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Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word is liberal.

Conservative MP for Battle River—Crowfoot (Alberta)

Won his last election, a byelection in 2025, with 80% of the vote.

Statements in the House

The Budget April 4th, 2019

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise again and continue my remarks on the cover-up budget 2019. When I stood at the outset of this debate on Monday, I said that I would be delighted to cede the floor at any time if only a member of the government, speaking with the authority of the Prime Minister, would enter this chamber and say definitively that the government was prepared to have a full ethics committee investigation into the SNC-Lavalin corruption scandal and subsequent cover-up.

I said that the investigation would have to include sworn testimony from all of those alleged to have interfered with former attorney general's role in the matter of SNC-Lavalin. I told the House that I would cede the floor immediately upon receiving such a binding offer and that Conservative members would accept it and an investigation would go ahead.

Allow me to provide some background to the House as to why I made that original offer. Members will recall the origins of this scandal happened in the budget of 2018, when the finance minister presented an omnibus bill to implement his budget measures and buried within it was an amendment to the Criminal Code creating a new mechanism to offer deals to accused corporate criminals that would allow them to avoid criminal prosecution for such serious offences as bribery, fraud and corruption.

At the time, members of the finance committee were astonished to find such a measure contained in a budget bill. It is extremely unusual for budget legislation to amend the Criminal Code. In fact, it may even be unprecedented.

The Liberal member for Hull—Aylmer said that he did not think it was right. The chairman of the committee, an ardent, partisan and committed Liberal, said that the measure did not belong in a budget bill. The Liberal member for Hull—Aylmer made further comment based on his reading of the Criminal Code amendment that the finance minister had put in the budget bill. He said, “if I steal $10, I'm in trouble, but if I steal $10 million, I can work this out.”

What struck us in that moment was this question. Who was asking for this? I remember looking over at the member from the Okanagan, a Conservative who has been listening carefully today. He raised the concern that this should not be included in a budget bill. He believed it should be separate legislation that carefully studied the widely known consequences before it became law.

However, the government was determined to push ahead, with as little scrutiny as humanly possible. We all went home late that night with the mystery of who was driving this agenda.

When we go out to our communities, all of us talk to people about their concerns. We hear people say that they are worried about the cost of living, or health care wait times for their families and or safety in their streets. No matter the topic, we hear about it.

However, none of us heard that there was a need to amend the Criminal Code so that corporate criminals could get let off without conviction. That has never come up at any of the events I have attended, the hundreds if not thousands of them, since I was elected almost a decade and a half ago.

Somebody had to be driving this agenda, somebody powerful and influential enough to convince both the Prime Minister and the finance minister that such a Criminal Code amendment was needed.

A nagging part of me wondered whether the former attorney general did not like this Criminal Code amendment, as she would have normally been the person to introduce it. At the time, she was also the justice minister. While she was bound by cabinet solidarity and was thereby required to publicly support initiatives that the cabinet had decided upon, it was extremely unusual for her not to be the sponsoring minister for legislation changing the Criminal Code, a statute for which the justice minister has the carriage.

However, the bill passed and it became law. It would not be until February of this year that we would find out who was driving the train on the bill. An explosive headline on the front page, above the fold, in The Global and Mail, said that the Prime Minister and his team had pressured the former attorney general, by then moved out of her position, to grant SNC-Lavalin a settlement to avoid criminal prosecution.

Then it all made sense. The late-night session, the massive, 500-page bill, the tiny Criminal Code amendment tucked away at the very end, rushed through with no time to discuss. We now knew where it all came from. SNC-Lavalin, a powerful, Liberal-linked corporation had given over $100,000 in illegal donations to the Liberal Party, funnelled through the production of false invoices, phoney bonuses and deceptive receipts through employees into the Liberal Party coffers. That same SNC-Lavalin had successfully convinced the government to change the law allowing for a settlement so that companies accused of serious white-collar crime could evade prosecution altogether.

There is a problem with the plan though. It started with a very accomplished director of public prosecutions. The bill requires that the top prosecutor agree that a company is entitled to that special deal in order for it to go ahead. She read the act, even as the Liberals had written it when they introduced it, and concluded that the company was not eligible. It did not qualify. Why? Because the crimes were too serious, because it did not report its own crimes, because the participants were at the highest level of the executive management of the company and because the company had done absolutely nothing to compensate the victims of the alleged $130 million of theft.

These victims are among the poorest people in the world. The company is alleged to have stolen their money. It is a pretty miserable way to make a living, stealing from they poor. Fortunately, it is also an illegal way to make a living, at least we thought so. However, the Prime Minister attempted to apply political pressure, The Globe and Mail reported, to let this company off without prosecution despite that fact.

What happened? The Prime Minister denied it all. He said that the story was false, full stop, end of story. Therefore, Bob Fife and Steve Chase, the reporters who wrote it, got it all wrong and must have made it all up. That was the Prime Minister's story, and on we were to move. However, it turned out it was not false.

The Prime Minister would go out days later and say that the proof that the story was false was the continued presence of the former attorney general in his cabinet, then as veterans affairs minister. He said that her presence spoke for itself. Well, she could not stomach that anymore, so she resigned, and her resignation spoke for itself.

The Prime Minister then began to make up a new story that, yes, he had pressured the former attorney general but that it was okay. There was nothing wrong with a little pressure.

However, because of relentless public pressure, the Prime Minister was forced to allow the former attorney general to testify before the justice committee where she laid out a spectacular chronology of political interference at the highest level, including the personal interference of the Prime Minister himself. He denied, denied, denied.

Then the evidence arrived, demonstrating that in fact he and his top members had participated in pressuring and interfering with the former attorney general. She provided text messages, written journal entries and finally an audio recording in order to demonstrate that everything she had said was true. Therefore, the Prime Minister's story had to change again. He went out into the world and said that the former attorney general, according to the Prime Minister's minions, was just angry because she lost her dream job.

That is supposedly the reason why she not want to continue working with the Prime Minister, the reason why she made all of this up, and the only reason why she came forward about the political interference in the system. She was angry about having lost her dream job.

Supposedly it was bitterness, not principles or facts, that motivated her to come forward about the Prime Minister's political interference.

We heard the Liberals' personal attacks. For example, former deputy prime minister Sheila Copps talked about the former attorney general's indigenous roots. Others accused her of being a difficult woman. Yes, she was difficult. We are happy that she was difficult. When a prime minister tries to interfere with the justice system, I hope that the attorney general would be difficult. It is a good idea to be difficult when a prime minister is trying to corrupt the justice system.

The Prime Minister therefore had to change his story again. He rose to say that this was about jobs. He interfered in the justice system but it was to save jobs and the company's headquarters. It was easy enough to learn via the Internet that the company had no plans to move its headquarters. In fact, the company has an agreement with the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, the major pension fund, that requires the company to keep its headquarters in Montreal for another six years in exchange for a $1.5-billion loan. It is therefore impossible for the company to move its headquarters, contrary to what the Prime Minister and his team claimed.

