Kevin Sorenson

[Hockey, May 31st, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate the Camrose Kodiaks hockey team in winning the Royal Bank Cup national junior championship.

The Kodiaks became the second consecutive Alberta junior team to win the national championship. This was the fourth time in seven years Alberta has claimed the honour of having the best Junior A, tier II team in the country.

Camrose defeated the host Flin Flon Bombers 5 to 0 in the finals on May 13 and tonight they will celebrate their momentous victory.

When asked to explain why their team was victorious, the Kodiak players said that they had a great bunch of guys that were a tight knit group. Being friends and being close is what made them the better team. These guys know how to play hockey.

I take my hat off to the Kodiaks and to the great community of Camrose for its outstanding support. It has been a fantastic accomplishment and they have done us all proud.

[Citizenship, May 10th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize and congratulate three outstanding young people from my riding of Crowfoot: Darla Mohan of Camrose, Jackie Brown of Erskine, and Heather André of Drumheller.

These constituents were among the 220 young Canadians selected by their local Rotary associations to visit the national capital region as participants in the adventure in citizenship program, a program that focuses attention on the diversity of Canada and on the institutions and values that unite us.

Last week it was with extreme pleasure that I joined Darla, Jackie and Heather at the adventure in citizenship reception on the Hill. Even in the brief period I spent in their company it was very apparent why they were chosen to visit Ottawa representing their local communities. They were all exceptional teenagers who had made significant contributions to their communities. I say to Darla, Heather and Jackie, way to go.

[Canadian Wheat Board, May 3rd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, obviously the minister does not understand the issue because organic farmers were not part of the process that elected the board.

Arnold Schmidt has diversified into organic wheat production. Mr. Schmidt has gone further than just being an organic producer. He has developed markets for flour milled from his own grain. Unfortunately Mr. Schmidt cannot get an export permit for his organic flour from the Canadian Wheat Board. Why does the minister insist on stifling rural entrepreneurs and value added products such as Mr. Schmidt's?

[Canadian Wheat Board, May 3rd, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, on Tuesday the Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board stated that elected members of the board represented all western Canadian farmers. However it is clear that the Canadian Wheat Board does not represent organic farmers.

Organic growers want the right and responsibility of marketing outside the wheat board system. The minister is the only one who can give these farmers the freedom they are demanding.

When will the minister actually listen to farmers and give organic growers the ability to process and market their own grain?

[Income Tax Act, May 2nd, 2001]

Madam Speaker, it is a privilege and an honour to rise in the House to speak to Bill C-272, an act to amend the Income Tax Act, which deals with child adoption expenses.

Every once in a while a bill comes up in the House that grabs someone's attention. Bill C-272 provides fairness and equity in circumstances where there is perhaps great need. I applaud the hon. member in the Alliance for bringing forward this private member's bill.

The purpose of the enactment of the bill is to allow taxpayers a deduction that does not exceed $7,000 for expenses related to the adoption of a child. The bill says that a limit of $7,000 can be used as a deduction when they compute their income tax returns for the tax year.

We have already heard this afternoon that a great number of the adoptions taking place in Canada at this time cost far in excess of $7,000. The cost of adoptions from overseas, adoptions from Haiti, adoptions from China and adoptions from Vietnam can exceed $20,000. The bill says that a cap of $7,000 could be used as a deduction, not all the expenses but a certain percentage of them, so that young people in some instances could afford to have a family.

Expenses must have been incurred in the taxation year or in the previous two years. A great deal of the expenses incurred in adoption are over many years. Young couples sometimes wait seven, eight, nine or ten years to adopt.

Adoption expenses mean any expense incurred on account of adopting a child. Many individuals who go overseas have a huge output of dollars so that they can stay in a country for a set period of time. Another part of the bill says that it applies to both children adopted within this country and those from without.

