Kevin Sorenson

[Criminal Code, April 26th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege and a pleasure to stand in the House again to debate a bill that is being brought forward. Our party commends the government for bringing forward Bill C-24.

Organized crime poses an enormous threat to Canada. It poses an enormous threat to Canada's national security and economic stability. Therefore we on this side of the House welcome Bill C-24, the subject of today's debate. It is a piece of legislation that the Canadian Alliance has been demanding for some time.

In the Canadian Alliance Party we believe we need to put in place the resources to fight crime, to fight all elements of crime. As we look at the daily papers and as we turn the television sets on, we see that organized crime is becoming more prevalent on a daily basis. In 1998 the commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Philip Murray, said:

Organized crime in Canada is now so pervasive that police have been reduced to putting out isolated fires in a blazing underworld economy.

What Philip Murray was saying was that in regard to organized crime there is a huge bonfire, with the whole land ablaze, and our police force has very limited resources to put out what we might call small brush fires.

An Ottawa Citizen article dated March 3, 1999, explained the prevalence of organized crime. It states:

Canada is particularly vulnerable to drug trafficking—the principal source of revenue for most organized crime groups—according to the Drug Analysis Section of the RCMP. Smugglers are attracted to Canada because of the low risk of arrest due to limited police resources that have stymied investigations, relatively light penalties, and our sprawling, largely unmonitored borders.

This article highlights three of the huge concerns dealing with drug trafficking as well as organized crime. The first is limited police resources. The second is light sentences. With the light sentences being handed down, people understand that crime sometimes does pay. Of course the third point is the geographic location of Canada and the fact that it has such huge, long, unmonitored borders.

International drug trafficking is an organized criminal activity that threatens democratic institutions, fuels terrorism and human rights abuses and undermines economic development. Drug trafficking is an inherently violent activity. Violence is used by involved organizations to protect turf, settle disputes and eliminate those who oppose them. Some of those who oppose them are government members, the judiciary, investigative journalists and reporters, individuals who are willing to take a stand. We all, as a joint body here, need to be willing to take a stand.

The Canadian government estimates the revenue involved. It shocked me when I heard that the amount of revenue our Canadian government estimates is in the underground illegal drug market in Canada is $7 billion to $10 billion.

The Canadian drug market is dominated by many foreign organizations. We know of many of the countries that are involved. There are Italian based organized criminals who are involved in upper echelons of the importation and distribution of many drugs. Asian based groups are active in heroin and, increasingly, in cocaine trafficking at the street retail level in Canada. Colombian based traffickers still control much of the cocaine trade in eastern and central Canada. As well, outlaw motorcycle gangs play a major role in the importation and large scale distribution of cannabis, cocaine and other chemical drugs.

Motorcycle gangs and those involved in organized crime are not in only one or two provinces. Provinces throughout this nation are now recognizing and understanding the concerns in regard to organized crime as they deal with the motorcycle gangs and especially the drug trafficking of those gangs.

Most illicit drugs arrive in Canada by aircraft, marine container or truck. More than 9 million commercial shipments enter Canada each year, 75% at land borders and the rest at international airports, marine ports, postal facilities and bonded warehouses. Approximately 1 million marine containers holding illegal drugs enter Canadian ports annually and another 200,000 enter by truck or rail after being unloaded at United States marine ports and then moved out.

In 1995, 5.2 million trucks entered Canada from the United States. Three years ago it was estimated that by the year 2000 this number would reach 6 million to 6.8 million. We have a customs inspection rate of less than 2% and we are talking about 5.2 million vehicles that are estimated to contain drugs and are crossing the border.

At least 100 tonnes of hashish, 15 to 24 tonnes of cocaine and 4 tonnes of liquid hashish are smuggled into Canada each year. Some 50% of the marijuana available in Canada is produced in Canada, but the other 50% is brought in from other countries.

The domestic production of marijuana is estimated to be at 800 tonnes. In 1994 an RCMP operation found that $10 million worth of marijuana was exported from British Columbia to the United States.

