Peter MacKay

[Privacy Commissioner, May 11th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I direct my question to the Deputy Prime Minister. In light of the incredible announcement yesterday that the privacy commissioner has attempted to interfere in and to influence the information commissioner's court case regarding the Prime Minister's daily agenda, did the Prime Minister or any official in his office or the Privy Council Office make the request for the privacy commissioner to intervene in the information commissioner's case?

Or, is this another case of the Prime Minister calling someone he knows to get something he has done fixed? I ask the Deputy Prime Minister to reject the premise of that question.

[Iraq, May 10th, 2001]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to have an opportunity to speak to Motion No. 83 on behalf of my colleague from Cumberland—Colchester, the Conservative critic for foreign affairs who is on his own peace mission today in the Middle East accompanying the Minister of Foreign Affairs. He is pursuing a very noble peace cause in his own right.

Sanctions were imposed on the Iraqi nation after Iraq unilaterally invaded Kuwait in 1990. Canada played a leading role, even a decisive role, in ensuring that the response to Iraq's aggression occurred under the flag of the United Nations and not unilaterally. The response of our allies came about in a very reasoned and well thought out fashion.

The international community believed it was essential to impose sanctions as a means of keeping Iraq in check and to improve the lot of that nation by forcing the brutal and sadistic Saddam Hussein to stop his oppressions. The United Nations action including the sanctions forced Iraq out of Kuwait. The sanctions had a positive effect in that they curbed military and other aggressions that might very well have occurred.

The evidence suggests that the lot of the Iraqi people has not improved. The real issue is the suffering of human beings. The situation among Iraq's people is tragic. There is no denying that reality. Poverty, malnutrition and depleted social services such as health care are leaving their indelible marks. The situation is wretched and dismal.

UNICEF figures indicate that 4,500 children are dying every month from lack of food and decent health care. Thousands of people, and some sources are putting the number at over one million, have died since these sanctions were put in place. All this has occurred under the negligent and oppressive leadership or lack of leadership of Saddam Hussein.

United Nations resolution No. 96 that deals specifically with food in exchange for oil allows between $1.5 billion and $2 billion for food. This fund is administered by the United Nations and the food package consists mostly of carbohydrates for the malnourished. The program has made a difference but undeniably there is a long way to go to address other horrific conditions that exist for the people living in Iraq.

The United Nations sanctions committee can reject goods if it thinks something might be used for military purposes. This is cause for concern because it is a contentious and sometimes grey area. There is a military application for almost anything. Pipes for sewage could have scores of military uses. It is therefore sometimes difficult to draw the line.

The bottom line is that sanctions may be keeping Iraq in check but they are also severely afflicting scores of innocent people, mostly children, who do not deserve to be punished for something for which they are not responsible. There are severe implications for what is taking place. It begs the obvious question: Why should children be the scapegoats for a conflict between the international community and the pathological behaviour of Saddam Hussein?

Saddam Hussein's regime does the Iraqi people no favours in their struggle for survival and decent healthy living. Maintaining the people's basic needs is not the totalitarian regime's number one priority. Saddam Hussein's own standard of living has certainly not suffered like that of his people, as was pointed out by the hon. member for Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca.

The evidence suggests that Mr. Hussein's personal wealth has continued to escalate. He has continued to build palaces, an absolutely horrific situation given the poverty and squalor of his own people who he is supposedly representing. The regime is irreverent and defiant to the international community and to the pressures being brought to bear by countries like our own.

We need to determine the true impact of the sanctions and, more important, the fate of the children. We do not need to argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. This is not an academic exercise. We must look at the facts and figures and the costs in terms of human life, costs which are often difficult to determine.

Bearing in mind the situation the Iraqi people are facing, it is clearly time to revisit the state and the nature of the economic and military sanctions being imposed on Iraq. Is it possible to get good, sound reliable figures on how well the sanctions are working? It probably is not. However we should certainly be able to make a cost analysis of the toll they are taking.

Are the sanctions producing the desired result? Are they accomplishing goals or meeting ends? These are the questions the international community must ask persistently. It must ask the questions openly and honestly with a mind to determining whether sanctions should continue.

No one in this Chamber or in any legislature can single-handedly answer these questions. However, they must be addressed in a fair, open-minded and impartial way and they must be addressed soon. If not, it will be the demise of the innocent.

