Pierre-Luc Dusseault

[Business of Supply, October 23rd, 2017]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question. This could not come at a better time to expose the government's hypocrisy on this whole tax fiasco that they are creating.

The latest in this tax fiasco is the attack on diabetics, who no longer have access to a disability tax credit. At the same time, the Prime Minister and his Minister of Finance claim to want more tax fairness, yet these two politicians own numbered companies.

I have nothing against numbered companies. Optometrists in their ridings, like the one the member referred to, have legitimate businesses with names. They do not simply have numbers. I think this exposes the Liberals' total hypocrisy on this subject. They are talking about tax fairness, yet they are going after optometrists, in their very own ridings. Not to mention, they are benefiting from the tax system with their numbered companies.

The Prime Minister had a reason when he said during the campaign that the majority of SMEs were simply used to pay less tax. This was his own experience. While he travels across the country, he must realize that having a numbered company to pay less tax simply reflects his own situation.

[Business of Supply, October 23rd, 2017]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for sharing his precious speaking time with me, allowing me to address the House concerning the motion before us today that we have been debating since this morning.

We have heard opinions from both sides of the House, but the Liberals have yet to say anything impressive in defence of the Minister of Finance. Rather, they have tried to change the channel. They have tried to take the focus off the problem at hand. For my part, for the 10 minutes allotted to me, I will stick to the motion before us.

The first part of this motion sets out the facts regarding the matter at hand, namely, the situation with the finance minister and his company, Morneau Shepell. The minister led us to believe that he had placed his shares in Morneau Shepell in a blind trust when in fact he had never done so. His story was even corroborated by his Liberal caucus colleagues. The minister had many opportunities to clarify this situation. Everyone believed that he had placed his holdings in a blind trust. The media reported that such was the case, and the minister even allowed his own company to believe that that is what he had done. When the truth came out, everyone saw that he had not in fact put his holdings in a blind trust. The minister had never bothered to set the record straight since being sworn in two years ago. Everyone believed that he was telling the truth about his holdings. The first part of the motion points out the discrepancy, which the Minister of Finance never bothered to clarify.

The second part of the motion deals with the fact that the minister used a loophole in the Conflict of Interest Act. I can confirm that there is indeed a loophole, not because I used it like the finance minister, but because I heard witnesses talking about it when they appeared before the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, which I chaired for two years.

The Ethics Commissioner appeared before the committee to present her recommendations following her five-year review of the Conflict of Interest Act. That happened in 2013. The next review will take place in 2018 and will be a good opportunity to close the loophole that we are talking about today.

In 2013, the commissioner made over 70 recommendations to update the Conflict of Interest Act. Those recommendations apply to ministers and public office holders. They do not apply only to ministers, but also to some senior officials in the Canadian public service. These public office holders must obey this law. In 2013, the commissioner pointed out a number of problems with the act and proposed ways of making it more effective and updating it to reflect changes in technology.

In her report, she clearly states that the wording of the act specifies direct control, saying that a minister cannot have direct control over a company’s shares. She says that, according to the language, a minister could have indirect control. She raised this question as if she were a visionary who could see that infringements of the act might occur. A public office holder may decide to comply only with the letter of the law, that is, to avoid exercising direct control over a company’s shares, without complying with the spirit of the law.

I can just see the Minister of Finance and his army of lawyers and accountants going to the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner and asking a lot of questions, and being told that he cannot exercise direct control over shares, but that he can exercise indirect control over them.

His advisors and lawyers tell him that the only thing to do is to register a company without bothering to give it a name. He can just give it a number, then register it in Alberta where corporate income tax rates are lowest. He can register all of Morneau Shepell’s shares in his company. Thus, he will be the sole shareholder of a numbered company in Alberta.

His lawyers are very smart, and we must give them credit, because their job was to find loopholes in the act, and that is what they are paid for. They did what the minister asked. He asked them to find a way of allowing him to control his shares while complying with the letter of the law.