To exemplify this point I again quote from a news article, this one appeared in the Globe and Mail in April 1999, just two short years ago:

Dale Brandland, a sheriff from Washington State, testified that many marijuana growers have moved to Canada in recent years to escape harsher U.S. drug laws. U.S. police have said that organized crime groups, including the Hells Angels and various Asian gangs, are shipping the highly popular drug back into the United States, sometimes swapping it pound for pound for cocaine.

The 1998 sentiments expressed by the former commissioner of the RCMP regarding the prevalence of organized crime was recently echoed by the president of the Canadian Police Association who has said that organized crime is gaining the upper hand on law enforcement and it is time for tougher laws. Canadian Police Association president, Grant Obst, said:

Things are going out of control and it is time to do something about it. The biggest problem organized crime has is they have too much money. And our biggest problem is we do not have enough.

Regarding resources this is what the president of the Canadian Police Association said:

We are fighting a battle with a group of individuals who have it would seem an unlimited amount of dollars available to them.

The old saying goes that it takes money to make money. In Canada it takes money perhaps to be involved in organized crime and it would be very obvious that they seem to have that money.

We need to put in place resources for those individuals who are willing to fight organized crime. It is time our country takes a stand and provides them with the right resources.

Through Bill C-24 the federal government is injecting $200 million over the next five years to implement the legislation and related prosecution and law enforcement strategies. This funding is to build on the $584 million that the RCMP received in the 2000 budget to help fight organized crime.

Although the money is a welcome addition it simply is not enough. I have already discussed that the drug trafficking could be close to $10 billion per year and we are throwing $200 million more at the problem. It seems to be a drop in the bucket.

Canada's national police force cannot fulfil domestic obligations, let alone our international obligations to provide legal and police assistance in countries such as Colombia and Peru due to the previous cuts. The report on plans and priorities for the RCMP funding for 1998-99 to 2000-01 showed a continuous decline in spending for federal policing services.

The cuts affected policing services in the area of drug enforcement, customs and excise, proceeds of crime and international liaison. The cuts affected policing services in the area of drug enforcement. That is organized crime. The area of customs and excise is directly related to organized crime. The area of proceeds of crime and international liaison is also related to organized crime.

There was to be a 65% reduction of the 1996-97 funding levels for the anti-smuggling initiative despite the fact that larger sophisticated criminal organizations continue to successfully engage in the smuggling and distribution of contraband goods.

Without adequate increased funding and more highly trained skilled provincial police and RCMP officers, the bikers, the Mafia and the Asian based organized criminals will continue to have a free run and to smuggle drugs across our borders.

As we have seen in Edmonton and Calgary they will have the ability to kill innocent bystanders who are caught up in turf wars and caught up in money laundering. They will continue to intimidate and threaten. They will continue to injure and kill members of the judiciary, crime reporters, correction officers, and maybe even some day members of parliament.

I would therefore urge and recommend a significant increase in the expenditures proposed in Bill C-24. I do so with the confidence that the majority of Canadians would agree that fighting organized crime is a top priority.

A 1998 report of a national survey on organized crime and corrections in Canada revealed that Canadians support increased funding for the RCMP to combat organized crime. I will quote from page 3 of that document:

Virtually all respondents want government to spend more money to fight organized crime; in a forced-choice situation, respondents picked organized crime as a spending priority over all other proposed options except health care.

I have only scratched the surface of this most important piece of legislation. I hope to get another opportunity in the near future to speak again to this criminal law bill. Some of the other points in the bill are well worth supporting.

We need to have a concentrated effort on everything it would take to fight organized crime. Canadians want to feel safe. We want to feel safe in our homes, in our communities, in our provinces and in our country. When we look at the survey we understand why Canadians want more money for health care. They want to feel safe. They want to feel if they become ill that the resources are there to help them.

