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Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was respect.

Last in Parliament October 2015, as Conservative MP for Saskatoon—Wanuskewin (Saskatchewan)

Won his last election, in 2011, with 58% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Income Tax Amendments Act, 1999 May 4th, 2000

Madam Speaker, my colleague was giving some very enlightening comments on our 17% tax proposal. I want him to carry on a bit to clarify and enlighten all of us here and the viewing audience as well.

Let us keep this real simple and use the example of a husband and wife with no kids on the scene. I have a brother and his wife who are in that situation. If they had an income of $40,000 and they each had this $10,000 exemption, in effect they are going to be paying 17% tax on that additional $20,000. Am I correct in understanding that they are not going to be paying 17% on that second $20,000, from $20,000 to $40,000? At that level they will not be paying 17%. It would be much less. In fact one would have to have a fairly good wage before one would be paying anywhere close to that actual 17%.

Human Resources Development May 4th, 2000

Mr. Speaker, I have read it very carefully side by side. There is no material difference from the draft to the final version.

Deloitte & Touche recommended this. They said “the draft plan does not clearly assign leadership and responsibility. It does not clearly assign to specific individuals the actions they are responsible for. It does not establish timelines, deliverables and milestones. It does not identify the systems and practices needed to monitor progress”.

They are not in the final six point plan. If the minister is prepared to change her website contents at the drop of a hat, why did she not amend her plan to include the Deloitte & Touche recommendations?

Human Resources Development May 4th, 2000

Mr. Speaker, after days of watching the minister stumble and fumble in question period the human resources department slyly changed the contents of the six point plan on its website.

Yesterday the six point plan on the website did not mention anything about incorporating the advice of Deloitte & Touche. Today mysteriously it does. There are five words strangely added. Why was the minister trying to alter the record by changing her website?

Human Resources Development May 4th, 2000

Mr. Speaker, after watching the minister fumble and stumble for days in question period—

Human Resources Development May 3rd, 2000

Mr. Speaker, here is a section of the Deloitte & Touche report which fell short of endorsing that six point plan. I think this should frighten taxpayers. It says “The draft plan does not clearly assign leadership and responsibility, does not clearly assign to specific individuals the actions they are responsible for, does not establish time lines, deliverables and milestones, does not identify the systems and practices needed to monitor progress”. In other words, the six point plan does exactly the same thing as what bungled the $1 billion in the first place. If she cannot convince Deloitte & Touche, how can she—

Human Resources Development May 3rd, 2000

Mr. Speaker, here is some more criticism from the Deloitte & Touche report which did not endorse the six point plan. It said “The leadership, responsibility and accountability needs to be identified”. According to the HRDC audit, the $1 billion was bungled in the first place precisely because of a lack of leadership, responsibility and accountability.

Why did the minister learn nothing from her own department's audit?

Criminal Code May 2nd, 2000

Mr. Speaker, I think it was the understanding of all members in the House, including the Liberal member opposite, that the use of section 33, the notwithstanding clause, was only “if necessary”. We would first use the full extent of the law and the appeals process. Because of the importance of this whole issue, once that was exhausted only then would section 33 kick in. The record has to be clear. We are not talking about using section 33 pre-emptively or prematurely.

I note with some sadness though, and members of the House may be aware of the fact, that the government has defended section 43.

On the other hand it is with sadness that I say it has also funded the Canadian Foundation for Children, Youth and the Law, the very group that brought this challenge into the Ontario superior court to declare section 43 in violation of the charter. It is a bit sad that tax dollars are used by the government to erode or undermine section 43 by way of the funding dollars given to such a group through the court challenges program.

In the remaining moments I want to talk about what the research says about the effects of physical discipline on children. A number of studies have been done over the years. Some studies have found negative outcomes while others have found positive ones. I would like to describe why the conclusions have varied so much by referring to the work of Dr. Robert Larzelere of the University of Nebraska Medical Centre.

In 1996 he published in the journal “Pediatrics” one of the most important resources we have for understanding the debate among current researchers. He undertook a literary review of all the empirical studies published in scholarly journals over the last 30 years. He studied 35 relevant articles on this topic and found conflicting results among them.