They told him that they found the solution, that all he had to do was register a company. That is what he did and, for two years, he has had us believe that his situation was in order and that he had even placed his assets in a blind trust. Of course, the blind trust would respect both the letter and the spirit of the law, although this raises questions in any case, because, at the end of his term, the minister can always put the assets back in his name.

There are some misgivings about blind trusts, but that would have at least complied with the spirit of the law. However, the minister decided to do something else, and that is why he is being asked today to apologize to the House. He put himself in a conflict of interest or in a situation strongly suggesting a conflict of interest.

If any ethics professors are looking for the perfect example of a situation that suggests a conflict of interest, I think this situation with the Minister of Finance is ideal.

The minister is still in control of his shares in a large Canadian company, Morneau Shepell. This company sometimes deals directly with the Government of Canada. In general, it specializes in pension administration.

The company's value even increased when the Minister of Finance, who still had control over his holdings, introduced a bill that was good for his company. We are not the ones who came up with the idea that Bill C-27 would benefit his company. He said so himself in 2013 that a bill like this could benefit his company and would be the ideal thing for the company's growth and positioning. He said that in 2013 when he was still part of the family business. We did not come up with the idea that he profited from this. We can simply look at the numbers and see that this was indeed the case. The market responded favourably when the bill was introduced even though it had not yet been passed.

As soon as the bill was introduced the markets responded favourably because investors felt that there was a potential for growth for Morneau Shepell.

The minister personally profited from the increased value in his company when he introduced the bill. Imagine what things would look like if the bill had passed.

The bill is still on the order paper, but it has not yet been passed. However, we can just imagine how much this company would profit from the bill passing.

Who benefits in the end?

The Minister of Finance does.

However, he finally gave in to the evidence and acknowledged his mistakes by changing his financial situation with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner as a result of public pressure. He did not seem thrilled to do so. He had probably worked out some elaborate strategy to maintain control, but under pressure, the minister finally decided to change his situation.

He did so because he saw that he had no other choice.

I mused earlier about the minister and his lawyers before the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, and I can also imagine another scenario, one where the Prime Minister called him and told him to sort this out or find another job.

I would say he did not have much choice. To suggest today that he did so willingly and because he wants to serve Canadians would be to take us for fools. I hope he apologizes so that we can turn the page on this once and for all.

[Business of Supply, October 23rd, 2017]

Mr. Speaker, I usually thank my colleagues for their contributions, but it is somewhat difficult to do so when it comes to this colleague in particular.

I would like to ask my colleague a simple question about what is written in the motion. It is about acknowledging that the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner uncovered an obvious loophole in 2013. She was talking about the fact that the law specifies “direct control,” which can be interpreted to mean that indirect control is acceptable. She pointed out that this was contradictory to the spirit of the law, and that indirect control is as objectionable as direct control.

Can my colleague address this part of the motion and give his opinion concerning the loophole that the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner was talking about? My colleague keeps saying that we need to trust the commissioner. This is the opportunity he has been waiting for to show his trust in the commissioner and accept her recommendation. Will he do so?

[Public Services and Procurement, October 23rd, 2017]

Mr. Speaker, issues with the Phoenix pay system continue to plague thousands of employees, and their families as well.

In Sherbrooke, a brother and sister, both students, have been suffering the consequences of Phoenix every day since the death of their father, a former federal public servant. For the past year and a half, Mr. Fortin's children and their notary have been struggling with Phoenix issues that prevent them from settling the estate and dealing with their loss. It is completely unacceptable and inhuman for this kind of thing to happen to families because of the federal government's incompetence.

How much longer will Mr. Fortin's children have to wait before they can settle their father's estate and finally find closure? I appeal to the minister's compassion.

[Business of Supply, October 23rd, 2017]

): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his contribution to this debate, which is as important as it is timely given everything that is going on with the Minister of Finance.