Canadians want to be safe on their streets. They want to know the Canadian government is absolutely committed to keeping communities safe. The great fear many Canadians face is the onslaught of crime. I do not mean petty crime although we want to fight that as well. They fear organized crime because it is a direct threat to our society, to the well-being and safety of our communities, and to our children and our grandchildren.

[Meningitis, April 6th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today out of respect for 19 year old Brent Danylyshen, the late son of Bernie and Bonnie Danylyshen of Veteran, Alberta. Brett died on October 4, 2000, from meningitis. Bernie and Bonnie wrote to me as follows:

While we are devastated by his death, we still want the Canadian public to be aware that there is a vaccine available to combat the disease that killed him. Public awareness of the signs and symptoms of meningococcal disease is the key to prevention as well.

Brett's case was the 39th reported by the Capital Health Authority in Alberta and the third death. There have now been 62 cases reported in just this one health region alone since December 1999. Alberta has finally called for province-wide immunization.

Mr. Danylyshen asked that the Canadian government sit up and take notice. There have been cases in almost every province of Canada and in some of those cases there have been deaths. Let us become aware of meningitis disease and let us be prepared to combat it.

[Foot And Mouth Disease, April 3rd, 2001]

Madam Speaker, it is an honour to participate in this emergency debate, a debate that has far reaching implications for the Alberta livestock industry and all parts of the economy of the country.

A number of weeks ago we had the supply motion on the state of agriculture. A lot of my research for the talk tonight was done in preparation for that supply motion. I am happy to say that a lot of positive things have happened and that we have seen the government move on this non-partisan issue.

The government has reacted to some degree to the concerns brought forward by agriculture and other affected groups in the country. However we always wonder if it is enough. It is a fearful disease but we believe, as my hon. colleague for Medicine Hat said, that we can minimize the threat by taking proper precautions.

This is the forth time I have stood in the House to voice the concerns of my constituents who have called and written my office on a daily basis. To say there have been hundreds of calls would not be an exaggeration. The letters and phone calls that have poured into my office, and the people who have visited in person, have all expressed absolute horror and fear about this infectious livestock disease.

Although I welcome tonight's debate I have reservations, given the lateness of the hour, about how effective it will be in disseminating this important and necessary information. I challenge members from all sides of the House, particularly those who live in predominantly rural Canada where the business sector relies on a strong livestock industry, to take the debate to the constituencies, to their home towns and to townhall meetings to meet the people who are most concerned about it.

Last week I took the initiative and arranged townhall meetings throughout my constituency beginning next Wednesday in Stettler, which is the most central location in my riding. That evening guest speakers will include a representative from the cattlemen's association and an import-export specialist from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

I applaud the government. Tonight we heard a number of members say they did not want to be partisan on the issue. There were reservations about the government allowing the Canadian food inspection agent to come to my riding. However he has been granted the go ahead and will be coming to Stettler on April 11. On the following evening of April 12 he will be in Camrose, the largest urban riding in my constituency of Crowfoot, for another educational forum on this infectious disease.

The best and the most effective way to reach the people of Canada and our constituents is to go to them. We cannot conduct a two way dialogue in the House with the people who are most impacted by the decisions we make and the courses we chart. Our constituents may have specific questions and very plausible solutions. The only way to hear their opinions and address their concerns is to meet them in person.

I therefore urge all members of the House to follow the lead and host townhall meetings during the breaks. I encourage them to put the disease at the forefront of newsletters to their constituents and point out the seriousness and the threat it presents to the Canadian cattle industry.

As I have stated on more than one occasion in the House, and in local papers throughout my riding during the last couple of weeks, farmers are plagued with problems that negatively impact their industry and their ability to produce safe and fine quality foods. We certainly do not need to import a problem that could decimate an already fragile agricultural sector. Precautions must be taken to stop foot and mouth disease from entering this country.

As I have just stated, I receive on a daily basis constituents from throughout my riding who express their concerns about the disease. I empathize and share their anxiety. The largest portion of Alberta's agricultural income comes from the cattle industry. It would be absolutely devastating to the financial well-being of our province and our country if this virus were to attack our cattle.