Furthermore, the company had just signed a 20-year lease for its building in Montreal. Companies do not sign 20-year leases if they are thinking of moving. The company had just announced plans to renovate to accommodate its employees. It would not have taken on that kind of expense if it were planning to move. That means suggesting the head office was going to be moved was a lie. The Prime Minister also said that 9,000 jobs would have disappeared if he had not interfered in the justice system.

His best friend and former principal secretary said that the Prime Minister was very emotional and that he felt he had to interfere in the system to save those 9,000 jobs. The Green Party leader asked Gerald Butts if he had any proof at all that 9,000 jobs would disappear if the trial went ahead. He said he had no specific proof. All that interference took place over a period of four months. There was a campaign that included at least 20 attempts to make contact to save those 9,000 jobs, yet the Prime Minister's principal secretary and best friend said he had no specific proof those 9,000 jobs were at risk. The Clerk of the Privy Council was asked if he had any reports showing that 9,000 jobs were going to disappear. The answer was no. At a press conference, the Prime Minister was asked if he had any proof that 9,000 jobs would disappear if the trial went ahead. The answer was no.

The company's CEO stated that he never threatened to move the headquarters or to eliminate 9,000 jobs. In any case, this never made sense. Construction projects must go ahead in their respective locations. For example, SNC-Lavalin was awarded a rail project here in Ottawa. You cannot build 14 kilometres of rail in China or London and then have a helicopter drop it in place in Canada's capital. It was therefore impossible that these jobs would be moved. SNC-Lavalin has $52 billion in construction projects in Canada and they have to be carried out here.

Thus, for contractual and practical reasons, these jobs cannot be moved. This lie was repeated over and over by the most senior members of the Prime Minister's Office. It is one thing to interfere in the judicial system to prevent a case from going to trial, but it is even more serious to lie about it. In my view, lying to an attorney general in order to prevent a criminal trial is a Criminal Code violation. Section 139 clearly states that anyone who attempts to obstruct or defeat the course of justice is guilty of an indictable offence. Today, the Prime Minister no longer talks about jobs because this excuse has been discredited. Everyone knows that it is a fabrication. His story has changed again.

Lastly, the Prime Minister told us that the former attorney general should have let him know that his interference in SNC-Lavalin's criminal case was a problem for her, but she never did. However, in her testimony before the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, she said that she had looked him in the eye and asked him if he was politically interfering with her role as the attorney general, and that she had told him she would strongly advise against it.

Yesterday in the House of Commons, the Prime Minister admitted that she had told him that. In doing so, he contradicted himself in front of all Canadians, because he had previously claimed the attorney general never raised any problems with his interference. His story changed yet again. When two people contradict each other and it is not clear which one to believe, the person who is telling the truth is often the one who does not change their story.

The person who keeps changing their story is usually the one who is not telling the truth. What I have shown in my hours and hours of speaking during this debate is that the Prime Minister has constantly changed his story. He changed his story more often than he changes his flashy socks. Meanwhile, the former attorney general did not change her story. The former attorney general said one thing about each fact. She let all Canadians see text messages and excerpts from her personal diary, and she let them hear a recording of a conversation from December. All of the facts set out in those documents bolster the testimony she gave before the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.

This matter is not behind us. What lies ahead?

First, people who are still in the Prime Minister's Office interfered to help the company. These people were meeting with SNC-Lavalin for months. We should know what they did and why.

Second, we need to figure out whether the Prime Minister lied to Canadians about this matter.

Third, we need to know what the Prime Minister and his current Attorney General will do in the future. There is a lot of evidence showing that they are both open to or even set on giving SNC-Lavalin an agreement. This agreement could help the company avoid a criminal trial. If this is going to happen, we should know, especially before the election. We may not get an answer, and the trial could continue after the election.

If the Prime Minister is re-elected, I predict that a special deal will be signed before Christmas. This would allow SNC-Lavalin to skirt justice on the fraud reported by law enforcement. Before they go to the polls, Canadians should know whether this agreement will happen if the Prime Minister is re-elected.

All these questions could be answered if members of the Liberal Party attend the meeting of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics next Tuesday. That is when we will decide whether to move forward with an investigation.

As I just said, I will sit down as soon as a Liberal member tells me that the Liberals will vote in favour of an investigation. There is no reason for the Prime Minister to refuse such an investigation. If he has nothing to hide, it will be easy and there will be no problem. Canadians will see that he is just as perfect as he claims to be. However, if there are secrets, then I have some advice for him. He should let those secrets out now instead of trying to save them for later. Secrets are a heavy burden.

Every day that he tries to hide his secrets, the burden gets heavier.

Canadians have the right to know what happened. They also have the right to know what the Prime Minister and his Attorney General are going to do in the future.

The choice is simple. The current Conservative leader said that he will not interfere in the judicial system if elected. A Conservative government will not reverse a prosecutor's decision on how a trial should proceed.

I know we are captivated by this scandal and the cover-up budget that has attempted to distract us from it. The two are not entirely unrelated. In fact, they are related for two specific reasons.

First, the government thought it could distract from this scandal by simply spraying around an extra $41 billion in government spending, almost all of it paid for by deficits in the short run. This is what I call the Liberal three-step: step one, massive scandal; step two, massive deficit spending to distract from the scandal; step three, massive tax increases to pay for it all after the election.

In that sense, these two issues are linked. The scandal is what convinced the government it needed to blow billions of dollars out the door, right before the election, and get everyone thinking and talking about something else.

However, there is a second reason they are linked. The reason companies increasingly think they can get ahead through their connections to this government is that the Prime Minister's philosophy is one of state economic control. He believes in an ever-growing government.

We were told that whenever politicians on the far left decide to grow government, it is to replace greed with some government-directed altruism. We on all sides of the spectrum agree there is a human desire to improve one's lot, to have more and better tomorrow than we have today. In its benign form, we call it ambition; in excess, we call it greed. Whatever word we use, it is part of human nature.

In a recent speech, socialist Senator Elizabeth Warren described it this way: “In reality, billionaire investors and wealthy shareholders in powerful companies often have exactly three goals: maximize profits, maximize profits, maximize profits.”

Egalitarian socialism proposes to abolish this impulse from human nature altogether so that all the money goes to the government. In this way, everyone equally owns the government and everyone is equally rich or poor and no one really moves backward or forward relative to the pack—or so we are told.

Ironically, both socialists and Conservatives have accepted that this is what happens when government gets big enough. The former celebrate equal outcomes, the latter decry the lack of incentive to work and produce industry, which will be the result from government trying to eliminate any form of competition between people.

Famously, Churchill once said, “The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” However, is that what happens? Can socialism really expand government to control all the wealth so that it is shared equally by everyone? Can it grow so big that it can replace human nature itself? If so, we must accept the belief that the state can literally banish personal ambition and avarice from human DNA.