This is admittedly not an easy situation. It is difficult to dissect the issue and remove the variables that directly or indirectly hurt those innocent people. We cannot sterilize the issue or look at it in a detached way.

With economic sanctions, as with military sanctions, there are always innocent bystanders killed or left suffering. The trick is to distinguish between economic and military sanctions so that sanctions which primarily hurt civilians can be lifted. Any sanction, military or otherwise, can inflict collateral damage on a population. That is occurring in Iraq, and the worst effects must be identified and dealt with.

The motion says that the Canadian government should lead the efforts at the United Nations to lift the sanctions. Canada has an amazing amount of credibility, trust and respect on the world stage. We have an opportunity to intervene and get the ball rolling again. What better country to raise the issue in a serious fashion and to effect results than Canada?

We are the nation of Lester B. Pearson, peacekeepers and in the fight against apartheid, a nation with a progressive human rights record. The Conservative Party would certainly support Canada taking a leading role in opening this dialogue again. It is paramount that in the short term we find the facts, delve into our ability to effect change and be a part of the action, not just to talk about it but to actually try to bring pressures to bear on those who can immediately impact on this decision. The situation certainly needs to be addressed in the near future.

I am pleased to have had the opportunity to speak on this important motion. I thank the member for Burnaby—Douglas for bringing it to the attention of the House and to all Canadians. Although I am not the critic in this area, I will certainly maintain an interest in the issue of sanctions and in the overall outcome that we hope the United Nations, with Canada playing a leading role, will embark on in the near future.

[Proceeds Of Crime (Money Laundering) Act, May 10th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak to the bill. This is a very important piece of legislation and I commend the previous speakers, including my colleague from the New Democratic Party. It is interesting to note that many members have picked up on the fact that those in the other place have served a very useful purpose in reviewing the legislation and improving upon the legislation, as is often their wont.

I should indicate at the outset that I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Kings—Hants.

Bill S-16 essentially deals with a response to concerns that were raised by the Senate banking committee. Bill S-16 amends the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) Act and particularly focuses on areas of solicitor-client privilege, the disclosure of information and records retention. This is, of course, information that is critical in tracing the origins and whereabouts of potential assets linked to criminal activity. The money laundering that takes place in Canada is of great concern to our citizenry and certainly to our law enforcement community.

Money laundering, as the Speaker would know, is a process by which criminals attempt to conceal profits earned from crime so that the money appears as if it comes from legitimate sources. When all traces of the money's criminal origins are erased, the money can safely be used to buy goods and services.

It is shocking to think that between $5 billion and $17 billion is laundered in Canada. Of course it is difficult to accurately assess just how much because the proper authorities are not able to determine this amount, but it is estimated to be in that range.

There were shortcomings in the original legislation which Bill S-16 attempts to correct. Money that is laundered is often shifted among countries, financial institutions and investments without a paper trail so that it cannot be traced back to its origins. With the advancing sophistication of technology, competent and sophisticated criminals are able to access and utilize these now boundless abilities to transfer money through cyberspace, leaving no tangible evidence as to its origins.

Obviously much of this money is obtained by very nefarious means such as fraud or intimidation. This is the type of money that is very often directly linked to criminal organizations in Canada and has been the focus of a number of pieces of legislation and the focus of considerable debate in recent months and years. Canada has come under heavy criticism in recent years for being a nation where criminal organizations are able quite easily to launder their proceeds of crime. For that reason and that reason alone, it is incumbent upon us as elected officials and as part of the federal legislative branch to respond. That is what this legislation is intended to do, to enhance the existing proceeds of crime legislation.

The response last spring came in the form of government Bill C-22, the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) Act, which was passed. Bill C-22 imposed new reporting and record keeping requirements and created the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada to receive and analyze information so there would be a focal point, a centre in Canada where those working in this location would be specifically tasked to assist law enforcement communities in locating and tracing proceeds of crime.

Concerns were expressed at that time about the bill by the privacy commissioner, the Canadian Bar Association and other groups that appeared before a parliamentary committee. The Senate banking committee looked into the bill in June 2000 and, to be quite blunt, was not impressed. The committee felt that the legislation was considerably flawed and had a number of shortcomings which it had hoped to remedy. The government indicated at that time that it was unwilling to entertain amendments to the legislation because it was too late in June and the House of Commons had to deal with other bills and indicated that therefore the Senate might make changes in the future.