It would go far beyond the cattle industry. It would affect the whole economy of the country. It would affect the entire agricultural sector. It would affect tourism. It would affect the rural way of life. It would affect the family farm.

As many of my colleagues have already noted, according to livestock industry experts the estimated cost of an outbreak of this disease could be higher than $20 billion in the first year alone.

To fight the 1952 outbreak of foot and mouth disease in Saskatchewan, which affected only 42 farms, we had to put down 1,300 cattle, 300 pigs and 100 sheep. The cost to the Canadian taxpayer and the federal government was $1 million. In today's economy the cost would be close to $7 million for the same 42 farms, and we would be unlikely to contain it to 42 farms. In my constituency there are more than 42 farms in some of the smaller counties alone.

The United Nations food agency has cautioned that no country is completely safe from foot and mouth disease. This is due to a number of factors such as increased international trade, increased international tourism, and the movement of animals and animal products.

Three weeks ago the huge concern in my riding was with the military coming in. The military has understood the concerns about the disease and has reacted to them. It has listened to people's concerns and has moved to rectify the problem. However we still need to take precautions.

Foot and mouth disease was, according to news reports and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, confirmed in the United Kingdom on February 20. It was confirmed in France and Argentina on March 13. Since that time it has moved into the Netherlands and Saudi Arabia and the whole of continental Europe. Foot and mouth disease is extremely serious. It is one of the most contagious of all animal diseases which causes losses in the industry.

Canadian animals are very susceptible according to the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. If an outbreak occurred, the virus could spread rapidly to all parts of the country through routine livestock movement. Unless detected early and eradicated immediately, losses could reach billions of dollars in the first year alone.

We have talked about wildlife. The member for Cypress Hills—Grasslands spoke about the deer, elk and bison and what would happen if infections were carried in them. They would remain like a reservoir for the virus.

Last week the Canadian Cattlemen's Association was here in Ottawa. I had the pleasure of meeting with Dave Salverson, Wilbur Stewart, Kevin Boone, Arno Doerksen and others from Camrose who were very concerned about the outbreak of foot and mouth disease.

Western Canadian ranchers are nervous about the potential of a Canadian outbreak, but their largest fear is that even if it was to come into continental North America, the United States, the borders would be closed. Protectionism would come in and it would negatively affect the industry.

With 50% of our beef exports destined to the United States, western cattlemen say their industry would take a huge hit if their market was closed. The cattle industry is one of the bright spots of Canadian agriculture. We enjoy extremely good beef prices such as we have not seen for a long time. Roughly one in two Canadian steers heads to external markets. Canada does not have a domestic demand like the United States.

We must protect and safeguard the disease from coming in. I implore the government to take every precaution necessary and to ensure that those precautions are stringently being enforced to prevent foot and mouth disease from entering Canada.

What can we do without causing the whole country to break into fear? First, we need to be sure that the public is educated. We need to see posters. Every person travelling internationally needs to have a brochure to understand this type of disease. We need to be sure that travellers understand the ramifications of breaking the law and bringing in, as the hon. member from the other side said, meat and dairy products from other countries. They need to understand that it is severe.

I also implore the government to have a plan ready that the cattle industry would understand. It would help people to realize that they have a government that is listening.

We can combat the disease and we can prevent it from coming into the country by taking safeguards. We need to minimize the threat, but we need to realize how severe it is.

Next week is Emergency Preparedness Week. Communities will be discussing recovery plans from severe weather, fire, flood and other things, but there is nothing that may have as large an impact on society as this disease. We cannot afford to wait. We must be prepared if it strikes.

I thank the member who brought the debate to the House tonight. I believe it is the issue that many Canadians see on the media every night. I appreciate the motion as it was brought forward and the opportunity to come to the House to speak to it.

[Health, March 30th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency has announced increased security at our international airports to ensure that foot and mouth disease does not enter our country. These measures include disinfectant mats and sniffer dogs.