Can government grow so large that it not only replaces the private sector but replaces human nature altogether? If so, are we the only species whose very nature governments can alter, or can the state change other creatures as well, so that flies no longer feast on honey, nor ravens on the carrion of dead gazelles, nor fish such as pike on floating garbage, nor the greedy client from the lords of the state? We need to answer “yes” to believe that socialism is capable of changing self-seeking human desires.

The alternative explanation, the alternative theory, comes from the great Nobel Prize-winning economist James Buchanan. He developed something called “public choice theory”, which he called “politics without the romance”. To quote The Wall Street Journal, “Buchanan described it as the application of the profit motive to government: 'It presupposes that if there is value to be gained through politics, persons will invest resources in efforts to capture this value.'

In the market, profit-seekers invest in commercial enterprises to gain wealth, but in government-controlled economics, the profit-seeker invests in political influence to gain wealth.

Buchanan wrote:

However, when the governmental machinery directly uses almost one-third of the national product, when special interest groups clearly recognize the “profits” to be made through political action, and when a substantial proportion of all legislation exerts measurably differential effects on the separate groups of the population, an economic theory can be of great help in pointing toward some means through which these conflicting interests may be ultimately reconciled.

People act rationally in a market economy, investing in order to get a return. Dr. Buchanan found that government-controlled economies have exactly the same type of calculated trade-offs. People invest in politics in order to get rich. In fact, the only thing that changes is the way one gets rich.

The way one gets rich in a government economy is by winning the favour of the political decision-makers who allocate the resources. Instead of selling things that people agree to buy, one buys the politicians who control the money. If all the money is in the great vault of the state, profiteers work at buying or renting the keys to that vault. They donate to politicians who give them subsidies. They offer luxurious vacations to prime ministers in exchange for grants to their foundations. They hire lobbyists to convince governments to shut down their competitors with more regulation and tariffs.

Buchanan wrote:

The individual who seeks short-run pleasures through his consumption of modern “luxury” items sold in the market is precisely the same individual who will seek partisan advantage through political action.

In the book Welfare for the Well-to-Do, economist Gordon Tullock put it this way: “Today the individual who works hard and thinks carefully in order to make money in the market will also work hard and think carefully in order to use the government to increase his wealth. Thus, we should anticipate that effort and ingenuity would be put into using the government for gain, and if we look at the real world, we do indeed see such activities.”

Therefore, the larger the government becomes, the more we can expect profit-seekers to turn their money into power and to turn that power back into yet more money.

We see this here in Canada. In 2017, there were 23,000 lobbying interactions with designated public office holders in the federal government, a 79% increase in just three years, which just happened to coincide with a 20% increase in government spending.

Guess what? The two fastest-growing sectors in the economy now are government and lobbying, which are two sectors that grow hand in hand.

South of the border is no different. The American company called Strategas Research Partners produced a fascinating graph showing the correlation between the amount of money American business spends on lobbyists and the share of the U.S. federal government as a part of the GDP. It showed that as the U.S. government in Washington gets bigger, so does the amount of money U.S. companies spend on lobbying that government. In 2000, federal spending in the U.S. was about 19% of GDP and there was about two billion dollars' worth of lobbying. By 2009, a decade later, government spending had grown to 25% of GDP, almost a third bigger, and real lobbying had nearly doubled in inflation-adjusted terms to $4 billion. With more money in the government in Washington, there is more money spent on lobbyists to get that money from Washington.

It looks like Elizabeth Warren was right: Corporations seek profit, profit, profit. What she did not tell us is that they are just as capable of seeking that profit from big government.

It makes sense. When government decides who gets what, business buys a bigger share of government. Who wins when that happens? Of course it is those with money. They can hire the best lobbyists, promise future jobs to politicians, make donations and schmooze the officials.

The working class, by contrast, can afford none of these things. They are too busy trying to keep their heads above water and raise their kids and take them to hockey and soccer. They do not have the financial means to hire lobbyists and accumulate and leverage political influence.

Let me give an example of the payoff.

Bombardier invested in lobbyists and got a $400-million interest-free loan from the current Liberal government. This is how it worked: The government gave Bombardier the $400-million interest-free loan so the company did not have to raise the money in equity markets. That was so important, because the billionaire Bombardier-Beaudoin family wanted to remain the majority controllers of the company. The family owned 53%. If it had sold more shares, it would have diluted its interest below a majority control and would no longer have been in charge of the family business. Less than 50% meant that it would no longer choose management and would not get to pass the business as a family heirloom from one person to another.

What did Canadian taxpayers get for this corporate welfare? It was not very much. It turns out the company moved its jobs to South Carolina and sold the IP to Europe, but left the bill with Canadian taxpayers. The only winners were the billionaires.

Yes, the lady bagging groceries at the corner store had to pay higher taxes to fund a bailout to a billionaire feudal family that was in charge of this company only because of their political connections to this government.

We can look elsewhere. Private equity funds and investment bankers have invested in lobbyists, and guess what they got? They got a $15-billion infrastructure bank to protect their investments in infrastructure and megaprojects. If a banker asked us for a thousand bucks, we would say, “What for?” The Liberal government is asking for basically $1,000 from every Canadian family in order to set up this infrastructure bank.

What is it for? Let us go through the possible explanations of what it could possibly be for.

The first is that it would fund infrastructure, but private banks, capital markets, pension funds and private equity enterprises already bankroll billions of dollars of infrastructure projects, and they will invest $2 trillion more worldwide, if we believe the estimates in the government's own fall economic update. With so much private money already invested in infrastructure, the last thing we should need is another government bank to provide more. That cannot be the reason.

Perhaps we need the new bank to bridge those private dollars into public projects such as mass transit, yet here again the government's own fall economic update indicates that those investments are already happening without the bank and cited the $2-billion Canada Line. This was the biggest public transit project in Canadian history, and it daily moves 120,000 passengers from Vancouver's downtown, suburbs and airport. It exists through investments from large private sector and commercial interests. As an example, Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec invests in that Vancouver project. Quebec pensioners help build mass transit for British Columbians, whose transit fares in turn help pay Quebec pensioners.

All that happened without an infrastructure bank, just as the privatization of Highway 407 happened without an infrastructure bank and just as the privatization of the Canadian National Railway happened without a government-owned infrastructure bank.

What is this bank for? I keep knocking down the possible explanations, but we do have one. The Canadian Electricity Association made a submission at the House of Commons transport committee on how the bank should work, and this is what it said: “Also important is the inclusion of de-risking mechanisms such as loan guarantees....”

Bingo. There is the reason. In one sentence the power companies explained the real purpose of the bank: taxpayer-funded guarantees to protect investors from losses.

The government bill that creates the infrastructure bank uses the term “loan guarantee” 14 times. The power companies are on to something. Their submission uses the terms “de-risking”, “de-risk” or “reduce risk” about five times. The prefix “de-” implies that the bank can delete the risk, just like a magician can make a grenade disappear. If one has a grenade, there is a chance it could explode, but this de-risking magic can make it just vanish into thin air.