In reviewing the literature he discovered that the different results could largely be explained by the different methods and approaches used by the researchers. His key finding was that studies which show that physical punishment had negative results did not distinguish abusive from non-abusive physical discipline. They sought families in which physical discipline was used but failed to inquire about the nature of the physical discipline. Some of these methodologically flawed studies then included family situations where unreasonably harsh or abusive measures of physical punishment were used. On the other hand, studies which showed positive results from physical punishment or discipline, the word I would prefer to use, were the ones that excluded abusive family situations.

Here is a breakdown of the results from those 35 studies done by Dr. Larzelere. Only 11 of the 35 studies excluded abusive family situations. Those are the ones within the parameters, the ones to consider. The others in effect could be set aside because they had a methodologically flawed approach. Six of these eleven studies showed beneficial outcomes, four showed neutral outcomes, and only one showed any negative outcome. That suggests that when used properly by parents who truly love their children, mild, moderate physical correction when kids are young can have positive results and no negative results.

These observations are relevant to the debate over section 43 of the criminal code. Both sides in the debate agree that abusive physical punishment is harmful to children. We should not allow it or tolerate it. Where we disagree is on the effects of non-abusive physical punishment.

The studies that saw negative results from physical correction, which included abusive family situations, have to be disregarded in the interest of fairness and in the interest of truth for the situation here if we want to learn about the outcomes of non-abusive physical discipline by loving parents.

I can cite from my own family situation. I have a son who is 21 years old, a daughter who is 18 years old, a son who is 6 years old, and a little one who is five months old. The six year old has had one little spank on the bottom in his some six years of life. Considering his personality and so on, I suspect that he will not ever require more than a glance sideways or some other method of discipline. However I do believe that the backup, the fact that he knew it happened once in the far distant past, is a good thing. It is also helpful that we use all other alternative methods of discipline.

I think we cannot confuse apples and oranges here by talking about clearly abusive family situations where there is all kinds of dysfunction and balanced and proper functioning family situations.

There have actually been more recent studies since the 1996 publication of Dr. Larzelere's article, but all those studies do not challenge the finding of his literary review that in non-abusive situations physical correction can in fact be positive and beneficial to the child. The most recent study by Marjorie Gunnoe in Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine , August 1997, provides important confirmation of those findings.

At this point I very humbly and straightforwardly seek unanimous consent of the House to have the motion before us deemed adopted and passed.

Criminal Code May 2nd, 2000

moved:

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should defend the constitutionality of Section 43 of the Criminal Code in the Courts and, if necessary, should take legislative action to reinstate Section 43 in the event that it is struck down, including invoking the notwithstanding clause of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (Section 33 of the Constitution Act, 1982).

Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege and an honour for me to rise to speak to Motion No. 341, a motion which would protect teachers, parents and their children from unwarranted and heavy handed state intrusion. I will read the motion again:

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should defend the constitutionality of Section 43 of the Criminal Code in the Courts and, if necessary, should take legislative action to reinstate Section 43 in the event that it is struck down, including invoking the notwithstanding clause of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The reason I brought the motion forward is that some children rights advocates want to see section 43 declared by the courts to be in violation of the charter of rights and freedoms.

In December 1999 a group calling itself the Canadian Foundation for Children, Youth and the Law asked the Ontario superior court to declare section 43 to be in violation of the charter and therefore unconstitutional. My motion opposes such efforts. I understand from other colleagues in the House today that there is a fair bit of support for the nature of the motion before us, and I am grateful.

Under section 43 of the criminal code today parents are allowed to use physical force to restrain or correct their children as long as it is not abusive, is by way of correction and is reasonable under the circumstances. The relevant statute is section 43 of the criminal code which reads as follows:

Every school teacher, parent or person standing in the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child, as the case may be, who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances.

This section of the code limits the way force can be used on a child in two ways. First, a parent is justified in using force only if the force is intended and used for a specific purpose, namely by way of correction.

That requirement has existed in Canadian law since 1864 in a decision in which the court stated that the power of correction can only be used in the interest of instruction. It cannot be for some arbitrariness, anger or bad humour. That would be an offence punishable like other ordinary offences.

In other words, force is only justifiable if it is used in the best interest of a child to correct a child from engaging in improper conduct. The section does not justify a parent using force to vent anger. An instructional purpose with respect to the child's interest must motivate the use of force.

