Peter MacKay

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, here is what we will do. I will do him one better. We will look at all the documents that will be placed before the parliamentary committee, going back beyond the time that we took office. We will see what his government's record was and how it stacks up against the efforts that we have made to improve the conditions in Afghan prisons.

We will look at all of that evidence and then we will see where conditions were improved, when actual investments were made and when the real work was done to improve the situation in Afghanistan, not the Liberals' lame effort.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, we know the hon. member is not an expert by any means on what happens in Afghan prisons but he can teach lessons on how to smear.

The hon. member will know that Canada has made substantial investments in improving the human rights situation in Afghanistan. I mentioned $132 million of investments and that included $7 million over four years to support the work of the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission; $5.5 million to improve conditions in Afghan detention centres and human rights training in prisons; and $99 million for training, mentoring and equipping the Afghan national army and police.

That is action. His--

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, we have provided the truth but unfortunately the hon. member does not want to accept the truth. We have had quarterly reports. We have responded to the House. We have responded to parliamentary committees. We have responded to ongoing investigations and we will continue to do so.

What is important though is to suggest that having an individual make remarks that are not credible and unsubstantiated does not somehow require further examination. That is what we have done. We know that other individuals, including Mr. Mulroney and other professional public servants, will appear before committees to give evidence. In fact, I think they are anxious to do so.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, we have been completely transparent. We have had quarterly reports. We have answered questions in the House. Ministers have appeared before committees. We continue to cooperate with ongoing investigations. We provide information daily in question period.

What the hon. member is forgetting is that, unlike his government, we have made substantial efforts to improve the situation in Afghanistan. We have empowered officials to go into prisons. We have given our armed forces the necessary equipment it needs to do its job.

I will put our record up against his failed record any day.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Here is a quote for the hon. member, who is always so reasoned and pointed, Mr. Speaker. This is from a colleague of the individual who gave evidence last week. Paul Chapin, a former diplomat, said, “I think that what set me back is how serious the allegations are and how flimsy the evidence [is].” He went on to say, “It would have been rather more reassuring had he been able to provide some of the detail that would give credibility to these serious allegations”.

These are not partisan comments. These are from an individual who worked in the professional public service of Canada. These are serious allegations. It requires serious evidence to back it up, not just taking someone's word for it.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Let us examine that, Mr. Speaker. The reality is we are truth seeking in this exercise. We want to hear from individuals and we want to put the truth on the record, the truth being, obviously, that we have invested heavily in the improvement of the situation in Afghanistan.

It is clearly undeniable that we improved the transfer arrangement we inherited, the failed arrangement put in place by the previous government. We do want to hear from individuals who can bring forward credible, proven allegations, not just recitations of what was heard, what was passed on, what was read in reports, or what was disclosed by Taliban prisoners themselves. That is what the evidence is so far. We have not seen a single scintilla of proof.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Let us let due process, Mr. Speaker, determine what the facts are here. Let us actually let the parliamentary committee hear from individuals on the ground who were doing their important work.

I do appreciate the fact that he has pointed out that not a single Canadian, whether Canadian Forces or otherwise, is implicated in any wrongdoing. That is important for Canadians to understand.

It is also important to remember that the enhanced agreement was put in place by this government because of the failings of the previous administration to do its important work to protect Canadians in the field working to improve the situation in Afghanistan. That is something those members will have to explain over time.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Let us be clear, Mr. Speaker, Canadian officials in Afghanistan absolutely abide by international obligations. They absolutely abide by the Geneva Convention and they are further enabled to carry out those responsibilities because of a new enhanced transfer arrangement.

Let the hon. member explain to the House and Canadians why it was that his government, when leaving office, only put in place an inadequate transfer arrangement that we had to improve upon months after taking office.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member demonstrates very little faith in the parliamentary committee and in the independent arm's-length organizations that are currently looking at the issue. In fact, he shows very little faith at all in having evidence substantiated or actually proven. That is what is important.

It is also important to note, again, that not a single, solitary, proven allegation involving a transfer of a Taliban prisoner from the Canadian Forces has been proven. The operational details on the ground are available. We will be hearing from more witnesses this week and I suspect more in the future. Let us hear what those people have to say.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly the point. The hon. member wants to just accept that some of this or all of this applies to prisoners transferred by Canadians, and that in fact is not the case. That is the crux of the issue. We are asking for these allegations to be proven. There have been no proven allegations that we can refer to.

What is important is to listen to somebody who is there on the ground. Gail Latouche of Correctional Service of Canada reports that, in fact, unequivocally, she and three of her colleagues working in Afghanistan have said there is zero evidence of torture and abuse, based on the visits taken place by Canadian officials.