However we have reports from travellers that these measures are not being followed at all international airports. Has the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food personally taken any action to ensure that the CFIA's increased security is rigorously and universally applied at all international airports?

[Health, March 27th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, last week I rose in the House reiterating the concerns being expressed by my predominantly rural riding regarding foot and mouth disease. The letters and calls have not stopped and fears have not been abated as British soldiers continue to be deployed to military camps such as Wainwright, Suffield and Cold Lake.

Hopefully there will be some appeasement given news reports indicating that no British soldiers who have assisted civilians in the United Kingdom with the disposal of carcasses are being sent to Canada and that stringent precautions such as submerging shoes and other personal items in disinfectant are being taken.

I am putting the ministers of defence and agriculture on notice. The cattle industry is the lifeblood of many of my constituents. The economic vibrancy of Alberta depends significantly on a healthy cattle industry.

The ministers must therefore do everything possible to stop foot and mouth disease from invading the country. They are responsible for safeguarding the livelihood of my Crowfoot constituents.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, March 26th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is absolutely right. As I read through Bill C-7 I did not understand the provincial jurisdiction and the federal jurisdiction. A lot of what the hon. member is referring to is true. Funding is definitely lacking.

Our lead critic from Provencher spoke about the provincial jurisdiction and the federal jurisdiction. As a new member in the House I have gone through the bill, but I have not been privy to all the witnesses and all the committee meetings. I have heard concern that we are stepping into provincial jurisdiction and that we are putting expectations on the provinces. We are not willing, as we used to say down on the farm, to put our money where our mouth is.

It is a huge problem when we download to provinces programs which perhaps they should be in charge of and there is no money available to help follow up. The whole thing should be looked at as far as the federal portion of funding is concerned. If they are willing to come with these programs, the government had better be willing to back it up with its wallet.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, March 26th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, the publication of names does two things. It helps to protect society. I talked about that in my speech. As a parent, the publication of names would allow me to be very careful whom my children hang around with. It would let me know about someone living down the street or close by in the community that I would not want my little girl or boy hanging around with.

I could then do one of two things. I could be there all the time that my child is with that individual, or I could step in say that I do not want my child hanging around with those types of people. The publication of names is a good idea.

The fear of their name being publicized creates a deterrent as well. If they commit a crime or are involved in a crime they do not want their community to know. The hon. member is 100% right. It serves as a deterrent and a deterrent that we should not question. Over and above that it give us another tool to protect society and our young people.

We need to publish the names of all violent offenders such as the individual the hon. member came in contact with. We are not asking for the publication of names of individuals who have shoplifted or stolen candy from a candy store. That is not what we are asking for. We are talking about violent offenders.

The school boards said that they wanted to know the names of those involved in crime. It was information they could use to educate. It could also protect society. Other members said names of violent offenders were already published but not to the extreme they would like to see. Some information is provided to schools to a certain degree, but not to the community to the point where I as a parent would know that young Johnny who just moved in is a convicted drug dealer.

The whole issue of drug dealing is not mentioned under violent offences. We should look at what drug dealers are doing to the country. That is another area that should be publicized. It is ripping our country apart. It is to a large degree driving young people into crime. Parents have said that we need to know who the drug dealers are and who is convicted of drug dealing.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, March 26th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, we all recognize the fact that we need to be able to divert non-violent offenders. Diversion should not occur from the judicial system because that is where they enter the system when they commit crimes. There are many community based programs, going back to the Juvenile Delinquents Act, that can be implemented for these young people. Some of them are probably living in the condition of delinquency.

We do not believe that for violent offenders we should be looking at some alternative measures, that there should be some community programs for violent offences. We believe that community based programs or alternate programs may be used for non-violent first time offenders.

Young people can make errors. They get mixed up in the wrong crowd or hang out with people who have bad reputations. They blend in and all of a sudden they find themselves involved in criminal activity on a first time offence. We should see how our communities can bring them back in.

The hon. member mentioned that there are already some community programs in place. Other community programs are being considered where the community itself, understanding their young people and the needs of the community, could probably do two things. They could educate them and help them integrate back into that community or for the safety of other young people could hold them in check.