Does my colleague have anything to say about this easily closed loophole that is now being called the Morneau-Shepell loophole? The motion before us today proposes to close that very loophole. What does he think about that?

I know that his government was in power when the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner recommended closing the loophole. I was wondering if he had any information for us about why it was not done before. Given his experience in politics and the many ministers he has seen come and go in the House even before he was elected, since I know he was a journalist before he became a member, has he ever seen similar situations and, if so, how did they turn out?

Earlier, my NDP colleague said that some ministers in similar situations had resigned, so now I would like his views on what he has seen happen in the past.

[Business of Supply, October 23rd, 2017]

Madam Speaker, it is disappointing to hear my colleague list the actions of his government when the motion before us is very clear. I get the impression that he did not read it.

I will nonetheless ask my colleague a question about the motion in order to maybe finally have some information about it. My question is about the fact that several of his colleagues have mentioned that they were misled by the minister. One of his colleagues from the Toronto area stated that he was sure that the minister had placed his assets in a blind trust just the day before we learned that, in fact, that was not true.

So I wonder if my colleague himself was deceived by the Minister of Finance. What was his understanding of the issue before learning that the finance minister had not placed his assets in a blind trust? When did my colleague learn that he had been deceived by the finance minister?

Maybe he could shed a bit of light on how his caucus learned that the minister had placed his assets in a blind trust, which everyone thought had already been done long ago.

[Department of Public Works and Government Services Act, October 23rd, 2017]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House this morning to speak to Bill C-344 at second reading. The House has already debated an identical bill introduced by another member who has other duties now and can no longer sponsor this bill.

I will not repeat everything that has been said on the subject in the past. I just want to say that Bill C-344, which would essentially give Public Works and Government Services some direction with respect to its building construction and repair contracts, is a good one. This initiative would give the advantage to businesses that have shown they can make a contribution locally or, as the bill puts it, provide community benefit.

This is an important and promising initiative. This issue has been coming up more and more in discussions and in lobby groups' proposals to the government. We want our procurement policies to be more progressive and more respectful of the environment and all communities. We want to make things easier for people for whom the job market may seem out of reach, who are at a disadvantage, or who are limited in their ability to participate in government procurement. We need to make our procurement policies more progressive and friendlier to more businesses and individuals. We have to leverage the power our government wields in terms of procurement policies because there are so many contracts. The federal government is not the only player. Provincial and municipal governments award contracts too. Together, these three levels of government inject a lot of money into the economy.

When we avail ourselves of procurement policies that are progressive and give more people access to these projects so they can take advantage of them and make a positive impact in their communities, in my opinion, that can only be a good thing. That is why we should support Bill C-344. That way, it can go to committee, where we can take a detailed look at its terminology. We will also be able to look at how to reach the goals we set. When studying legislation, the devil is always in the details.

There are a lot of questions about the terms used in Bill C-344. What we want in the NDP is to find a way to maximize community benefits. We are looking for a way to increase the bill's benefits, especially for those who, as I said earlier, might feel the job market is out of reach, and who might use government policies as a way to reintegrate the workforce.

It is certainly an admirable goal. For instance, with respect to the requirements around community benefits, this could be good for indigenous employment, in communities where that makes sense. This could also mean awarding procurement contracts to local businesses, when there is a construction project and the Government of Canada wants to build a new building in Sherbrooke, for example. In my region, we are pretty well served when it comes to Government of Canada buildings, but some maintenance and occasional repairs are needed in some of those buildings. If the Government of Canada plans to build new buildings, which does not happen quite so much anymore, the department responsible for government buildings should definitely encourage community benefits. Instead of hiring a huge maintenance company that would not be able to take care of every building in the country, why not hire local companies to do the job? This could be done on a case-by-case basis in each municipality or community that has government offices or buildings. This would support local suppliers.