Wrong. It does not disappear. It just takes the grenade from the company and puts it in the lap of Mr. and Mrs. Taxpayer. It does not de-risk; it relocates the risk. Now we know why the government needs an infrastructure bank.

Years ago, institutional investors could get taxpayer-funded returns from sleepy government bonds, but interest rates have been so low for so long that the only way to make real money is to invest in riskier ventures—such as building power plants, for example.

As a J.P. Morgan Asset Management report indicated, merchant power generation pays 14% to 20% returns, but here is the problem: Its risk category is high. Cost overruns, revenue shortfalls, construction delays and labour disputes can cause major losses unless...unless there is a new government bank that agrees to take all that risk off the government's back.

Currently, governments force builders to cover cost overruns on construction projects through fixed-price contracts, and they force those companies to buy bankruptcy insurance to keep projects on budget if the contractor goes under. I know this personally, because we had an essential piece of infrastructure under construction, a bridge connecting east and west Ottawa deep in the south end of the city, and the builder went broke. The good news was all the risk was on the company's back and the company had to hire a bonding company to take over the project if the major proponent went under. In other words, the taxpayer did not pay for cost overruns, and while there was a delay, the people who pay their bills every day, the taxpayers of Canada, did not pay the price. The company did and the bonding company did.

But that is not the case with the new infrastructure bank. Testifying before the House of Commons transport committee, the top public servant responsible for the bank described the tool as existing for “underwriting sophisticated, highly complex projects”.

The word “underwriting” comes from 17th century London insurers, who would literally write their names under a list of cargo on board a shipping vessel. If the ship sank, so did the underwriter's money.

Taxpayers could sink billions of dollars by underwriting infrastructure projects with this new bank.

Guess who is involved in the Infrastructure Bank. It is a three-letter word: SNC. The bank, though it has a well-paid CEO and fancy offices in Toronto, which, by the way, do not comply with the Official Languages Act, has only one project to its name, and of course, SNC-Lavalin is right in the middle of it. There is no surprise there.

Now, it is easy to imagine why SNC-Lavalin and other wealthy investment bankers and private equity fund managers would want this arrangement, but what is not clear is why a government, elected by taxpayers, would agree. At closed-door meetings in Davos, New York and Toronto, and in direct talks with officials, the most powerful financial interests on Earth have directed the Liberal government on how the bank should work. It is the golden rule of the Liberal government: Those who have the gold make the rules. Their rules are simple. They get the rewards; taxpayers get the risk.

Now that we know what and who the bank is for, those who will pay the price must fight to stop it.

It is not just the Infrastructure Bank. Some technology companies have invested in lobbyists, and they have been able to secure brand new billion-dollar corporate welfare funds called “superclusters”.

Here in Ontario, at the provincial level, we saw the worst kinds of these self-licking ice-cream cones, where a commercial interest pays a lobbyists, which influences a politician to pay the commercial interest, and the commercial interest uses some of that money to pay the lobbyist to influence the politician, and on and on it goes. It is a self-licking ice-cream cone, and it has never been so big and so sumptuous as it is under the Liberal government.

Actually, that is not fair. There was the Ontario government under Kathleen Wynne and Dalton McGuinty.

Wait a second. Someone yelled, “What about the Harper government?”

I want to point something out. There was something like 70% less lobbying around this place, according to the registry, when Harper was in charge and the size of government was shrinking. The one place that went out of business was Hy's Steakhouse. Do members think that is a coincidence?

God bless the good people who worked there. They were wonderful people. However, it was a hangout for lobbyists and power brokers. Is it not fascinating that it was right in the middle of the Harper tenure that the place became so tired and so sleepy and so uninhabited that it no longer could afford to pay its bills. These kinds of places are popping up all over Ottawa now, because the good times for the lobbyists and the insiders are rolling like they have not in years.

We know where the Liberal government gets its lessons. In Ontario, we learned that the largest corporate donor to the Ontario Liberal Party gave the party $480,000, in exchange for which it got $160 million in government handouts. What a return on investment, my friends. John Pierpont Morgan, the Rockefellers, and Warren Buffett could not dream of getting that kind of return on investment. It was $480,000 turned into $160 million in corporate welfare.

Then there is the Green Energy Act, a deliberate government decision to pay 80¢ cents for a kilowatt hour of solar electricity that is worth 3¢. The province has already forced consumers to overpay by $37 billion to buy unneeded, unreliable and overpriced electricity from well-connected power companies. That is why hydro prices have risen by 100% in just over a decade.

Who wins and who loses? Remember that when government gets big, it is supposed to be really tough on the rich and good for the poor, we are told. Who won in this? The rich power companies made off with massive profits, because the government forced people to overpay them for their unneeded power. Who lost? The poorest people lost. Electricity is a larger share of their household budgets than it is for the rich. The Ontario Association of Food Banks called it “energy poverty”. In one year, 60,000 people had their power cut for failure to pay.

When the Ontario attorney general looked at it, she predicted another $133 billion in overpayments between now and 2032 because of the Liberal government's Green Energy Act. That is a total of $170 billion the government is forcing Ontario consumers to overpay above market prices throughout a 25-year period, making it literally the single biggest wealth transfer from the working poor to the super-rich in the history of Canada. Never has any government, in my lifetime, taken so much from so many to give to so few. All this followed countless donations and third-party advertising from the very companies that got all the electricity contracts.

We see examples of big socialist governments using the power of the state to take from the poor and the working class and give to the rich and powerful all the time. Now we have something called the clean fuel standard. It sounds very similar to the Green Energy Act. What would it do? It would actually have nothing to do with clean fuel, unlike the name. All it would do is require those who sell gasoline to pay credits to well-connected people who would be able to sell those credits for supposedly green things that are happening in some other places in the world. Of course, there would be all kinds of greasy middlemen who would grab one piece after another of that action as it went flying by.

What the Wynne Liberals did to electricity bills, the Liberal government will do to gas bills. Gasoline is a much bigger share of a family budget for a poor family than for a rich family, so it would be yet another disgusting wealth transfer from the poor to the rich.

Macaulay, the great poet, warned of this. He wrote, in one of his great poems:

Where as you shed the honey, the buzzing flies will crowd;
Where as you fling the carrion, the raven's croak is loud;
Where as down Tiber garbage floats, the greedy pike you see;
And where so ever such lord is found, such client still will be

It is funny that he chose flies on honey as his example, because flies do not make honey. They consume honey, the same way the parasitical interests that profit from big government do not make any of the wealth they consume, but they sure are fantastic at consuming it.

It is bees that make honey, and it is interesting that bees make honey in a process that is very similar to transactions in a free market economy. Bees do this in a mutually beneficial exchange between plant and insect. The plant provides the nectar, which the bee transforms into honey, and the bee pollinates the plant so that it can reproduce. That is the very nature of the free market transaction, where both participants always win. We know they win, because they are voluntarily participating in it.