Coming forward from that point in June 2000, we know that the Secretary of State for International Financial Institutions did give a written undertaking to the committee that certain changes would be contemplated and would occur in a new bill to be introduced in the fall. Those changes formed the substance of Bill S-30 which was introduced in October. Bill S-30 is identical to Bill S-16 which is currently before us.

As the Speaker and Canadians well know, the entire process in October was pre-empted by the legacy lust of the Prime Minister in his decision to put this piece of legislation and other very useful pieces of legislation aside and toss them in the dustbin in order to seize his political advantage and call an election.

Beyond the changes that were agreed to in the letter from the secretary of state to the Senate banking committee, the bill was then reported with the observation that the government should consider other amendments. Those amendments would include, first, further insurance that solicitor-client privilege would be protected by adding the phrase law office in any place in clause 63 where the term dwelling house appears. This simply expanded the physical premises that would attach under the legislation.

Second, the government would hold the first review of the act after three years, not five years, with a five year review to be held after that. This is essentially an opportunity in the first instance to look at the fallout from this legislation at an earlier date and assess the implications after three years.

Finally, the government would require regulations under the act to be tabled before the committee in the House each year. The Progressive Conservative Party is very supportive of all attempts to bring about transparency, both for the public and for parliament, and to access information that is rightfully to be placed before Canadians.

This is important in the broader context of trying to rebuild lost confidence in the process and in this institution. It is clear that the bill does not include all the changes recommended by the committee, but it goes a long way to improving the legislation.

The bill will focus on the following legal issues. The first is solicitor-client privilege, which is an attempt by individuals to prevent private information they share with a solicitor from being made public or in any way disclosed. Bill C-22 only dealt with instances of solicitor-client privilege involving legal counsel.

Bill S-16 clarifies that officials of the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada may not examine or copy documents subject to solicitor-client privilege where the documents are, and this is the important part, in the hands of someone else until a reasonable opportunity has been made for the person to contact legal counsel. The bill would put in place a safeguard to allow an individual to speak to a lawyer before documents are seized.

This responds to concerns raised by the Certified General Accountants Association of Canada. Privacy is something we can never take lightly. We must always strive to ensure individuals are protected in their privacy rights and in their business transactions. However all that must be balanced with the recognition that there are those who rely upon nefarious means and complicated schemes to steal from others, rip people off and engage in blatant activities to take away a person's wealth.

To that end a balance is struck in the legislation. It contains safeguards and methods for review that allow for a weighing of evidence to determine whose interests are best being served.

Bill S-16 would allow individuals or the privacy commissioner to take the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada to court if they are denied access to their files. There is therefore a chance for judicial review if there is denial of access.

Next is disclosure of information. Bill S-16 narrows the range of information that may be disclosed by the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada to the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency, the police, and citizenship and immigration officials.

After listing the types of documents that could be disclosed Bill C-22 gave the centre broad power to disclose any information so designated. The amendment would replace that power with the power to disclose similar information relating to identification.

Finally, there is record retention. Records not disclosed by the centre are to be destroyed five years after they are received or collected. Those which have been disclosed are to be destroyed eight years after they are received or collected. These are further safeguards. It may be called fine tuning but it is important fine tuning nonetheless. The sober second thought of the Senate has been usefully exercised here.

[The Environment, May 10th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, it is a wonder he can get out of bed in the morning. The situation at the Sydney tar ponds is critical. Families there have been exposed to high levels of toxins resulting in shocking rates of cancer, birth defects and miscarriages. The health minister's position is about as murky and malodorous as the sludge in Sydney.

Elizabeth May continues her hunger strike outside and demonstrations continue in Nova Scotia protesting the lack of action.

Will the Minister of Health give his government's firm commitment to provide financial resources necessary to permanently relocate those afflicted residents of Whitney Pier, Nova Scotia?

[Supply, May 8th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, congratulations to my colleague and to all members who have taken part in the debate.

With respect to the question from the hon. member for Châteauguay's question, I say to my friend from Brandon—Souris that there is nothing which would in effect harm Quebec's standards to adopt and accept the motion that has been put forward. In fact it would very much embrace a situation that he has quite rightly pointed out. If Quebec has legislation pending, and I take him at his word, which would try to set a higher standard in the province of Quebec, that is perfectly in keeping with the notion of co-operative federalism. In fact, I will be the first to acknowledge that in the area of criminal justice with young offenders Quebec set a very high standard which other provinces can strive to match or exceed.

