Peter MacKay

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, the facts and figures that the hon. member has put forward do not apply to prisoners transferred from the Canadian Forces. Those are broad-sweeping numbers that speak to the conditions in the prison. They do not apply to the numbers that were transferred by Canadian Forces.

With respect to what we did, we stopped transferring when the agreement was not working; an agreement that we improved upon; an agreement that enabled unannounced, unfettered access to prisoners that we transferred.

Let us talk about where the responsibility begins and ends. We took responsibility. We acted. We improved the situation and continue to do so.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, we have taken responsibility. We have acted. We have invested. In fact, to date, Canadians have made over 180 visits to detention facilities. That came about as a result of the new transfer arrangement.

In fact, we have gone further. We have invested $132 million in improving the Afghan prison system. We have invested in its officials. We have spent time training officials. We will continue to do so.

In fact, to quote an individual involved in this effort, Gail Latouche of Correctional Service of Canada said, “Corrections Canada who do the same work have seen zero evidence of torture or other abuse”.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, it is a bogus allegation. We have suggested the testimony that was heard last week is not credible. It is not substantiated. In fact, references to all prisoners being tortured, to innocent people being rounded up by the Canadian Forces does exactly what members of the opposition do not want; that is, cast aspersions over the Canadian Forces and the work they are doing.

We are protecting people. We are investing to improve the capacity of how Afghans treat Taliban prisoners. We have invested heavily in that regard. We will continue to do so. To cast aspersions and blur the issue is to dishonour the services being provided--

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, let us be clear. The Government of Canada does not control the communication policy of 28 NATO member countries. In fact, to suggest so is absolutely ridiculous. But let us come back to the main issue though. The fact is we acted decisively two and a half years ago. We started investing in the training of prison officials, investing in the physical surroundings of those prisons. We have spent time, money and effort, and sent qualified people to those prisons to monitor conditions. We continue to do so because of an enhanced arrangement, when we inherited an inadequate arrangement left in place by the previous government. Unlike the previous government, we acted.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, there has not been a single, solitary, proven allegation of a prisoner being abused that was transferred from the Canadian Forces. In fact, what Afghan officials did to Taliban prisoners is what is blurring some of this issue. It is very clear that the Canadian Forces and all government departments take allegations seriously, and they act.

They have been absolutely in compliance with international conventions, including the Geneva Convention, and have made substantial improvements in the Afghan justice system. We continue to invest. In fact, $132 million has gone into addressing this issue and we will continue to act with their good work.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, let us come back to facts. Let us talk about the fact that there is a parliamentary inquiry ongoing and, in fact, that the Military Police Complaints Commission was shut down at the call of the chair.

With respect to how this impacts on Canadian Forces, let us be very clear. There has not been a single proven allegation involving a prisoner transferred from the Canadian Forces. They are doing exceptional work in a very difficult mission in Afghanistan. They continue to labour under those challenges. The last thing they want to do is be smeared by members of the opposition suggesting wrongdoing on their part.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, let us be clear. There has never been a single proven allegation of abuse involving a prisoner transferred by the Canadian Forces, not one.

As far as getting a full and open public hearing goes, let us remind ourselves that this matter has been heard not once but twice at the Federal Court level. It has been examined by the Supreme Court, which declined to hear the case. It has been the subject of a Canadian Forces National Investigation Service review. It has been the subject of an RCMP review. A board of inquiry investigation was conducted. The Military Police Complaints Commission has had public hearings which are currently suspended at the call of the chair. This issue is also before a parliamentary committee.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, what does not add up is taking leaps of faith without substantiating evidence. That would not be acceptable anywhere.

What we have said repeatedly is we have in fact improved the situation in Afghanistan. We started investing two and a half years ago. We are not out to smear anyone.

This is very much about the examination of serious allegations. It is about putting to the test allegations with respect to torture. These are not things that we can take holus-bolus without evidence. We have taken serious steps to improve the conditions in Afghan prisons, and we will continue to take those steps.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, it is important to note that we acted immediately.

As soon as credible allegations came to our attention, we immediately began to invest in Afghan prisons, invest in training, and make substantial investments to ensure that the justice system was improved.

With respect to the pause in operations for transfers made on the ground in Afghanistan, that took place because we could no longer have unfettered, unannounced visits to Afghan prisons. When Afghans are not living up to their expectations, we pause transfers. When they started to allow that access again, the transfers then began again.

[Afghanistan, November 23rd, 2009]

Mr. Speaker, as the Leader of the Opposition would know, and as he has indicated, decisions to stop transfers are operational decisions taken on a case-by-case basis in a theatre of operations by military personnel.

In this instance, and this information is now on the government website, there were three operational decisions taken that resulted in pauses of transfer. I want to indicate that most recently, the reason the transfers were stopped was that the Afghan officials were not living up to their expectations, not living up to the expectations set out in the transfer arrangements.

The decision to stop was based on the fact that they were not living up to those expectations.