These are the fundamental truths of the two different approaches to an economic transaction. Every transaction, every single one in the free market, is voluntary. Every transaction done by the government is done by force. Even when the government spends on worthy causes that we all support, such as the military, for example, it does so through the forceful collection of taxes. As government expands, force expands. As free markets expand, free choice expands.

We understand that this is the only distinction between the two systems. We realize that almost everything we have been taught to the contrary is wrong. Therefore, when Elizabeth Warren and socialists like that warn us that “those powerful companies search out new prey, moving up and down their own food chain”, she is making allusions to the law of the jungle.

It is in the government-run economy, based on force and the power of the state, that the strong can use their money and power to prey on the weak. By contrast, in a system where every exchange is voluntary, based on the consent of both participants, such as in a free market, it is impossible for anyone to prey on anyone else. No business in a free market can force the poor person to work for it or buy its products. That person only does so when he or she voluntarily agrees.

Let me use the example of the Apple store. Apple has been said to be the most powerful company on planet Earth, with a market capitalization of almost a trillion dollars, depending on the fluctuations of the stock market. If a boy whose net worth is $1,000 from mowing lawns throughout the summer walks into an Apple store, some of our socialist friends would ask how this could possibly be a fair transaction. On the one hand, we have a company worth a trillion dollars, and on the other, a young boy worth just $1,000. In other words, one is literally a billion times bigger than the other. How could they possibly exchange in a free negotiation?

The answer is that when he walks into that store, he is literally just as powerful as the company, because it cannot get his $1,000 unless it offers him something that is more valuable to him than the money he has to pay to get it. In that sense, it has to obsess over making his life better. It is the only system where one must make someone else better off to be better off itself.

Let us presume that Apple took a different approach and decided to try to get rich from a government subsidy. Would that boy be equal to the company? Would the two then be on a level playing field? Of course not. The company could hire lobbyists, make donations, cozy up to politicians, have articles placed in newspapers or run advertising to get a government subsidy at the expense of that young taxpayer whose net worth is only $1,000. In that sense, the company would be far more powerful than that young person. That is the law of the jungle, not the free market.

Any relationship based on force favours the strong over the weak. We know this from the most simple and elemental facts of life. If I have an apple and want an orange, and someone has an orange and wants an apple, we trade, and we are both better off, because each has something more valuable than we had before, even though between us, we just have an apple and an orange. That is the miraculous power of the free market economy. It is a voluntary exchange of work for wages, product for payment and investment for interest. These voluntary exchanges happen literally trillions of times every day in the free market parts of the world, and every time they do, both participants are made better off.

If members think this is just theory, they can look at the facts. Dr. M.G. Quibria, a Princeton-trained economist, compared the poverty rate to the size of the government in 40 different developing countries. For each increase in the size of government as a share of GDP, the percentage of people living on less than $1.90 a day increased by an average of 41%.

In other words, bigger governments, even in the developing parts of the world, lead to more poverty. This is in spite of the fact we are constantly told that some countries are poor because the state is not big enough, is not doing enough and is not spending enough. The data shows precisely the opposite.

What is true in the developing world is also true in the developed world. Dr. Tanzi, a Harvard-trained former IMF policy director, conducted similar research on developed countries. He found that countries where government is less than 40% of GDP have significantly better outcomes on the UN development index than countries where the government represents more than 50% of GDP.

The two best-ranked Asian countries on the human development index are Singapore and Hong Kong, countries with no natural resources. They actually have to import their own water. They live on land masses that are a fraction the size of the city of Ottawa, with multiple times the number of people. Despite this, they have the highest standard of living compared to any country in the Asian world.

Our critics will point out quickly that these countries have housing crises. Our critics forget, of course, that this is because they are the most densely populated places in the world. However, I will point out that while housing in these countries is extremely expensive, it is basically the only thing the government controls. Inside those countries, we can see the difference between the immense power of the free market to improve people's lives and the constraints that heavy-handed, excessive government imposes.

Apart from that exception, those countries demonstrate that even though they have governments representing less than 20% of GDP, they have incomes that are equal to or superior to those in countries around the world that have had far longer to develop and far more natural resources with which to do it.

The reality is that the free market system has generated more wealth than any other system ever contemplated. However, unfortunately it has had one failing. Those of us who advocate for this system have allowed the other side, those who believe in expanding the force and control of the state, to steal key words.

I am here today to take them back. Let us start with the word “empathy”. The free enterprise not only allows empathy but requires it. The only way to make a profit in this system is to offer something that is more valuable to people than what they have to pay to get it.

There is no one more empathetic than the entrepreneur to his customer, because he knows that when that customer comes into his shop, he needs to do everything in his power to make that customer happy. That is not something any politician across the way can claim, because at the end of the day they make their living and grow their operation by the forceful collection of taxes.

The reason businesses and entrepreneurs in the free market system have to be so empathetic to their customers is that they have to sell their customers things through a voluntary transaction. Empathy means seeing through another person's eyes. There is a trick to sales: If you want to sell what John Smith buys, you have to see through John Smith's eyes. That is the oldest expression in sales.

Let us take back another word. Another word that those on the socialist side have expropriated is “diversity”. Liberals believe in anything but diversity. They want government control to snuff out diversity. They just kicked two women members out of their caucus because they were speaking up and their voices brought too much diversity for the government to handle.

The greatest thing about the free market is that it is in a constant state of mutation to accommodate every diverse and particular need. I flew from Ottawa to Toronto recently with a constituent whose 80-person company has made a business of helping companies do billing and marketing in Braille and large print, with no government subsidy, all because businesses want access to the visually impaired market.

Compare that to the inflexible and lumbering government school system under the previous Liberal governments and most governments, which cannot provide basic IBI treatment for autistic children despite billions of dollars of money spent.

Let us take another example. Let us take back the other word, “tolerance”. Tolerance exists in a place and in a system called the free market, which ruthlessly punishes the bigoted employer. No system more ruthlessly punishes bigotry in an employer than one that makes that employer pay a price for turning down the best employee because of irrelevant characteristics such as race, gender and sexual orientation. The free market ensures that there is always a built-in incentive, an imperfect one, but an incentive nonetheless, to promote and hire based on merit and to treat every customer in the best possible way.

Yes, we need strong civil rights protections in law, but at the same time we also need to recognize that the greatest protector of all of our services is when we have entrepreneurial free enterprise competition that requires entrepreneurs to reach out and serve both workers and customers.

Here is the ultimate difference between the two systems. We can have a free market where businesses get ahead by having the best product, not a government economy where they get ahead by having the best lobbyists. We can have a market where entrepreneurs make money by pleasing customers, not a government economic system where they get by on pleasing politicians or government officials. We can have a market where the underdog gets the same chance as the fat cat and the challenger the same opportunity as the incumbent. We can all advance based on meritocracy, not aristocracy.