Does my hon. colleague from Brandon—Souris not see that the motion is consistent with Quebec's approach, that is to always strive to put water safety, in terms of Canadians' health first and we should be trying to match if not exceed Quebec's example?

[Supply, May 8th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I commend the hon. member on her thoughtful commentary. I know she has been a strong advocate and a strong voice on health issues for all Canadians.

My question to her is equally simple. Given the rash of severe cuts we have seen imposed by the government since 1993, taking billions of dollars out of provincial transfers, does she not agree there has been a cascading cost down to provinces and subsequently down to municipalities that to a large extent could be pointed to as part of the responsibility for failing infrastructure that has left Canadians vulnerable to the types of situations we have seen in Walkerton and North Battleford? Does she agree that there is a responsibility directly attributable to the federal government?

[Supply, May 8th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest to the remarks of my colleague from the NDP. He speaks of window dressing. I am curious as to whether he would agree that what we are seeing at least initially in this debate is an indication that the government will in fact vote in favour of the motion this evening in a very clever and Janus-like fashion, that it will support the motion and indicate in some detail it is already doing what the motion calls for.

The government just as erroneously and disingenuously did the same thing when it came to the sex offender registry, indicating that it was already taking steps. The government continuously denies and distracts and delays. These are very much the trademarks of the government.

On a specific note, and I know it is an issue my friend would be aware of, there is this fundamental issue of health that stems from clean air and clean water. There is a specific example, perhaps the most extreme example in the country today, and that is the ongoing titanic environmental disaster of the tar ponds in Sydney, Cape Breton. What was once a very pristine body of water in that community has now become a chemical pool from steel plant chemicals and treatments that have gone into that water supply. Just outside our Chamber there is a hunger strike taking place in regard to this by Elizabeth May. With Maude Barlow, she has written a book called Frederick Street: Life and Death on Canada's Love Canal .

In the context of this debate, I am wondering if there are specific recommendations. My friend touched upon the aspect of the money that is required, but is there not a need for leadership from the government and a need for a specific plan to address situations like the Sydney tar ponds where the health risks are phenomenal and are documented? The cancer rates and the rates of other serious illnesses are startling in comparison with other communities in Canada.

Though we have Walkerton and we now have North Battleford, this is a looming disaster for an entire community in Sydney, Cape Breton. Would my friend share with us any thoughts or advice he might have for the government in order to finally address this huge embarrassment and environmental disaster in Sydney, Cape Breton?

[Criminal Law Amendment Act, 2001, May 7th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to take part in this debate.

This is a very important debate. To pick up on the tone of my learned colleague from Winnipeg—Transcona, opposition and government members alike find themselves in the unfortunate situation of having to debate a bill of substance and importance that has been essentially cross-threaded and put together in a way that is unsettling and disquieting for many Canadians outside of parliament. The bill brings together a number of criminal code amendments that are inconsequential and do not connect in any rational way.

Bill C-15 touches upon issues of wrongful conviction, disarming a police officer, cruelty to animals, amendments to the Firearms Act and the National Defence Act, and home invasion. Some of the issues are straightforward and deal with changes or modernization within the criminal code. One such change would acknowledge the seriousness of trying to take away a police officer's weapon. Such changes to the act would allow the judiciary to respond in a more proportional way.

However the bill has controversial aspects as well, particularly as they relate to firearms legislation which a growing number of Canadians are finding cumbersome, unenforceable and intrusive.

Perhaps more graphic are concerns over the cruelty to animals provisions. However, because of the omnibus nature of the legislation, it is before us as a package. Hon. members opposite applaud that because they know it forces members of the opposition to vote for the entire package. Such members may support nine-tenths of the bill yet find in it something unacceptable to themselves, to their constituents or to the interests they represent.

We saw unanimous consent today for Bill S-4. The bill went through at record pace. We debated all stages and passed the legislation with the greatest spirit of co-operation. Bill C-15 is the antithesis of that. The government is force feeding the opposition and saying that while we may not like some of the bill we must take it all. The bill contains very good and needed legislation. However, it is like vanilla ice cream with a little motor oil poured on that the government is telling us to eat.

