Debates of May 4th, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is incorrect. The recommendations of Deloitte & Touche were incorporated.

What is interesting here is I recall that the hon. member, when asked by the media about the six point plan, said it is something that should have been implemented a long time ago. Does she think differently now?

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that was the last time I took the minister's word for anything.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

The minister uses the credibility of Deloitte & Touche, but the fact is that the firm never saw the final draft of her plan. The minister never even let on to anyone that they gave her plan a failing grade, the plan that she was bragging about.

The minister now says their advice was incorporated but there is nothing to back that up. Deloitte & Touche were obviously disapproving of the first draft. Why did the minister not make sure they were satisfied with the final version before using their name as an endorsement?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, Deloitte & Touche was contracted to give us advice on the draft. They did that. We implemented their recommendations and the auditor general, having seen the final plan, endorsed it.

The other thing I would like to point out yet again is that on February 10 I presented that plan to the committee and I asked for committee members to make any further recommendations they would like to see in that action plan. I received no recommendations from that party.

Cinar

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, according to Pierre-Yves Cartier, an officer of the RCMP, the hands of the RCMP are being tied by Revenue Canada. This situation is unacceptable.

How can the solicitor general explain that the RCMP, for which he is responsible, is reduced to having to go on TV in order to be able to continue with its investigation and to do its job?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I have been informed by the RCMP that there was excellent co-operation. Under the laws of this country there is some information that can or cannot be submitted from one department to another, but there is excellent co-operation.

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, can the solicitor general provide this House with a guarantee that the officer who did his job by denouncing the lack of co-operation from the revenue department will not be the victim of reprisals?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said a number of times in the House, I am not responsible for the internal operations of the RCMP. I am also not responsible for any disciplinary action that might be taken within the RCMP.

Human Resources Development

[Maurice Vellacott, Reform, Wanuskewin, SK]

Mr. Speaker, after watching the minister fumble and stumble for days in question period—

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Why are you minister? Why are you minister if you are not doing anything? You don't have any responsibility.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member for Wanuskewin.

[Maurice Vellacott, Reform, Wanuskewin, SK]

Mr. Speaker, after days of watching the minister stumble and fumble in question period the human resources department slyly changed the contents of the six point plan on its website.

Yesterday the six point plan on the website did not mention anything about incorporating the advice of Deloitte & Touche. Today mysteriously it does. There are five words strangely added. Why was the minister trying to alter the record by changing her website?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, we added it for the benefit of members of that party. Even though I have told them time and again, day after day that we incorporated the recommendations of Deloitte & Touche, they do not get it. I thought maybe if they read it on the website they would.

[Maurice Vellacott, Reform, Wanuskewin, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I have read it very carefully side by side. There is no material difference from the draft to the final version.

Deloitte & Touche recommended this. They said “the draft plan does not clearly assign leadership and responsibility. It does not clearly assign to specific individuals the actions they are responsible for. It does not establish timelines, deliverables and milestones. It does not identify the systems and practices needed to monitor progress”.

They are not in the final six point plan. If the minister is prepared to change her website contents at the drop of a hat, why did she not amend her plan to include the Deloitte & Touche recommendations?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is wrong. We incorporated the recommendations.

I say again that if the hon. member wanted to make further recommendations for improvements I would have been glad to receive them, but I received none because on that side of the House they are not interested in this issue at all.

They want to cut a billion dollars from people with disabilities. They do not want to help them get jobs. They want to cut a billion dollars for young people, youth at risk who do not have the opportunities to find employment that they so desperately need. They want to cut a billion dollars from the grants and contributions program so that those regions of the country that have not been able to benefit from our economic upsurge have got the opportunity—

[The Speaker]

The hon. leader of the Bloc Quebecois.

Cinar

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, according to the investigator himself, there are key players who may elude the RCMP in the CINAR affair. There are persisting rumors to the effect that one or more law firms specializing in copyrights and close to the Liberals might be involved in this affair.

What interest does the Minister of National Revenue have in frustrating the investigation?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Revenue is certainly not frustrating the investigation. That is totally false.

The Income Tax Act is designed to protect the rights of Canadians to privacy. As a country, we have decided, under our legislation, that the personal financial data collected for the purposes of the Income Tax Act should not be accessible to police forces for investigation purposes.

This is what we decided as a parliament, as an institution. I respect the decision made by this parliament. Some day that decision will certainly be changed, but in the meantime, it is the law of the land.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the parliamentary leader tells us that the act will certainly be changed.

This government cares a great deal about its image. Yet, when we ask questions about Placeteco, we are told that the invoices have disappeared. When we ask questions to the solicitor general, he tells us he is not responsible for anything. When we ask questions to the Minister of National Revenue, he cannot talk.

The RCMP investigator told us that the government's interpretation of the act was very strict and that a more flexible interpretation would allow them to find the guilty parties. This is from a government that asked, in the Airbus affair, that banking secrecy be ignored. Is there not a taint of corruption around this government?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite, the Bloc Quebecois leader is stretching the facts somewhat, but I will try to be polite. I do not want to make accusations.

What I said is that, if the Income Tax Act is changed some day, we will certainly comply with it. The law is the law, and we intend to comply with it.

In the meantime, I would ask the Bloc Quebecois leader to consult with his colleague, the hon. member for Chambly, who will recognize, as we all do in this House, that Canada's legislation regarding privacy, particularly the data contained in revenue files, is extremely important. The hon. member is well aware of that reality, even if other members of the Bloc Quebecois seem to forget it.

Airline Industry

[Val Meredith, Reform, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as Air Canada continues to consolidate its dominance of the domestic airline industry, the minister claims that Bill C-26 is the only thing to protect consumers.

The competition commissioner stated last fall that it was vital that every opportunity be taken to promote and create competition. Will the minister finally take the competition commissioner's advice and create some much needed competition by addressing the foreign ownership component and Canada only carriers?