I would conclude today that if the Prime Minister had not decided that government had to be at the centre of every economic decision, maybe SNC-Lavalin and others like it would not think the way to get ahead is by relentlessly lobbying for special breaks and deals.

We on this side of the House of Commons will replace this centralized, government-controlled system of crony capitalism and corporatism with a new free market agenda that will allow everyone to get ahead on their own merit, a system where everybody can get ahead and move forward, a system that puts people before government.

I move:

That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word “That” and substituting the following:

“the House reject the budget since it is an attempt to bury the SNC-Lavalin scandal under tens of billions of dollars of brand new spending, for which Canadians will pay through higher taxes if the government is re-elected.”

The Budget April 4th, 2019

Mr. Speaker, out of respect for the hon. member, who missed the beginning of my speech, I will start over again at the very beginning.

I ask, Mr. Speaker, that you put aside the normal rules of decorum to allow the member to bring popcorn into the House of Commons, because I promise it is going to be one hell of a show.

The Budget April 4th, 2019

Mr. Speaker, at the outset of my presentation today, I brought the House of Commons' attention to a detailed report by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in which it listed the extensive conversations, secret discussions, the Prime Minister's Office had been carrying out with the former attorney general, and indirectly, with the former Treasury Board president, about putting this whole scandal behind the government. I listed the five different conditions the former attorney general is said to have provided in exchange for her willingness to put the matter to rest. Those conditions are the following:

First, remove the principal secretary to the Prime Minister, the now disgraced Gerald Butts.

Second, remove the outgoing Clerk of the Privy Council, Michael Wernick.

Both of them have been removed.

The third condition was to remove senior adviser to the Prime Minister Mathieu Bouchard, whose inappropriate behaviour, and perhaps illegal conduct, I chronicled for the House extensively earlier today.

Fourth, guarantee that the new Attorney General would not overturn the decision of the director of public prosecutions and issue a deal for SNC-Lavalin to avoid a criminal trial.

Fifth, and finally, the former attorney general asked that the Prime Minister take responsibility for his inappropriate conduct and apologize, either to caucus or to the public, or better yet, both.

The first two conditions were met. Butts and Wernick are gone or going, but the three remaining conditions have not, apparently, been met. Mathieu Bouchard, the senior adviser, remains. The Prime Minister has not committed, not guaranteed, that he will avoid further interference in granting SNC-Lavalin a special deal to avoid trial. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the Prime Minister has not taken responsibility for his conduct. He has not apologized. He has not held himself to account, this at the same time he has punished the whistleblowers for speaking out.

Today the former Treasury Board president, the MP for Markham—Stouffville, appeared in an interview with Anna Maria Tremonti, a CBC reporter. Tremonti confirmed that secret negotiations were going on.

I quote from her: “We just learned last night on CBC News that there were secret discussions to broker a compromise with the former attorney general before you were both removed from caucus this week.”

The former Treasury Board president was not able to comment on these negotiations, but she did say the following:

Well, I have been very clear from the beginning of when this took place. The issue, just to remind your listeners, is that there is very good evidence that there were attempts to interfere with, have political interference with, a very serious criminal trial, and I had to resign from cabinet because I was not willing to deny that that took place. And from the beginning, I have tried to suggest that the way to deal with this is to speak the truth, to admit that mistakes were made, to apologize to Canadians for it, and find out how it happened and make sure it never happens again.

That’s been my stance from the beginning that I have communicated to the Prime Minister and his office and others. So to that extent, there have been conversations going on, but I would not say that they were intense in any way. There were no efforts to bring all the people involved into a room together to actually try to resolve this, so I was, I would have to say, fairly stunned when I was expelled from caucus on Tuesday without ever having had an opportunity to speak to caucus, to share my perspective on what happened and why I resigned from cabinet, for example.

She goes on in this interview to make some other very interesting observations.

I will note that although I do not share the party's colour or perhaps the political ideology of this particular member, she is a widely respected medical doctor, and up until her most recent political stand, someone the government had put forward as an example of the integrity and expertise it boasted on its front bench. Therefore, I ask Liberal members not to roll their eyes and dismiss her as though she is some sort of political enemy. She has not been a political enemy to the Liberal Party. These remarks show that she might have been the best friend the Prime Minister could ever have had if he had been willing to listen to her wise counsel that he rest himself on integrity. However, he did not listen to that. Instead, he punished her for speaking truth to power. She goes on to explain how that happened. She said:

Well, what I did, for example, I have to say was a hard thing to do. I made the decision to resign from cabinet because there is a constitutional convention of cabinet solidarity. That means that when we talk about a decision in cabinet, we may air our disagreements around the table privately, but we have to go out from that room of one mind prepared to defend and support the decision that we have made together, and I've always been able to do that on any of the other important issues that we've talked about.

In this case...the issue at the heart of this is the independence of our judicial system. We cannot have a democracy without an independent justice system that is free from political interference. And I felt there was evidence that there had been some attempts of interference, and the expectations of cabinet ministers to deny that the interference took place and/or to suggest that it didn't matter, that it wasn't important in some way, was not something I could do in good conscience, and so I could not meet my expectation of cabinet solidarity on that matter, but it was a very hard thing.

You know, I don't want to go into a lot of detail, but I have received some treatment which I think is less than respectful from former colleagues and lots of folks on social media and elsewhere. You know, that's not what the story is about. I can deal with critique, but it takes a certain measure of courage to step up and do something that is going to upset others, but I believe so strongly in the importance of us as a country having a justice system that we can trust, to know that decisions are not going to be made in the courts based on whether the person or the company on trial is friends with or associated with a particular politician who will plead their case. That's the fundamental issue here.

She has hit the nail on the head. A lot of people have said that this is an inside-baseball story. Who could possibly make sense of all the intricacies of the justice committee, the ethics committee, deferred prosecution agreements and the Shawcross doctrine. It is all so boring. When are people's eyes going to glaze over?

What keeps shocking members of the Liberal Party is that eyes are not glazing over. People are not losing interest in this scandal. If the Liberals want to understand why, they need only listen to their own former treasury board president, because she said it here so simply, and I will say again what she said:

but I believe so strongly in the importance of us as a country having a justice system that we can trust, to know that decisions are not going to be made in the courts based on whether the person or the company on trial is friends with or associated with a particular politician who will plead their case. That's the fundamental issue here.

That is why the people of Canada understand and have followed this scandal so carefully. They do not need to know all of the intricacies of the Shawcross doctrine or how cabinet confidence works. What they do know is this. In our system everybody is supposed to be equal under the law, that there is no special treatment for special people or special companies. We have the rule of law and not the law of rulers. We cannot buy justice with powerful lobbyists.

That is exactly what is at stake in this scandal. Do we have one law for the people and another for the powerful? Everyday people on the streets understand how much we stand to lose if we normalize the process of politicians walking into the court sphere and helping special people avoid prosecution.