Short of dividing up the bill, taking out the offensive legislation and studying it separately, there is no way to allow opposition members the opportunity to deal with it when it comes to a vote. They can do nothing more than put comments on the record. At the end of the day the final verdict will be whether we support the legislation or not.

Let us delve into the substance of the bill. The brave new interconnected world is posing new and sadly innovative ways in which to transport information. That of course has implications for things like pornography. Purveyors of child pornography have in recent years taken advantage of the new technology. Internet sites and chat rooms are not generally controlled or monitored. That raises questions about the responsibility of owners and managers of computer networks, such as private Internet access providers and universities, for the content of the websites and chat rooms they offer their customers.

Courts in Canada and elsewhere have given little direction in this new area of technology. The Canadian Security Intelligence Service, CSIS, 2000 annual report states:

The distribution of child pornography is growing proportionately with the continuing expansion of Internet use. Chat rooms available throughout the Internet global community further facilitate and compound this problem. The use of the Internet has helped pornographers to present and promote their point of view.

This is a very disturbing trend. The legislation would at least attempt to control or police the Internet.

Bill C-15 deals with the issue in the following ways. It talks about the luring of a child via the Internet. Clause 14 of the bill adds the offence of luring. The clause states that every person commits an offence who, by means of a computer, communicates with persons in various age groups and does so for the purposes of facilitating the commission of the following offences: sexual touching, making of child pornography, procuring prostitution of a child under the age of 18, sexual assault, sexual assault with a weapon or threats, and aggravated assault. These of course are some of the more serious and damaging offences that can be committed under the criminal code. Any means, therefore, by which those offences can be perpetrated should be governed by criminal legislation. The bill would do that.

It is not a defence, I might add, for the accused to say they believed the child was over a certain age, whether 18, 16 or 14, unless reasonable steps can be demonstrated to ascertain the age of the child. This is a responsible interpretation and expansion of the criminal law and it would certainly stabilize efforts to police the Internet.

Further to that point, sub-section 11(2) of Bill C-15 adds a new offence. Under the bill, the making, distribution and sale of child pornography would also be criminal code offences when committed via the Internet. This is in keeping with supreme court decisions, the Queen v Sharpe being the most recent case in which the judges had an opportunity to deliberate on the subject. The sentence for this type of offence would lead to a person being liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or an offence punishable on summary conviction. The Conservative Party is in favour of this type of policing.

This new provision would not criminalize the inadvertent viewing of child pornography on the Internet. The accused must have had knowledge of the presence of child pornography on the site or the specific intention to use it. However, the bill would perhaps open the door for the justice department to further expand on the ways it can prevent and hopefully deter pornography on the Internet. Bill C-15 gives a rather vague commitment to do so in the future and any type of sexual exploitation is something that we must condemn in the strongest possible terms. The Liberal government could have passed measures in advance of the supreme court ruling in Sharpe. One of the minister's favourite phrases “In a timely fashion,” is code for “When we get around to it”.

Recent examples are the Youth Criminal Justice Act which has taken seven years to reach fruition. It is now of being jammed through without proper consultation on some of the changes it would bring in.

In the last general election, the Conservative Party was the only party to propose a national strategy to combat child pornography. Our proposal would have included Internet safety education for children, the training of police in the tracking of pornography and the revamping of current laws to ensure we were not facilitating high tech prostitution. We would suggest, in a constructive way, that this is another area the government and the Minister of Justice look at exploring.

Concern has been expressed by Internet service providers and the high tech industry generally that subclause 163.1(3) would subject Internet servers to criminal liability for third party content unless they could prove they did not have actual or constructive knowledge of the existence of the material. We will perhaps have an opportunity to delve into those issues at the committee level when we hear from those affected by the legislation. We look forward to getting their perspectives in the hope of amending or tightening up the provisions.

It is certainly a positive step, as I indicated. We must ensure that child pornography is not stored on or made available through Canadian computer systems without being subject to the criminal code.

Possible amendments to the section would require that Internet service providers, in particular large providers, such as AOL, be able to police sites and access information. This would come at great expense but steps have already been taken to do just that. Service providers hire staff to take complaints from their users. They also monitor Internet chat rooms and supply information to the proper authorities if they have reason to believe these nefarious activities are taking place.