I want to relate to the House the emotional turmoil, the feelings of young people when they realize that perhaps they will be unable to raise a family. It puts a huge emotional burden on them. It is an emotional roller coaster in locating a baby for adoption. In many situations finally approved for adoption, the birth mother changes her mind. Then again the couple is thrown into a turbulent, emotional scene. All this emotional stress is compounded by the financial burden, particularly for those in lower income brackets.

I should like to explain a bit about the situation my wife and I found ourselves in. In 1986 we were married. We decided before we got married that we would like to have four children. After three or four years of trying to have a baby and going through all the tests to check out medical reasons why we could not, we applied for adoption when it was obvious we would be unable to conceive.

We were told at that time that it would be a seven year wait. We left that province and moved back to Alberta and applied for the adoption process there. We went through the open adoption route and within a year or two our names had been chosen as prospective adoptive parents.

I remember with great clarity the thrill we had when all of a sudden the phone call came that told us a birth mother had chosen us to raise the child she was still carrying. The birth mother showed a great deal of love in saying she realized that her child needed to be put into a home with parents who could look after her.

The cost was close to $7,000. We were young. We were both right out of school. I had been working for some time and we were able to come up with the $7,000. When I came into the network of the adoption agency I met all those other young people who were waiting. I met young people who were 21 or 22 years old who had been slaving away. When they were hit with the fact that it would be $7,000, they realized they had very little chance of ever having a family. I saw young people break down when they were told that the costs could be $5,000, $6,000, $7,000 or $10,000. I saw wives weep in realization that they would never be able to raise a family.

I have friends who have stood beside us and said how they rejoice in the fact that we were able to adopt not just one but two children, because financially they would never be able to afford it.

The tax deduction will not perhaps change all of that, but it does give a little more hope to those wanting to raise a family. I applaud again the hon. member for bringing the bill forward.

On our first adoption we adopted a beautiful little girl straight from the hospital, Kristen Nicole. She is now eight, going on nine years old. On our second adoption it was a very similar situation. The list was long. The list was huge. The people who were applying for adoptions were begging for children. Many were being turned away because of the financial restraints. Many people were hurting.

I think back to the time of the adoptions and I remember being with my wife when one of our friends made the announcement that they were pregnant. I remember the evenings where my wife would literally cry on the pillow all night, and I would feel like it as well, because we did not think we would ever be able to have a family.

The second adoption was another gift of God and one that we are very thankful for. I am particularly concerned, as I have already mentioned, for those who cannot have children and who realize that they will never be able to afford adoption.

Adoption, as we have already spoken about, is under provincial jurisdiction. There are a number of other things that perhaps the federal government could do. I should research it a little more, but at the time that we adopted the adoptive mother was not allowed as much maternity leave.

We were all of a sudden going to have a baby. If we would have conceived the child ourselves she would have been able to have three months longer of maternity leave than what an adoptive mother was allowed. That amount of time is another area the federal government could look at because that extra time is needed to bond.

This is a good bill. I wish the Liberal government would have made it votable. It could have shown that it has a commitment to families and a commitment to doing what is right.

[Farm Credit Corporation Act, April 30th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, that is a very good question coming from an individual who has studied rural development a great deal and understands the things that need to happen in agriculture. I am thrilled that he mentioned value added and the important role that value added products give to Canadian agriculture.

One of my concerns is that we do not see the Farm Credit Corporation as the agriculture credit corporation. We need to have a body such as the FCC that can provide capital to young farmers, farmers who want to buy more land, enlarge their facility and to do some of the things that the FCC is very good at doing.

We have a number of FCC branches in our constituency. Very close friends of mine have used the FCC and have gained financing from it. However, I do not wish to see the FCC becoming only an agriculture credit corporation. It is imperative to have directives toward the farm that will encourage farming.

To give the government some credit, we have the Federal Business Development Bank. Would it now get out of anything that may be deemed agriculture? Would it abandon anything that might be remotely close to being agriculture? I think not. Good sound business such as value added products, fertilizer, equipment and any of those things would still be covered by the Federal Business Development Bank.