We are not opposed to alternative measures, but we are opposed to those with third or fourth time offences going through alternative measures. We are opposed to violent criminal acts bypassing incarceration. They are placed in a community program where it is a slap on the wrist and we believe they should be incarcerated.

[Youth Criminal Justice Act, March 26th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, we were speaking to Bill C-7, the amendment to replace the Young Offenders Act with the youth criminal justice act. We were speaking about the use of alternative measures or community based programs for non-violent offenders who pose no threat to society.

We firmly believe that only through lengthy periods of incarceration where there are effective rehabilitation programs including education would violent offenders cease to be dangerous.

We are encouraged that the bill would make these educational and rehabilitation programs mandatory. When and if young offenders are incarcerated, they would be forced to go through programs so that they could be integrated back into society thus making it a safer place to live. Protection of society is the key guiding principle of the Young Offenders Act or of the youth criminal justice act.

According to an old Statistics Canada fact finder a very small percentage of violent offenders are incarcerated. It means that a very small percentage of them are actually held in custody. They are unable to go through those programs while a disproportionate number of non-violent offenders are incarcerated, limiting the space and resources needed to rehabilitate the violent offenders.

Prison is not necessary for young persons who commit minor offences. We are not asking that there be incarceration in that regard. In many cases it may be detrimental to them. They may be assaulted by other violent young offenders or they may also learn from the other ones in the prison system. After their release, depending on how we look at it, the educational program may also allow them to progress to higher levels of crime or lower levels of crime.

We fully support alternative measures but only for non-violent first time offenders. In 1995, with the passage of Bill C-41, the Liberal government legislated conditional sentences and alternative measures. My party fought adamantly but to no avail to amend the legislation limiting the use of conditional sentences to non-violent offences. As a result of the government's failure to make such amendments, judges have repeatedly handed out conditional sentences throughout the country to persons convicted of serious crimes.

There is one case that has been raised many times in the House. A man who abducted and viciously sodomized a young woman was given a conditional sentence. The young woman was scarred for life. She now lives with that in her memories and is plagued by that conditional sentence.

A few weeks ago in Ottawa, another case dealt with a woman who was convicted of attempting to hire a hit man to kill her parents and was given a conditional sentence.

The first and guiding principle of Canada's criminal law should be the protection of society. Without strict limits placed on the use of alternative measures or conditional sentences, whether it be for violent adults or violent youth, the tenet for the protection of society would be violated.

In closing I urge the government to take the step to realize and to recognize the importance of dealing with the protection of society within Canada's criminal law. Do we need changes to the Young Offenders Act? Yes, we do. We applaud the government and the minister for recognizing the inadequacies of the Young Offenders Act and for realizing that we need to make changes.

Bill C-7 falls short. It is short of what is required for the protection of society. We are dealing with our children. The throne speech dealt with our children. The protection of our children and grandchildren is paramount. Bill C-7, although it moves in the right direction, falls short of giving the tools we need to help protect society and our children.

[Division No. 36, March 26th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, before I proceed to speak to Bill C-7, the youth criminal justice act, I would like to take this opportunity to commend my colleague from Surrey North for his prompt and critical review of this rehashed piece of legislation.

As a new member of parliament in this 37th parliament, I also want to commend him for the wealth of information that he made available to us, especially in the justice committee, and for the many times he has helped us out. We appreciate that. I would also like to commend him also for his diligent efforts over the last three years in holding the Liberal government accountable for its failure to bring about immediate and substantive changes to the young offenders act.

My Alliance colleague lends credibility to this debate. He turned a personal tragedy, the death of his son, into a crusade. Starting with the establishment of a new group called CRY, crime, responsibility and youth, the member for Surrey North succeeded in drawing attention to the inadequacies of the youth justice system and its failure to hold young people responsible for their criminal actions.

