government revenues went down and the economy had a clamp put on it.

The United States, the United Kingdom, New Zealand and certain European countries have lowered their tax rates and removed surtaxes. They have ensured that people have more money in their pockets by streamlining their tax systems. They have removed the egregious rules and regulations that put a clamp on the private sector. Those were removed, their economy improved, the social and economic situation of their people improved and their governments had more money to pay for social programs.

There are references to making amendments to the old age security system and the CPP in the bill. Instead of taking the Reform suggestion of ensuring people have a super RRSP and enjoy a greater rate of return, the government has stayed with the status quo and tried to buttress a system which economists who originally devised it said would fail. This system is like a pyramid scheme and will be an abysmal failure.

The CPP system today ensures that Canadians have about the lowest rate of return they can have. It does not ensure that young people will have that pension when they retire.

That is not a legacy any government wants to have. That is not a legacy we can be proud of. Why do we continually try to uphold sacred cows that compromise the very health and welfare of Canadians? Why do we not take these sacred cows, these social programs which in their very essence are good for Canada, and ensure that they are sustainable, that Canadians get the best rate of return, and that Canadians have the best social programs available to them within the context, confines and economic restrictions in our country?

The NDP put forth a budgetary plan during the last election campaign that ensured a $40 billion deficit. Money does not grow on trees. We have to face facts. We have to do what we can do within the context of our economic situation today. Instead of nibbling around the edges, the government could have taken constructive suggestions from around the world on taxes, rules and regulations, educational systems and social program renewal and truly built a better future for Canadians.

Except for trying to ensure that the government will look good in the eyes of Canadians, I do not understand why it continually tries to support sacred cows which compromise Canadians instead of help them. There are solutions out there. We must have the courage to have a sensible, intelligent, constructive debate in the House.

We have spoken at length about other things. Today my colleague raised the issue of the Delgamuukw case in British Columbia, the aboriginal treaty situation. If there is one social group in the country that suffers more than any other, it is the aboriginal community. Again, governments have again used it as a sacred cow: it is okay to keep paying billions of dollars into the system, closing our eyes and saying that we have done our duty while aboriginal people in the trenches are suffering from the highest rates of abuse, violence and social degradation suffered by any group.

It is an abrogation of the responsibility of any government to merely pay money without accountability. Under certain circumstances and in some areas those moneys are not going where they should be going. The best we can do for aboriginal people in Canada is to work with them to ensure their culture and their language will become viable and integrated parts of Canada. They should have the power and ability to stand on their own two feet and provide for themselves, their families and their children. We must ensure they have the ability to teach us about their fascinating culture and legacy that are as integral parts of the country as we can imagine.

Instead an institutionalized welfare state has been created which has ripped the heart and soul out of aboriginal communities. Some have managed to dig themselves out. They have become self-financing, self-sustaining and self-respecting.

One of the saddest legacies that we have given is that we have abrogated our responsibility in the House by ensuring that the institutionalized welfare state we have foisted upon aboriginal people continues. We have to work with them to ensure that they have the tools to stand on their own two feet, provide for themselves and ensure that their language and culture continue.

In closing, Bill C-28 had a lot of opportunity but sadly it was opportunity lost. The government failed to seize the day and it failed to do what it could have done to truly make the country as good as it could be.

[Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997, March 26th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, it is indeed a pleasure today to speak to Bill C-28, an act to amend the Income Tax Act, the Customs Act, the CPP, the Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act—the works. It is quite a comprehensive bill, as other members have mentioned.

This bill nibbles around the edges. There was a great opportunity within this bill to provide Canadians with the economic ability to be as good as they can be, to save our social programs and to ensure that the Canadian economy, the health and welfare and the standard of living of Canadians could be much better than they are today.

Our high unemployment rate has been referred to many times in this House. It is the highest unemployment rate among the G-7 nations. There is no reason for this. If we look south of the border, the United States has a 4.8% unemployment rate. We have the situation where large numbers of our skilled people—economists, nurses, physicians and artists—have left Canada and gone to the United States.

From Wall Street to Los Angeles, from Hollywood to Atlanta, Canadians have gone to the United States and have dramatically improved the health, welfare and economy of Americans.

We need to keep our trained and skilled people in Canada. As my colleagues in the Reform Party have mentioned, there are ways of doing this. We do not need to reinvent the wheel. We just need to look at other countries such as the United States which has managed to drop its tax rate, which has resulted in an extraordinarily low unemployment rate and an economy that is booming.

Let us look at the measures that have been employed in the United Kingdom and New Zealand to ensure that people have the best opportunities. I will get into these opportunities in a little more specific way in a moment.

I first want to deal with one specific area. The member from the NDP, who spoke at length, castigated us for our views on health care. We have a situation in this country that is causing a lot of pain and suffering. The health care issue is being bantered around like a football between politicians for political gain, and all the while sick patients, who cannot defend themselves, are being sacrificed on the altar of political expediency.

We need a sensible debate on the issue of health care. Making utterly false statements, such as somebody wanting an American style health care system, is absolute nonsense. These kinds of comments polarize and poison the debate so the Canadian people do not have an opportunity to hear the intelligent arguments of both sides.