Everything should not be thrown into the Farm Credit Corporation. It should be pointed singularly toward farming, farmers, the family farm and the people who are trying to get started. Right now 94% of the moneys available through the FCC are given directly to family farm operations. It can deteriorate. It can be chipped away at. Pretty soon a very small percentage could be dedicated to the family farm.

As far as value added, let me also say that many other things would encourage value added products or businesses being promoted in the west.

One of the hindrances toward that could be the Canadian Wheat Board. The Canadian Wheat Board says that if we were to begin to make a value added product in the west we would not be able to buy our wheat locally. We would have to pay the transportation of that wheat to a port, pay the transportation of it back, even if it were next door to where the wheat was produced. We would have to buy it off the Canadian Wheat Board, pay the elevation charges and all those things.

We could do a number of things to help promote value added. The member has hit the nail on the head. We should start with the Canadian Wheat Board.

[Farm Credit Corporation Act, April 30th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, once again I am honoured to rise in the House to debate issues that are specific to the agriculture sector.

As a farmer and member representing a predominantly rural riding where the agriculture industry is a major economic engine of our communities, anything related to farm and to finances is extremely important to me, as it is to my constituents.

Bill C-25 is an act to amend the Farm Credit Corporation Act. It proposes to modify the role of the Farm Credit Corporation. What does Bill C-25 do?

First, Bill C-25 will change the name from Farm Credit Corporation to Farm Credit Canada.

Second, it expands the role of the Farm Credit Corporation to allow the corporation to lend to businesses that are not necessarily directly involved in primary agriculture production or do not have farmers as the majority shareholders.

Third, it expands the lending role to let Farm Credit Corporation provide equity financing by allowing it to hold non-fixed assets such as cattle as collateral.

Fourth, it formalizes Farm Credit Corporation's leasing ability which, although not specific, could include farmland.

Today is the last day of April. We are back on a Monday. After I spent the weekend in my constituency back in Crowfoot travelling throughout the constituency I can tell members that it is very apparent that farmers are in the field.

We were promised and guaranteed by the federal agriculture minister that Canadians would see financial help before the seed was put in the ground. That has not been the case. As we travelled throughout the constituencies people continuously asked where the money was that was promised by the federal Liberal government.

We were home this week. Springtime is usually the time where spirits are high as farmers look forward, with great expectation, to preparing the soil, seeding, planting, putting in their crops. Spirits are not high on the family farm and throughout western Canada and rural Canada. As we travel throughout the constituencies we see that it is a cloudy horizon, a troublesome horizon.

I do not know how I could explain to the House some of the things that we saw as we travelled throughout Crowfoot this past weekend. In the distance we saw on the horizon clouds that looked like they were fires. They were not fires. They were dust clouds. They were dust storms. The wind was blowing hard; it was hot and dry and the dust was blowing. Farmers were turning off the tractors and shutting them down because they realized that the more they cultivated the more the moisture disappeared. They were already laying the seed into a dry bed, so to speak.

Spirits are not high. As farmers go to the fields, they realize that this spring input costs have soared and are going through the roof. Fertilizer costs have nearly doubled from last year. Commodity prices are in the pit. Barley is around $2, wheat is $3 and canola is under $6. Commodity prices farmers are getting have not kept up with the input costs. Hope is diminishing.

Through the winter our farmers were writing and calling and stopping at the office asking what we could do about the heating bills. Working in the shop was almost ruled out because they were trying to save on their heating bills. The troubles just seem to go on.

However, have no fear, because the Liberal government has come forward with a proposal that will change the name of the Farm Credit Corporation, a proposal that will expand the lending abilities of the Farm Credit Corporation to allow it to now lend to businesses, not just farmers, not just the family farm, but remotely related agriculture businesses. That just does not sell down on the farm. That just does not sell where the rubber meets the road.