Since his election to the House in 1997, he has utilized his wealth of information and exercised diplomacy while working with members of all sides of the House to amend bills, especially those bills that preceded Bill C-7.

I also congratulate the member for Provencher for his election to the House and for his appointment as lead justice critic for the Canadian Alliance.

The former Manitoba attorney general's speech earlier this month clearly demonstrated his experience and knowledge regarding the Young Offenders Act. I also appreciated his references to federal-provincial financial agreements and how they have come to play a part in the bill.

In June 1997 the justice minister promised to make amending the Young Offenders Act a priority. Nearly three and a half years later Canadians are still saddled with an ineffective law that has failed to adequately hold young people accountable for criminal behaviour. In 1997 the minister realized the need to amend the act. She said, and it was publicized, that it was clearly the most unpopular legislation in Canada.

More than five years ago, following the 10th anniversary of the Young Offenders Act, the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs initiated a review of the justice system. After months of cross country hearings, submissions and presentations by people with a vested interest in youth justice, and at a cost of almost half a million dollars, the committee tabled a report in April 1997. The report contained a number of recommendations to amend the Young Offenders Act.

In dissent, the Canadian Alliance presented a minority report which contained a number of recommendations we believed were important. Unlike those of the committee, my party's recommendations dealt with and fell exclusively within federal jurisdiction.

Unfortunately I do not have time to go into all the recommendations and details of our report. However I will use my allotted time to deal with some of the more important or significant points of it.

The most important recommendation was to make the protection of society the guiding principle of the youth criminal justice act. We live in a time when individuals, boards, committees and businesses are all looking to come up with a mission statement or guiding principle which, as they focus on the direction they are taking, they can keep in mind.

The top priority and guiding principle of Bill C-7 needs to be the protection of society. Appearing before the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs in October 1996, Mr. Victor Doerkson, a member of the Alberta legislature for Red Deer South, said:

In listening to Albertans, one lesson became very clear. The protection of society should take priority over all other considerations and there must be accountability on the part of all offenders—Alberta also recommends that the declaration of principles within the act be amended to give the protection of society and offender accountability priority over all other considerations.

The member of the legislature, who spoke on behalf of many Albertans, said the people were telling him that protection of society must be the guiding principle. Bill C-7 does not do that. It does not, as recommended by the Alberta MLA and many others who appeared before the standing committee, make protection of society the first and guiding principle of the youth justice act.

According to the declaration of principles, safety and security of Canadians is secondary to the rehabilitation and reintegration of the offender back into society.

The Juvenile Delinquents Act came into effect in 1908. It created an informal juvenile justice system that was separate from the adult system. The guiding principles of the Child Welfare Act were that young offenders were not criminals but rather misguided children in “a condition of delinquency”. Because of that condition of delinquency they were not to be punished. They were rather to be treated. That was the guiding principle of the Juvenile Delinquents Act.

Under the Juvenile Delinquents Act there was no specific sentencing and the judges had very significant discretion in dealing with young offenders. This meant that in some jurisdictions judges handed out extremely stiff sentences, including periods of incarceration for fairly minor crimes, while in other jurisdictions light sentences of open custody were given to violent offenders.

This is unfair. It is unfair to the offender. It is unfair to the victim. It is unfair to the public at large as there was no guarantee in the law that the offender would be incarcerated.

Recognizing that the exclusively welfare oriented focus of the Juvenile Delinquents Act was not appropriate and to reduce judicial discretion, the process of reforming the Juvenile Delinquents Act began in the 1960s. It was not, however, until the early 1980s with the introduction of the famous charter of rights and freedoms that major juvenile delinquent reform became inevitable.

The Juvenile Delinquents Act was inconsistent with the emphasis on due process that was in the charter. In particular, it was considered to be contrary to section 15 of the charter of rights and freedoms which came into effect in 1985. Section 15 guaranteed equality before the law.

Besides failing to make the protection of society the guiding principle in the bill, it would also effectively enact the contentious portion of the Juvenile Delinquents Act that wrongfully promoted an inequitable application of criminal law, in that it would provide far too much discretion to the youth courts.