Second, a parent's use of force is limited also in that it must be reasonable under the circumstances. In assessing whether the force used by the parent was reasonable, the courts have formulated a test which considers the following factors, and I think they are good factors.

The court takes into account the nature of the child's offence calling for punishment and whether such conduct merits punishment. It takes into account the age and the character of that child; the likely effect of punishment on the child; the degree and gravity of the punishment; the manner in which the punishment was inflicted; the injuries that resulted, if any; the parts of the body where the force was applied; and whether punishment was motivated by arbitrariness, caprice, anger or bad temper.

While judges sometimes apply these criteria differently it is safe to say that the successful application of such criteria demonstrates the effectiveness and the value of section 43.

In court hearings in December last year the Coalition for Family Autonomy noted that a database search of the weekly criminal bulletin showed that there were 99 cases in which parental discipline was the issue. In these cases we see the criteria of reasonableness at work. For example, since 1965 there have been five cases where acquittals were entered when bruising occurred but 16 cases involving bruising where the accused was convicted. The court took this into account and convicted 16 of these individuals.

In cases involving objects used to strike a child, the case survey indicates that there were twice as many convictions as acquittals. Of the 47 cases which reported the use of some object in striking or the “discipline”, there were 31 convictions and just 13 acquittals. In every case involving children under two a conviction was entered. The case law survey also indicated that courts are mindful of the manner in which the discipline is administered.

The point is simply that section 43 has operated in practice in a manner where the jurisprudence has developed a detailed set of factors which the courts have used to interpret section 43 and its demand for reasonableness. All this points to the fact that this section in the criminal code is both workable and is working.

In the 34 year period from 1965 to 1999 in only 24 of the 99 cases found in the database search was there an acquittal of a parent charged of assaulting his or her child. That very low number hardly suggests that adults are routinely using section 43 to get away with abusing their children. In fact the more numerous convictions indicate otherwise. In the 24 acquittals there may have been instances in which the judge made a error and should not have acquitted the parent. That is a problem with the judge. The appeals should happen and it should be pursued to the full extent of the law.

Section 43 of the criminal code is doing its job. Prior to the enactment of this section of the code there was no legislation placing limits on the use of physical correction and there were no government agencies designed to protect children from abuse. When section 43 of the code came into law, children had for the first time legal protection from physical abuse. Thanks to section 43 parents cannot physically abuse their children in the name of discipline. They cannot exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances. As long as the police and the courts do their jobs, child abusers will be prosecuted under the law.

It is somewhat ironic that the very same people who are arguing for the removal of section 43, argue that it protects only parental rights. That is clearly not the case. The irony is that the whole reason section 43 came into existence in the first place was to balance the right of parents to correct the behaviour of their children and the rights of children not to be abused.

It is a good law. It was well conceived at the time. It has served its purpose well and continues to serve us well today. For that reason section 43 strikes that necessary balance between the rights of parents and the rights of children. On one hand, parents must have the freedom to fulfil their responsibility to their children and to society and to raise their children to be moral, decent people who respect others. On the other hand, we believe that children have the right to be free from physical abuse and bodily harm. Section 43 strikes that proper balance.

That is why it is disconcerting that some children rights advocates, specifically the group calling itself the Canadian Foundation for Children, Youth and the Law, are trying to have this section of the criminal code removed or declared unconstitutional. If this group succeeds in having section 43 struck down, the results would be absurd and totally unacceptable. Many good and loving parents from that point on would be made criminals overnight.

The statistics indicate that some 70% of parents spank their child from time to time as a reasonable corrective discipline in respect to their children. Removing section 43 would mean that many of them would become criminals overnight. It would simply not be true of parents who swat little Johnny on the bottom from time to time. It would be true of parents who do not even spank their children. When a parent tries to restrain a child, that could be treated as an assault subject to criminal prosecution.

I am going to talk about why there is a real chill for teachers if section 43 is removed. If section 43 is removed, a parent could be charged with criminal assault for forcibly removing a misbehaving child from a shopping mall, for picking up a misbehaving child and putting him or her out of the way of harm or for putting him or her to bed against his or her will. Teachers share this exact same concern.