With regard to the name change, the federal government believes that this name change is absolutely necessary to affirm its federal identity to the program and to the corporation. I was born and raised on the family farm and have been farming actively for over 20 years. I think it is a very well known fact that the Farm Credit Corporation is an agency of the Government of Canada. I therefore do not necessarily agree that the name should be changed, particularly if it will result in the needless expenditures of scarce federal dollars for agriculture and agriculture related programs.

Currently 94% of the corporation's financial services are directed to farmers and businesses that are directly related to primary production. Recognizing that expanding the lending capability of FCC may strain the corporation's ability to service farmers' demands for credit, I must oppose this amendment to the FCC act.

The Canadian Alliance, as stated by my colleagues earlier today, does not agree with extending Farm Credit Corporation's involvement beyond family farm operations. The extension of that lending ability beyond primary production may bring Farm Credit Corporation into direct competition with private lending institutions and may overlap the government's institutions such as the federal Business Development Bank.

We should think of what the Liberal government is trying to accomplish. It says we need money. It says we need to provide financing for farmers and for agriculture related businesses, but now it would open up the floodgates to other businesses that are not necessarily primary producers or tied to producers.

I believe the government has perhaps changed the wrong name. Maybe it is not the word corporation that it should get rid of, but the word farm, because the legislation would take money off the farm tables and undoubtedly put it onto many business tables, and it may also effectively end up remaining on cabinet tables. The problem we are seeing in rural western Canada is that there are not enough funds being put onto the kitchen tables on the majority of farms.

Why not change the name to Canada Credit Corporation, CCC? It is easy to remember. Then the word farm will be taken right out of the equation. We could change it to CCCP, like the hockey team's sweaters that read CCCP, Canada Credit Corporation Policy. Maybe that is what the government should be looking at. It might be as effective.

With regard to formalizing the leasing ability of FCC, the government has stated that the intent is not to include land. Rather, it claims the leasing provisions are for equipment. However, this is not made clear in the legislation. This will definitely be one of the amendments which I hope will come forward through our very good agriculture critics in the Canadian Alliance, or all parties could bring that amendment forward.

The Canadian Alliance does not think it is appropriate for the government to be holders of farmland. We believe that if Farm Credit Corporation is allowed to permanently hold and lease land, it could result in the Canadian government's holdings influencing the market value of farmland. While we accept that it is impossible for Farm Credit Corporation to avoid holding land for short periods of time, the act should explicitly state that Farm Credit Corporation should divest itself of any holdings as quickly as possible.

A number of years ago I looked for packages of farmland on a map of Saskatchewan. As I looked at the central Saskatchewan area, close to Central Butte and Riverhurst and some of those areas, I was appalled to see how much farmland was actually held by Farm Credit Corporation. It held quarters and quarters of land.

That will happen. It is evident, especially with what farming and agriculture have gone through. However, the responsibility of the government and the responsibility of Farm Credit Corporation must be to hold that land for a very short period of time to allow the market to set the value, to disperse it and to give hope to young people who want, for some reason, to get into farming.

We support extending FCC's lending ability to include equity financing. We applaud it. It is a great idea, but as stated before, we want that given only to primary producers. That portion of the bill must be related only to those who are farming and involved in primary production, those who are making their living by putting the seed in the ground or raising cattle or any of the other things primary producers are doing. Allowing non-fixed assets such as livestock to be collateral for loans would greatly assist farmers who are currently not eligible for financial assistance.

The Canadian Alliance certainly encourages increased financial assistance for cash-strapped farmers toiling endless hours a day producing the high quality food products that Canadians have come to appreciate, enjoy and expect. Unfortunately the federal Liberal government's failure to provide farmers with a much needed cash injection will result in more farmers depending on loans to get their crops in the ground this spring.

As raised in the House on many occasions in the brief three months of this session of parliament, farmers have continually come here, lobbied and asked the government for a minimum of $900 million. I have heard some groups explain to the government why they needed a minimum of $1.6 billion, others why they needed $1.2 billion, but it was generally accepted that the lowest figure was the minimum of $900 million. The government however saw fit to come forward and provide only $500 million.