Other aspects of the bill that have been touched upon are the provisions that affect paintball operators. That is the extreme sport, as it is sometimes called, with respect to the use of paintballs. The limit of velocity at which paintballs can leave the guns is, I understand, 5.7 joules. I suspect the minister's intention was to ban certain types of pellet guns but the limit also affects paintball users and operators. There is concern that the technical description of the velocity limit may need to be amended with respect to paintballs.

It is my understanding, from talking to people who manage those activities, that they are already taking steps to adhere to safety standards. The bill as it is drafted would have serious implications for those types of businesses with respect to the pointing of a firearm. If the description of the velocity is not amended it may make it a criminal offence to participate in such activities.

Home invasion and criminal harassment are other areas of the bill that we support unequivocally. Under clause 23 of the bill the courts must consider break and enter, robbery and extortion as aggressive and aggravating circumstances. They must consider whether a dwelling house was occupied at the time of the offence.

I realize we must start question period so I will continue my remarks at the conclusion of question period.

[Federal Law—Civil Law Harmonization Act, No. 1, May 7th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, given that there is so much love and harmony in the air, I would put on record as well that obviously a bill of such a cumbersome and technical nature did require a great deal of work within the Department of Justice and by others who put a Herculean effort forward to bring the bill to this point. We in the Progressive Conservative Party commend those efforts and look forward to working with the department further in other attempts to harmonize legislation in the country.

(Motion agreed to, bill read the third time and passed)

[Federal Law—Civil Law Harmonization Act, No. 1, May 7th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I want to put some comments on record with respect to Bill S-4. I will indicate at the outset that the Conservative Party is similarly disposed. We want to see the legislation pass quickly through the House and take effect. We recognize its importance and recognize the entire principle behind the bill.

As the title suggests, the bill is to harmonize federal law and civil law in the province of Quebec and to amend a number of acts in order to ensure that each language version will take into account common law and civil law principles.

The bill respects the traditions of both common law and civil law in Canada, as has been stated. It is also interesting to note that it originates in the other place.

Senator Beaudoin and Senator Andreychuk, both very learned counsel in their own right, have spoken in favour of the legislation, as have other senators including Senators Murray and Nolin. They have made very valuable contributions to the bill.

Canada is a country with two legal systems, public law and private law, better known as the civil and common law. Canada also has provincial jurisdiction set out under subsection 92(13) of the Constitution Act, 1867, which legitimizes most of what is considered property and civil law.

In Quebec these notions are traditionally included in the civil code of Quebec, which concerns itself with the following: successions, the management of immovable property, hypothetic securities and property laws, consumer protection, civil incapacity and tudorship, celebration of marriage, the obligations and contracts of civil liability, and the regulation of professions and occupations under Quebec's exclusive jurisdiction.

In other provinces the corresponding matters defined under the common law are also under provincial jurisdiction. The main role of civil law in this sense is to supplement federal legislation for the following reasons.

Since 1867 the Parliament of Canada has enacted more than 300 statutes. Some or all these provisions are designed to regulate matters of private law. It has done so primarily under parliament's exclusive jurisdiction over matters that had it not been for the division of powers established in sections 91, 92 and 93 of the Constitution Act, 1867, would have fallen under the province's jurisdiction.

The federal government has also done this indirectly by enacting statutes designed primarily to regulate questions of public law with some provisions relying upon private law concepts.

The field of private law thus is not solely a provincial jurisdiction. The federal government has exclusive authority in a number of areas under the private law which include banking, monetary transactions, interest on money, bankruptcy and insolvency, maritime law, patents, copyright, marriage and divorce.

Although the federal government takes away from or adds provisions to the civil law of each province, it does not mean all these statutes constitute a separate legal system. For example, the civil code of Quebec also supplements the federal statutes while assisting in their interpretation and application. It can therefore be said that there is a complementary relationship between the federal legislation and the civil law practices of the provinces.

The Progressive Conservative Party supports the principles underlying Bill S-4 on harmonization between federal law and the civil law in Quebec. The goal in this bill is to make sure federal law provisions are harmonized with those in the civil law.

The lack of harmony has been more crucial since the enactment of the new civil code in Quebec in January 1994. Bill S-4 reflects the need to have a smooth interaction between the federal and provincial legislation. Harmonization of federal law and the Quebec civil code will help reduce interpretation problems caused by the use of different terminology in federal and provincial legislation.