The NDP has long been defending the idea of buying locally, especially when it comes to food for penitentiaries and government buildings, places that have cafeterias that serve hundreds of meals a day. This is another positive and compelling example of how the food supply to those buildings can benefit the local economy. This can be very positive, and the government is in a position to do even more.

Just two weeks ago at the Standing Committee on Finance, a group from Oxfam told us that our procurement policies should ensure that employees get a decent salary. That is what they were proposing. It is not necessarily what I am proposing today, but I think it makes sense. If a company wants to do business with the Government of Canada, then it has to at least pay its employees a decent wage, one that allows full-time employees to support themselves.

The government is increasingly getting this type of suggestion about its procurement policies. It is about creating benefits for the community and allowing it to flourish. There are other suggestions around construction materials, such as buying wood from communities where forestry is important or steel where that resource is more important. We must ensure that government projects benefit the greatest amount of people.

There is also an environmental aspect to this bill. The environment is an important consideration when it comes to government procurement. My colleague from Longueuil—Saint-Hubert often talks about electric cars and the federal government's fleet. I think that all Canadians would be surprised to learn how many vehicles the federal government owns and has to service on a daily basis. A progressive procurement policy would allow the government to integrate electric cars into its fleet within a reasonable period of time. This would help fight climate change. Such a policy could make a big difference, given how many vehicles are in the fleet. It would also help the government to meet or at least come closer to meeting its greenhouse gas reduction targets.

We could also talk about insulation for government buildings and their heating and cooling systems. Earlier, I mentioned a group that appeared before the Standing Committee on Finance during prebudget consultations and what they said, but there was also another group that felt it would be a good idea to better insulate the heating and cooling ducts. It just takes a quick look to see that government buildings are not properly insulated. By making some inexpensive repairs, the government could improve its heating and cooling systems and cut energy losses.

There are many other examples of community benefits. We must encourage the government to go in that direction. Perhaps in committee, when we know more, we could even look at how to make this policy more binding on the government. For now, it is just empty words.

Business owners are asked to provide information and reports get written but things never go any further than that. We will see if more comes out of this.

[Governor General’s Awards in Commemoration of the Persons Case, October 19th, 2017]

Mr. Speaker, 90 years ago, five Canadian women won a hard-fought battle for something we now take for granted: recognition that women are persons.

This morning, I had the honour of attending the presentation of the Governor General’s Awards in Commemoration of the Persons Case. This year, a woman from Sherbrooke was one of the honourees. Her name is Micheline Dumont, and she is professor emeritus in the Université de Sherbrooke's history department. Ms. Dumont has authored and co-authored 18 books and essays, including L'histoire des femmes au Québec depuis quatre siècles and Le féminisme québécois raconté à Camille.

I would like to personally congratulate Ms. Dumont and thank her for dedicating her life to bringing women and their contributions out of the shadows and into the light. Conventional historical narratives have not given their role in our society the attention it deserves. We need more women as engaged and determined as Ms. Dumont if we want to build a truly egalitarian society.

In closing, I would like to share with the House something Ms. Dumont said this morning, words that aptly summarize what her life's work has taught us: women are part of history, women have a history, and women make history.

[Business of Supply, October 17th, 2017]

Madam Speaker, I do not believe it is unparliamentary language. Honestly, I am not an expert in linguistics, but I believe that if we were unable to use the expression “being unscrupulous” we would have a problem.

I was saying that it is the Minister of Finance who is undermining people's confidence with his lack of transparency. He is trying to avoid answering questions, he is trying to avoid clarifying his situation, and he sometimes says one thing and then the opposite in the same sentence. The Prime Minister is not any clearer in his answers about his real interests.

People have confidence in the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, but they are not confident that the Minister of Finance will give real answers to her questions.

[Business of Supply, October 17th, 2017]

Madam Speaker, at the beginning of my speech, I said that I have full confidence in the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner. We do not lack confidence in the commissioner but in the Minister of Finance, who is hiding the information and, being unscrupulous, has not declared all his interests. He says one thing and in the end—