We therefore proposed on March 20 in a supply motion that the government authorize the expenditure of an additional $400 million. En masse Liberal members of parliament voted against our motion and again the federal government denied farmers the much needed financial assistance. My colleagues have repeatedly stood in the House expressing our sentiments and those of our constituents regarding this financial holdout.

Today I would like to share with all members of the House the opinion of Mr. J. J. Huber of Midale, Saskatchewan, as written in a recent edition of the Western Producer . I ask members to listen carefully. He stated:

It makes me sick to my stomach to have to listen to the senseless dribble coming from our rural Liberal MPs. They talk the talk, but when their job is on the line, they cannot abandon the Canadian farmers quick enough. I tell you, if we lose 45 percent of our farmers in the near future, agriculture will become a non-issue in Canada. Maybe we should just seed all arable land to grass and we can import all of our ag products from the U.S. or U.K. because they are the only people left in this world who care about their agriculture industry.

And when our consumers in Canada give their urban MPs grief because the price of food has quadrupled, who will the MPs run to then?...The farm gate is just the starting point.

He continues:

To hear the MPs say that farmers or other common folk don't understand politics, what's not to understand? It's really simple: you lie to the people and tell them how you will speak for them, and once the waters get a little rough in Ottawa, you ditch the people who you represent because you might lose your job if you actually do what your constituents want you to do.

You then do a 180-degree turn and tell your constituents that they do not know much about politics and that your abandoning them is just part of the political game. I don't know of any other job in the world where you can continue to lie to the people who pay your wages, and turn your back on them when they want you to actually do your job, and still continue to get paid. Politics, it makes me sick to my stomach.

Agriculture, politics, I think it tends to make all of us a little sick to our stomachs.

However, I say to Mr. Huber that he should take great strength because the government has come up with a bill that would give a name change to Farm Credit Corporation. Does that make Mr. Huber feel better?

If that does not quite do it, he can understand this. The legislation will allow not just farmers to receive the help from a lending institution of this Canadian government, Farm Credit Corporation, but it will also allow help to other businesses so that the government can stand and say x amount of dollars is available to farmers and to agriculture when actually in effect it is going to businesses that are not even related as primary producers. Does that make Mr. Huber feel better?

What about expanding the lending role to let FCC provide financial equity by allowing it to hold non-fixed assets as collateral? There is a little grab-all in every legislation. Maybe that is the one little bit that we need to grab hold of and put our hope and our trust in for better help. What about the pill to formalize FCC's leasing ability, which could include farmland? How does that make Mr. Huber feel? Mr. Huber and young people across Canada would have the ability to lease back land.

There was a hope that we could own our farmland, make payments and pay off debts. Now we have the ability to lease it back from our federal government. Despite the financial hardships that our farmers must endure as a result of increased costs of production, the legislation needs to be changed. We can change it and make it truly effective. The legislation is a bitter pill to swallow, as I study it further and see it coming down the pike described as some type of agricultural help.

[Charities Registration (Security Information) Act, April 30th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege to rise in the House today to speak to Bill C-16, an act respecting the registration of charities and security information and the Income Tax Act.

The purpose of the bill is to provide a mechanism to strip organizations of their charitable status if they are caught fundraising for terrorist groups.

We believe that the bill would have minimal impact on stemming terrorism in Canada. Effectively, the legislation says that it is all right to sponsor terrorism, it is all right to financially raise support for terrorists, but a person cannot get a tax deduction for doing so.

Effective legislation, legislation Canadian Alliance could wholeheartedly support, would make it a criminal offence to raise and provide funds to support a terrorist organization. This type of legislation already exists in the United States and the United Kingdom.

If curbing the operation of terrorist front groups truly was the goal, we could emulate Great Britain's terrorism act 2000, which empowers cabinet to ban from its country any organization that it believes is involved in terrorist activities. The law proscribes any group if it commits or participates in acts of terrorism: if it prepares for terrorism; if it promotes or encourages terrorism; or if it is otherwise concerned in terrorism either in the United Kingdom or abroad.