The need to harmonize therefore is clear. In 1994, after more than 50 years of talks and plans for reform, Quebec replaced the civil code of lower Canada, which had come into force in 1866, with the civil code of Quebec.

Since that time extremely important and existing federal statutes have had to be harmonized to be made consistent with current civil law. The changes in vocabulary and substance made to the civil code were not without effect on federal laws. The resulting change in vocabulary and language of federal statutes is no longer exactly that which occurred in civil law.

That language had to be modernized. It was a language of that period. Regardless of language there is often the need to modernize, particularly with technical aspects of a bill such as this one. Substantive changes, changes in traditional institutions and the formalization of new concepts and reform of existing rules are also taken into consideration.

Problems can exist through the survival of a number of provisions from the civil code of lower Canada which Quebec had not been able to repeal because they had related to matters since that time in 1867 and have been within the jurisdiction of parliament. The federal government has now looked at these since the new civil code came into force. They are thus isolated from the body by which they once were formed and in their relation with the civil code of Quebec may have become and have become to some extent controversial.

According to a number of experts the civil code reform is not the only reason for the law to be harmonized with federal laws and with private law. The federal government still has not managed to take into account Quebec's civil language and law in the wording of private law provisions that were enacted.

Since 1993 the federal Department of Justice has reviewed more than 700 statutes to determine which ones would be most affected by the amendments, substance and form planned in the new civil code. Based on that analysis it identified 300 laws that would have to be harmonized.

In June 1998 the federal government under the leadership of the Minister of Justice considered that it would be able to do so by tabling one bill a year over the following nine years.

According to the Department of Justice this harmonization would ensure that federal laws which are implemented under private law include Quebec civil law terminology, notions and institutions. It would also enhance the effectiveness of the courts by making parliament's intention clearer and by reducing the problems involved in interpreting federal laws when they are applied in Quebec.

Finally it would facilitate access to justice for all Quebecers. The details are often very critical to this process. The preamble of Bill S-4 recognizes in particular that Quebec's civil law tradition which finds its principal expression in the civil code of Quebec reflects the unique character of Quebec society.

This has been somewhat controversial. I refer to some comments on the record in the other place which touched upon that subject matter. There was a reference to the highest court of the land in terms of its use and expression of the terms Quebec society and distinct society.

In 1996 the late Brian Dickson, former chief justice of the Supreme Court of Canada, took a stand on the concept of Quebec's distinct character. At a conference organized by the Military and Hospitaller Order of St. Lazarus of Jerusalem, Grand Priory of Canada, which took place in Winnipeg, he stated the following:

I should say right from the start that I am very comfortable with this concept

He was speaking in this instance of Quebec society. He continued:

The courts are already interpreting the Charter and the Constitution with an eye to the distinctive role of Quebec in protecting and promoting its French-speaking character. In practice, therefore, enshrining formal recognition of the distinct character of Quebec in the Constitution would not be a great departure from what our courts are already doing.

To put this on the record, in 1997 the second red book of the Liberal Party of Canada said that a Liberal government would work toward the constitutional recognition of the distinctness of Quebec society which includes the French speaking majority, a unique culture and a tradition of civil law.

There should be no hesitation on the part of the Liberal government to wrap its arms around this initiative. It provides all Canadians who are certainly entitled to access to federal legislation with the common law and civil law traditions. It harmonizes the interaction of federal and provincial legislation in that it is essential and lies in the interpretation of both these common and civil law traditions.

The bill will receive smooth passage, certainly through this place. I would deem that it has received a significant review and attempts by the senators to improve and put before us a very sound piece of legislation. There was talk of amendments with respect to the harmonization of other statutes in the future. According to the federal Department of Justice, tax law, regulatory law and commercial law were identified as other key areas in which harmonization would be the subject of new bills in coming years.

It is also important to note that many organizations including the Barreau du Québec, la Chambre des notaires du Québec, le ministère de la Justice au Québec and a number of other law professors have assisted significantly in the drafting of the legislation.

Therefore, as a party that has a long tradition in the province of Quebec we are pleased to be supporting this legislative initiative. We support the minister in her efforts to bring forward other important bills. We look forward to having an opportunity to participate in those debates as well.