The Canadian Teachers' Federation appeared as an intervenor in last December's court case in Ontario and argued in favour of retaining section 43 of the criminal code. The federation believed that removing the section would be detrimental to maintaining a safe and secure school environment. The federation pointed to a number of day to day school situations in which the safety of students and the learning environment could be adversely affected.

I am sure there are teachers here who could tell us of specific instances where restraint is required in a school situation for the safety of a student and the protection of others as well. The teachers in their intervention cited instances where there is the need to protect students or teachers when a fight occurs at school, including the need to restrain those students if necessary. Also there are situations where there is a need to escort an uncooperative student to the principal's office, to bring him or her along by the arm. In that instance lo and behold an assault charge may be laid for that type of escort down the hall.

The teachers referred to a situation involving ejecting a student who refuses to leave the classroom or the school itself. The teachers' federation also referred in its intervention to situations such as during a field trip when they have to place a young student on the bus who has refused to return to the bus. There are also situations where teachers may have to restrain a cognitively impaired student.

The teachers' federation is concerned that if section 43 were removed from the criminal code, the result would be widespread fear among teachers of being charged with assault. As a precaution teachers would be advised or would choose not to intervene in school situations since stepping in to resolve the difficult situation might lead to their being charged with assault. That reticence of teachers to step into the gap could result in more serious injuries to students as well as in a deterioration of the school learning environment.

Removing section 43 for our schools and Canadian families would be a disgrace to our judicial system. If it were struck down, it would be a massive intrusion of the state into the educational and family environments of our nation. Former Prime Minister Trudeau said that the state had no business in the bedrooms of the nation. Anyone who removes section 43 of the criminal code will be moving the state into the nation's family rooms. That would be tragic. The state makes a lousy parent and should not presume to tell parents how best to shape the moral character of their children as long as abuse is not involved.

That is why I have introduced this motion, to defend section 43 of the criminal code, even to the extent of going into court situations and invoking the notwithstanding clause if necessary. The aim of the motion is to enable caring non-abusive parents to do the best job possible of raising their children to be responsible, well adjusted individuals and members of society. It protects the rights of parents to raise their children in accordance with their moral and religious beliefs about the effect of child rearing, their personal knowledge of the unique characteristics of their own children and their own understanding of how best to discipline children which has been gained from their parents and their own experiences during childhood.

The motion accomplishes this goal in two ways. First, it requires that the government defend section 43 of the criminal code in the courts. In the event that one or more rulings were to strike down section 43, the motion would permit the government to invoke the notwithstanding clause of the charter of rights and freedoms. Notwithstanding a court's decision to strike down the law, section 43 would remain the law of the land. After the Sharpe decision relating to child pornography, more and more parliamentarians are realizing that parliament has an obligation to protect Canadians from judicial rulings which we cannot understand and which do not make a lot of sense.

Parenting has always been a challenge. Raising children to be responsible and law-abiding members of society is more of a challenge than ever before. The surge in teen violence during the past decade testifies to that fact. The shootings a year ago in high schools in the U.S. and Canada have horrified all of us. Now is not the time to handicap parents in their role as moral guides. It is for these reasons that I brought forward this initiative.

In my wrap-up in the last five minutes I will refer to some of the effects of physical discipline on children.

At this time I want to ask for the unanimous consent of the House to have the motion before us deemed adopted and passed.

Crimes Against Humanity Act April 14th, 2000

Madam Speaker, I wonder if the hon. member is aware that article 44 in the documents from Rome provides that the international criminal court may employ, free of charge, expertise of personnel provided by state members and individual NGOs. To me that will mean that well-funded radical groups will be stacking this court with their selected radicals. Article 105 also provides that the $80 million annual cost to the ICC could be defrayed by voluntary donations.

I wonder if he has a concern that groups like the Rockefeller and Ford foundations will be contributing to the court with many strings attached.

Crimes Against Humanity Act April 14th, 2000

Madam Speaker, my question is with respect to some of the other material in the Statutes of Rome. I am referring to a rather intriguing section in chapter 6 under genocide.

How would the member define the things included under article 6(b)? It talks about causing mental harm to members of the group. In another place I read in article 8(c)(ii) that it talks about committing outrageous acts upon personal dignity. Would the member have a way of defining or telling me exactly what that means?