The British government publicly identified 21 groups that were associated with terrorism. Among the groups were the likes of Babbar Khalsa, the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, Abu Nidal Organization and the Kurdistan Workers Party.

The United States tried to get at terrorist fundraising through the anti-terrorism and effective death penalty act of 1996. Section 302 of the act authorizes the secretary of state to designate as foreign terrorist organizations any group that meets specific criteria. The act makes it an offence to knowingly provide or conspire to provide material support or resources to a foreign terrorist organization. In 1999 there were 28 foreign terrorist organizations that were listed.

A 1998 CSIS report said that there were as many as 50 international terrorist organizations active in Canada, often using the country as a banking centre. The report said that liberal immigration laws, relatively open borders, freedom of movement, advanced communication systems and the proximity to the United States made Canada inviting for terrorists.

In January 1999 an influential Senate committee, headed by Senator William Kelly, spent months hearing closed door testimonies from almost 100 members of the security and intelligence community. The reports of the special Senate committee on security and intelligence stated very clearly that Canada remained a venue of opportunity for terrorist groups. It remained a place where they could raise funds, purchase arms and conduct other activities to support their organizations and their terrorist activities elsewhere. Most of the major international terrorist organizations already have a presence in Canada

The report made 33 recommendations which unfortunately the Liberal government failed to embrace. The most important recommendation was for a new criminal penalty to combat cyber attacks on vital computer systems by hackers and other electronic saboteurs. It also called for powers to battle terrorist fundraising, more money for intelligence agencies and measures to better track possible extremists who made their way or who came into Canada.

The senators determined that technological advances available to terrorists and spies, from cash debit cards to sophisticated satellites, posed the most serious challenge to Canadian authorities. The committee confirmed that several groups with terrorist affiliations raised money in Canada, often through philanthropic organizations registered as charities under the Federal Income Tax Act. The Senate committee said:

Such status enhances the credibility of such groups and, ironically, creates the situation where Canadian taxpayers end up subsidizing their activities.

The Senate committee also found that the operating funds for federal agencies with a security or intelligence role fell to $333 million in 1997-98, down from $467 million in 1989-90, a trend that it suggests and that it would argue must be reversed to keep Canada from falling behind.

The year 2000 budget for the United States security and intelligence sector was increased by approximately $2 billion. The amount of the United States increase alone was more than four times the total amount budgeted for Canada's security and intelligence community.

One of the committee's recommendations pertained to a legal migration into Canada, primarily through our refugee determination system.

First, it is a means by which terrorists may circumvent our vetting process abroad and enter Canada in search for a temporary or for a permanent haven. Once here they may conduct fundraising activities or other activities. In a very few cases they also organize acts of violence.

Second, large volumes of illegal migrants may ultimately provide the stream in which a few terrorists gain entry into the United States by circumventing Canadian and United States border controls, since Canada has no exit controls. No exit controls mean that it is impossible to calculate how many people remain in Canada illegally, how many slip into the United States, how many return to their country of origin or how many go elsewhere.

As of October 23, 1998 there were 6,110 warrants for removal issued against persons deemed to have abandoned or withdrawn their refugee claims. Of these, 640 warrants were executed and the persons removed from Canada; 240 warrants were cancelled; and there was no action on the remaining 5,272 warrants. It is quite obvious that this is a very serious problem.

On Friday last week a news article in the National Post reported that RCMP officers testified at an immigration hearing that as many as 8,000 Tamil guerrillas with military weapon training were now living in the Toronto area after fleeing a civil war in Sri Lanka.

In reference to the Tamil guerrillas, I would like to conclude today by quoting the April 27 National Post article which said:

Sergeant Fred Bowen said most were “in the retired category” but a few remain active and all had undergone some form of military training provided either by India's military intelligence agency or the Tamil Tigers rebel army.