The former Treasury Board president was asked by Anna Maria Tremonti, the CBC host, “Do we have a justice system in Canada that is now deeply flawed? You left, you didn't get what you wanted, it doesn't change. Does that mean our justice system is flawed as it stands right now, under this Liberal government?”

The former Treasury Board president replied, “No, in fact I think Canadians can be very thankful that the system did work. I believe it worked because the former attorney general did not bend to the wishes of those who wanted her to interfere in the trial.”

“The decision around this particular trial, the SNC-Lavalin case, it's been described by some as the largest corporate corruption trial in modern Canadian history”, says the former Liberal Treasury Board president. “It's not an insignificant trial in any way”, she goes on, “and there is a person called the director of public prosecutions who is completely non-political, who has a large office of people who are trained in criminal prosecutions. She made the determination that this should go to trial. There is a tool that the former attorney general could have used if this company qualified, but the director of public prosecutions said they did not qualify for that.”

She goes on to state, “There is lots of evidence as to why. We can be thankful that we did not have...political interference did not occur, but it was because the former attorney general was not willing to meddle.”

This goes right to the heart of one of the principal defences that the government has so far made. The Liberals say that the company did not get a special deal in the end, so none of this matters, so let us forget about it and move on. It is not because of them; it is because of one principled woman who stood in their way. What did they do? They trampled over her, kicked her out as attorney general and now they have forced her right out of the Liberal caucus. They have tried to destroy her reputation and sent out powerful former Liberal ministers to make racial and sexist slurs against her as part of a long-standing, two-month campaign of character assassination.

With all of that said, it is because of her that this company did not wrongly get off without a trial. The former Treasury Board president was quite right when she pointed out why, and let me say it one more time, “There is lots of evidence as to why. We can be thankful that we did not have...political interference did not occur, but it was because the former attorney general was not willing to meddle.” In other words, the Prime Minister's office was on one side, the former attorney general's office was on the other side and further still was the director of public prosecutions. The Prime Minister's Office slammed and slammed against that wall that was the principle built in stone of the former attorney general.

Try as they might, like a battering ram, to bust through that wall, that wall held. On the other side of that wall was the top prosecutor of the land, whom the Prime Minister was trying to overpower but he could not do it. The seemingly irresistible force of a Prime Minister was up against an immovable object, and that was the principled former attorney general.

No one on that side of the House of Commons, who still stands behind the Prime Minister, should fool themselves into thinking the administration of justice was protected by anything other than her principle. It is true that as of now SNC-Lavalin is headed for a criminal prosecution. However, it is not true that this has anything to do with the Prime Minister or the people around him. He did everything in his power, over a steady campaign, four months long, to avoid that trial, a trial that his own former Treasury Board president says might be the biggest criminal corruption trial in Canadian history.

However, the people who stood their ground paid the price. We know that. We have witnessed it this week. The Prime Minister has signalled how he responds when strong, principled, courageous people stand up to him and speak truth to power.

George Orwell said, as my friend from British Columbia recently reminded me, “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.”

No more appropriate words could be spoken in the House of Commons than those on this particular week. The anger and hatred that senior Liberals have shown these two courageous whistle-blowers over the last two months demonstrates just how accurately Orwell captured the sentiment and the consequences that truth tellers often face.

We are all blessed that they did tell the truth, that they did do their job and that, for now, the sacred, precious, fragile gift handed down from our ancestors of an independent legal system is, in the moment, safe. I say in the moment because we do not yet know the next chapter in the story.

Will the government succeed in covering up any other political interference that went on? We do not know. Will the government succeed in covering up the real motives for the Prime Minister's extraordinary defence of this accused corporate criminal? Will we ever find out who stood to benefit from the Prime Minister blocking this trial for fraud and bribery? Finally, will the trial ever actually make it to court? These delays will drag on, maybe until after the next election.

With the Prime Minister refusing to rule out a future deferred prosecution agreement, with his current position that he has done nothing wrong, what assurance could we possibly have that he will not do it again? If he, as is his current position, believes there was nothing wrong with the four month campaign of pressure applied to the former attorney general, that it was perfectly acceptable for everyone from his chief of staff to his principal secretary to the clerk of the Privy Council to his senior adviser to his finance minister to the finance minister's chief of staff, all relentlessly badgering the former attorney general to write a letter overturning the decision of the prosecutor and shelving the charges, if he thinks that all of that was perfectly appropriate, why would he not just do it again? He is open to it.

The Attorney General says he might do it, but he does not know yet. He will not say, but he is thinking about it. There is no further comment, and he tells us we will see him after the next election.

Members should not say I did not warn them. They should not be surprised if in the lead up to Christmas later this year, the Prime Minister is back in office and all of a sudden, unsurprisingly, SNC-Lavalin gets let off corruption charges. Members opposite get excited about the prospect that SNC might get let off on the crimes of fraud and bribery. Some Liberal members take great delight in the prospect that after the next election, the Prime Minister could step up and have his Attorney General shelve those charges so the company could get off with impunity, as the Libyan people are left to suffer the consequences of the corruption that SNC is said to have carried out.

The reaction we just witnessed on the floor of the House of Commons confirms my warning that if the Prime Minister is back in office, make no mistake that he will let SNC-Lavalin off and he will contaminate our justice system with more political interference. He has made it clear that he does not believe there is anything wrong with a prime minister pressuring an attorney general to override a top prosecutor.

That is not my allegation. He had a chance to stand up at his February 15 press conference and state clearly and definitely that what happened was wrong. In fact, what the former Treasury Board president noted as a solution was for him to stand up at that press conference and say that it was a mistake, that he should not have done it, that he would never do it again and that he was sorry. However, he refused to do that because he does not think there is anything wrong with what he did. If he does not think there is anything wrong with it, why would he not just do it again?

I welcome him to come before the House and make a promise to that end, not that his promises have meant anything in the past. Even if they did and we could believe them, he has not even yet promised that a future re-elected Liberal government would refrain from imposing a settlement that would shelve the criminal charges against SNC-Lavalin.

In other words, this is not over. This is only the beginning. The future of judicial and prosecutorial independence is very much a live issue in the coming federal election.

One leader has thus far said that if he becomes prime minister, he will not interfere with his attorney general and will not allow for a political decision to override the prosecutor and shelve criminal charges against large-scale, white-collar criminals. That leader is the leader of the Conservative Party.

Maybe the leader of the NDP will say the same thing. I welcome him to do so. By all accounts, he is an honourable man. The leader of the Green Party may say the same thing. Our disagreements notwithstanding, she too is an honourable person. I believe they all will commit to the idea that if they are elected prime minister of Canada in October of this year, there will be no political interference to let this large-scale, accused corporate criminal off the hook.

However, there is one leader who has thus far refused, and done so resolutely, to rule out doing that.

In other words, we are just at the very beginning of this debate about the future of the prosecution of SNC-Lavalin. We will have to decide as a nation whether it is acceptable for crony capitalists and corporatists to flood this place with lobbyists and illegal donations in order to buy themselves justice.