The situation is that we have limited resources, an aging population and more expensive technologies. Because of this governments have been forced to ration. What is happening right now is that the poor are being compromised. The rich always have a choice. They can go down to the United States, where they spend over $1 billion a year to obtain their health care needs. One of my colleagues in this party did that and it saved his life, contrary to what the NDP member said. It is a tragedy that any Canadian has to go south of the border to get the essential health care services they require to save their life. We cannot keep sticking our heads in the sand.

How do we solve this problem of limited resources and an increasing demand? Do we continue to uphold the myth that we are upholding a Canada Health Act which was a good act when it was devised in the 1960s, or do we face the facts and realize that the Canada Health Act is being violated in virtually every one of its five tenets?

I gave the example in British Columbia that if a person is injured and comes under the workers' compensation board the Government of British Columbia will ensure that person gets to the top of the line over somebody who does not come under the WCB. That is absolutely unfair. On the other hand, that government says it believes in a Canada Health Act and a system that is equal and single tiered.

Is it accessible health care for an elderly person who is in severe pain to wait 16 months to get a new hip? Is it accessible health care for somebody who needs coronary artery bypass grafting to wait six months? Is it fair for someone who needs a 20 minute operation on their wrist to wait nine months for that operation? Whichever way you slice it that is not accessible health care.

There are numerous examples in health care in this country today which demonstrate that we have a multi-tiered health care system. No one in this House, and particularly the Reform Party, wants a health care system that is like an American style health care system where under certain circumstances people need to sell their house. The purpose of having a separate, privately funded, tiered system where only private moneys are exchanged and not a dime of public money is used is to ensure that some people in the public system who choose to will get some of their services in a private setting which is separate and completely different from the public system. That is unlike what happened in the United Kingdom and unlike what happens in the United States.

In that system some people who are rich will get their services from the private sector. Then there will be more money on a per capita basis for the public sector. Therefore the people who do not have the wherewithal would have better access and better health care than what they have today. The only purpose in proposing this is to ensure that people who are on our publicly funded system will have better access. Is it unequal? Yes, it is.

I would argue two things. We have an unequal system now, but is it not better to have an unequal system that provides better access for all Canadians than the declining system that we have today which compromises the poor and not the rich? If a separate, completely independent and privately funded health care system is available, the rich will subsidize the poor. In this way resources can go toward the health care system without raising taxes.

[Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997, March 26th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot let the hon. member go without making some comments.

She is an NDP member. She lambasted the Reform Party throughout her speech. There is nobody in this House, not a person who does not want to save our publicly funded health care system, even the NDP.

I want to draw attention to her close colleagues with whom she works, the British Columbia New Democratic Party. The B.C. NDP has engaged in what I would call the economic and social program destruction syndrome. The B.C. NDP has foisted it upon British Columbia.

In that province, they who profess, like the hon. member does, to uphold the Canada Health Act, willfully acknowledge, aid and abet certain people, if they have the money, to queue jump within the publicly funded health care system. They allow Workers' Compensation Board patients to queue jump within the publicly funded health care system. If someone gets sick on WCB, more money is paid and the person goes to the head of the line. If the person is not, too bad, they go to the end.

The NDP government, her colleagues, has given British Columbia the worst economic performance in the last two years in this country. This is a direct result of NDP economics, voodoo economics, destructive economics.

Where does the hon. member propose to get the money to pay for the health care needs which she described we have to come up with? Contrary to her NDP doctrine, money does not grow on trees. Where is the money going to come from? Who will pay for it? Do we have to raise taxes? Money does not grow on trees. Where will the member find the money to pay for the health care needs we want, given that we have the situation of a balanced budget and no extra resources?

[Fisheries, March 26th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, since the government has been in power, west coast salmon species have become extinct, west coast communities have become extinct, DFO scientific research has been swept under the carpet and scientists gagged. What has been the minister's response? “Let us study the situation”.

British Columbians want to know what this minister will do to prevent an east coast disaster on the west coast.

[Income Tax Amendments Act, 1997, March 26th, 1998]

Madam Speaker, before the last referendum the Parti Quebecois commissioned a study on the economic impact of separation on the people of Quebec. It was done by somebody in the Parti Quebecois and was tossed under the carpet.

I would like ask my hon. friend from the Bloc Quebecois two questions. First, why was the report, which was a damning report on the economic impact on Quebec if Quebec were to separate, tossed under the carpet? Second, in the event of separation, would the manufacturers of Quebec be doing their business with the Americans in French or in English?

[Health Care, March 25th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, if it is the slow bleed that kills, then our health care system, which has been hemorrhaging for some time, is in critical shape.

Sick Canadians lined up in emergency rooms wait for a vacant hospital bed while whole wards remain closed due to a lack of funds. Injured people wait one and a half years just to see a specialist and another year to get treatment. Some even die waiting to get medical care, the medical care they were led to believe would be there during their time of greatest need.

Yet the government allows, on the one hand, violations to the Canada Health Act, but on the other pretends to uphold the act in order to look like a white knight.

The government uses health care as a political football to make itself look good while patients are sacrificed on the altar of political expediency.

Is this what the government means by putting health care first? Is this what it calls its number one priority? The government must put patients first and give politics a back seat.

Patients are dying.