Sergeant Bowen's estimate of the number of guerrillas who have slipped into Canada during this influx matches a Toronto police figure and may explain how the small rebel force manages to raise, according to the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, $2 million a year in Canada to finance its war effort.

Sergeant Bowen testified that aside from the former guerrilla fighters there are 12 to 15 active members of the Tigers who are on call to commit crimes for the insurgent force in Toronto, as well as 1,000 Tamil gang members, about a third of them supporters of the rebels.

He said there had been 65 shootings in the Toronto Tamil community since September, 2000...“The vast majority of the community is not involved. They are being victimized, they are being extorted.

The gangs are doing anything for money: home invasions and passport theft; drug dealing; crimes of opportunity; frauds; counterfeiting; credit card frauds; attempted murder; kidnappings; extortions.”

I cannot support this ineffective legislation in its present form, therefore I call upon the government to introduce and enact legislation that would make it hard for terrorists and their supporters to get here, stay here and that would make it impossible for them to raise money while they here. If they were caught in any way, shape or form supporting terrorist activities here or abroad, criminal charges with a very severe penalty would be handed down.

[Criminal Code, April 26th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, this is not a war on headlines and press. This is a war on crime. Without doubt the New Democrats would suggest that we need to throw money at the problem. We need to direct money. It not just more money continually thrown at something that is going to solve the problem. It is a balanced approach to directing the moneys that are available to programs that are needed.

I agree with the member wholeheartedly that if there are social concerns we need to dwell on them. These social concerns are the root of much crime. We need to support the measures this bill would put in place, the deterrents that would fight crime.

[Criminal Code, April 26th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for a very good question. She suggests that when we are dealing with something as important as criminal law and fighting organized crime it comes back to a housing project or education. Perhaps we should take a look at a whole umbrella of things that have caused it.

The answer is that obviously we need to look at social concerns. We need to have social programs, but police forces are asking for the resources to fight organized crime and the New Democrat Party is saying that we need housing programs. Our party has talked about balance. We want strong legislation that would give the resources to the police forces and all people who fight crime so that they have the ability to do so.

The president of the Canadian Police Association says that the forest is ablaze and we are standing there with our squirt guns trying to put out a little bushfire. The New Democrats, I would suggest, are coming forward with the same rhetoric we hear day after day, hour after hour, of throwing another social program at the problem.

We need balance for all. Provincial and federal governments need to work together in areas of their own jurisdictions. When we are talking about justice and bills, the federal government needs to say we need social programs but we also need resources.

Some other parts of the bill I want to discuss at the next opportunity in the House deal with the application of the criminal code which we have been concerned about in the past. Certain parts of the bill would give police officers the opportunity to fight and would provide for indictable offences under the criminal code and other acts of parliament when police forces are fighting crime. It would give them the ability to go in quickly with pre-emptive strikes to fight organized crime.

Again my answer to the hon. member is that we unquestionably need social programs, but with organized crime it is not only those who are impoverished. It is not only those in organized crime who get caught up in drug trafficking and living off the avails of drugs. It is a blue collar problem. It is a problem in every area of society. Much work needs to be done internationally as well.

I was reading in the paper this past week about other governments being concerned about the war against drugs. A terrible atrocity took place, I believe in Chile or Peru or one of those countries, two governments that are very proactive. It was thought that aircraft were leaving with drugs on them and an error in judgment was made. We saw a tragedy where three or four missionaries from the United States were travelling and the plane was shot down. A mother and small child were killed.

We need to be very aware that we need to fight crime where it is. It is an unfortunate situation and circumstance, but we need to fight crime. The bill moves us in the right direction. I encourage members of the New Democratic Party to say is good legislation and they will support it.

There could be amendments to it. We would like to see more money given to the police forces, to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, but let us applaud the Liberal government when it finally brings in something for which we have been calling for years. Let us give a bit of credit and say that it is moving in the right direction. Let us all jump on board and support the bill.