We on this side of the House do not accept the Liberal government's chequerboard approach to the justice that appears to be at the very crux of the youth criminal justice act. We also do not accept the minister's outright rejection of what I consider to be the next two most important principles or recommendations of my party for amending the Young Offenders Act.

The minister has again refused to lower the age of criminality to encompass 10 and 11 year olds in limited circumstances. She has rejected allowing for the publication of the names of all violent offenders. The only way to ensure the safety of our children and grandchildren is to provide parents with the names of violent and dangerous offenders.

We do not have that right now. I listened with great interest to speech of the parliamentary secretary as he elaborated on what may happen if we had those rights. As parents, we need to know who in the school systems, for example, may be threatening our children or perhaps those in schools associating with our children that they need to be careful of. The only way to ensure the safety of our children and grandchildren is to provide the names of these children.

Also the bill does not, and I believe it should, allow the names of drug dealers to be put on that list. This category of offender has wrongly been missed in the new legislation.

Many Canadian schools, including public schools, are faced with serious troubles. We had representation from the school trustee boards that came around and visited with many members of parliament in the last week. They expressed the need to know who the students are in the school systems that perhaps have been through violent offences or are in trouble with the law.

Drugs are a serious problem in schools. According to a 1999 special edition of the province in Burnaby, British Columbia, police are seeing 13 and 14 year old kids selling crack cocaine. The report went on as well to say that girls of the same age were trading sex for drugs.

The same report revealed that 75% of high school students in Coquitlam, B.C., experiment with drugs. An estimated 10% of them misuse drugs on a regular basis and up to half of them have become addicted.

We as parents have the right to know who our children are associating with. We have the right to know if a convicted drug dealer is attending school with our children. We have the right to know if there is a violent young sex offender living three or four houses down the street.

We have the right to know. We must have the right to protect our children. That is why we on this side of the House believe that the names of violent offenders, including drug dealers, should be published.

With regard to lowering the age of criminality to 10, Professor Nicholas Bala of Queen's University, who appeared before the standing committee on justice, summarized a Statistics Canada survey of 27 police forces in Canada.

The data indicated that offending behaviour by children under the age of 12 was very significant. Despite this fact, authorities are powerless to hold these children legally responsible for their criminal actions. Although a number of provinces have a child welfare system that can and does deal with these children adequately, many provinces do not have such a program. Repeatedly witnesses came before the standing committee on justice and bore witness to the fact that violent offences with a welfare response was inappropriate.

Lowering the age to 10 does not mean that there will be a huge influx of 10 and 11 year olds into the system. It does not mean that we will be inundated with 10 and 11 year olds as they are drawn into the justice system. The system can divert most children of this age away from any formal response, particularly with the support of alternative measures or community based programs.

By amending the age we will in the very few cases of violent offenders have the means to provide these children with the rehabilitation they need. As it stands now, the minister has abandoned 10 and 11 year olds who by committing criminal acts signal that they are in need of help.

As we researched a speech for an earlier debate in the House we noticed that many criminals were taking advantage of the fact that 10 and 11 year olds were not touched by the justice system. They were drawing them in to be drug runners in other ways. If these people are falling through the cracks they need to be helped.

Appearing before the standing committee during its indepth review of the Young Offenders Act, in reference to lowering the age, a representative from Citizens Against Violence said:

Preferably I would like to see the age in the Young Offenders Act lowered to 10, because there's a mindset among today's youth who are becoming well educated in the criminal field that they cannot be touched under the age of 12—We would like to see the age lowered so that the kids themselves know they have to face responsibility for their actions.

The last recommendation I should like to touch on today is the need to differentiate between non-violent crime and violent crime for the purpose of sentencing. We on this side of the House recommend that the minister restrict the use of alternative measures or community based programs to non-violent offenders who pose no threat to society.

We firmly believe that only through lengthy periods of incarceration, where there are effective rehabilitation programs including education, will violent offenders cease to be dangerous.