Any other Canadian accused of any other offence would have no political recourse against it. Those individuals would have to hire a lawyer and fight the charges in front of a judge or a jury of their peers. However, the Prime Minister thinks there is absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of a corporation with billions of dollars, massive influence, shareholders, lobbyists and board members linked to power in government using all of that influence to avoid repercussions in our criminal justice system.

He thinks that is perfectly fine and he believes that decision should reside with his office, not with an independent prosecutor who is immune to political interference, not with an attorney general who is sworn to non-partisanship, but with him, with the Prime Minister with the most political office in all of the land. He is creating a justice system based on who people know in the PMO, where there is one set of rules for the people and another set of rules for the powerful, where he replaces the rule of law with the law of rulers.

We have to remember just how fragile a gift we have inherited. We are among the blessed few born in a democracy with an independent system that judges the guilt or innocence of people in the court of law and carries out that judgment independent of political decisions. Billions of people around the world would literally give their lives for the chance that their children might live in such a country as ours.

Three hundred thousand people a year arrive on our shores, the largest sustained rate of immigration of any country in the world, because people flee from places where politicians decide who faces trial and who walks free. These people come here because they heard and they understood that in Canada it is different, that everybody is equal under the law and no one is above the law.

They understood, those many newcomers who came to our shores and enriched our country, that we had a long-standing and apparently durable tradition of judicial and prosecutorial independence that developed over more than 800 years, from the time of the Magna Carta in Great Britain, the mother country of our parliamentary and legal system. They knew that at the moment that King John signed that parchment he was committing himself to being under the law not above the law, and that meant that henceforward the king, all of the Crown and all those inside the court of the Crown would be subject to the same treatment. No matter their name, their title, their lineage, their wealth, their race, their religion, people understood that when they came to Canada they would be treated as equals.

The protection of that principle is what is at stake in the SNC-Lavalin corruption scandal.

Are we going to hold this company accountable, just like any other Canadian would face accountability if charged with a crime, or are we going to allow backroom meetings by lobbyists and insiders with political decision-makers in the Liberal Prime Minister's government to extend a special deal to avoid trial and dodge accountability? That is what we are debating here today.

I heard the cries of those on the other side that we should just move on, forget about this and get back to talking about something else. “Hey, didn't you hear? We spent $41 billion the other day in the budget. Can't we talk about all that deficit spending?”, the Liberals cry. We will have time for that. They will be held accountable for all the money they have squandered, the debt they have piled up and the taxes they have raised on the working class people to pay for it.

There will be plenty of time for that accountability, I assure the Liberals, and we will welcome that debate with relish. They can spray dollar signs in all directions all they want. We will not be distracted in our role of official opposition. We will show up here every day and do our job of protecting the rule of law, the system of justice and the equality of people. We will do that here today and every day. We will never apologize for doing it.

They can cry, they can howl and they can scream on the other side of the floor, as they are now doing, begging and pleading for silence, but we will not be silent. We will continue to speak up. We will defend the principles that made this country great. We will remember when we look at the green on the ground here that it represents the fields in which the original commoners met to fight for their rights. We will remember that this is the House of the common people—

The Budget April 4th, 2019

Yes I will, Mr. Speaker.

I will restart the quote and I will properly ascribe pronouns and titles in place of personal names. Grand Chief Stewart Phillip is the grand chief of, I believe, the union of first nations in British Columbia. He said of the Prime Minister:

Well it was deeply disappointing to know and understand at this late date in the game that the vision and the promises [of the Prime Minister] that [he] announced in October 2015 have not come to pass. All of the promises and the commitments that he made have simply been set aside and now that he’s under tremendous pressure from the [former attorney general in the] SNC-Lavalin issue, [the Prime Minister] is really revealing himself to be who he really is, which is a very self-centred, conceited, arrogant individual and I think that was demonstrated with his very smug, mean-spirited response to the Grassy Narrows demonstrator. That situation is tragic. Many, many people have died. Many people are handicapped and living with the legacy of mercury poisoning and, you know, he’s such an arrogant individual. It’s very disturbing and very disappointing.

That respected chief was referring to the Prime Minister's disgusting comment at a recent $1,500 a ticket fundraiser where he was speaking to a bunch of well-connected Liberal lobbyists and wealthy donors. A courageous whistle-blower stood up and warned him about an issue of mercury poisoning in an aboriginal community. He had the audacity to laugh about the incident and say, “Thank you for your donation.” Then he said again, “Thank you for your donation to the Liberal Party of Canada.” He actually said it twice.

Of course, the millionaire Liberals in the room burst into uproarious laughter, thinking it was just hilarious, as she was being dragged out by security. He made a joke at the expense of the people suffering from mercury poisoning on a first nations reserve, saying, “Thank you for your donation”.

Is it not nice that he and his wealthy friends can gather together and luxuriate at a beautiful reception. with fine wine and other delicious liqueurs they can enjoy in the comfort and safety of a place where the water is not poisoned by mercury? However, God forbid, someone should stand up and confront him when he thinks no one is looking, when he did not know he was on camera. The real Prime Minister reveals himself, when he is not the drama teacher we all see on television.

The interview continued. Mercedes Stephenson then said, “The prime minister did apologize for his tone and what he said in that video. I take it that that apology doesn’t mean much to you.”:

The response from the grand chief was, “No. You know, I think at this late stage in the game, again, we’re used to [the Prime Minister's] apologies and alligator tears. It’s not about apologies. It’s about getting it right.”

The grand chief made a very good point there, when he talked about the Prime Minister's alligator tears. The Prime Minister has substituted his ability to generate these phony tears on demand for real action on behalf of the first nations people. They were not looking for more water to pour out of his eyeballs. They were looking for fresh water and clean water that they could drink on reserve, and he did not provide any of that. Instead, he provided a disgusting display of mockery against those same people.

Mercedes Stephenson then asks, “How would you describe the relationship between the government and Indigenous communities under the [Prime Minister] compared to previous governments?”

Grand Chief Stewart Phillip replies:

Well, I think started off with a great sense of hope and anticipation that the [Prime Minister and his] government was going to...embrace a UN declaration on the rights of Indigenous peoples and the TRC calls to action were going to be fully implemented, that there was going to be a seismic change with respect to our jurisdictional issues and the other issues around energy in this country. And as time has moved forward, all of those promises have been simply swept aside and have not come to pass. And here we are, six months out from the next...election and we’re faced with the [Prime Minister's] government totally unravelling, coming apart at the seams and without question, the sun is setting on [this Prime Minister].

Mercedes Stephenson continued the interview:

Do you think it’s that the government isn’t committed to reconciliation or that it’s simply much more difficult than they were anticipating and it’s taking more time and more effort to solve what are some very complex problems?

Grand Chief Stewart Phillip replied:

Well, quite honestly, I think that the clip that we witnessed, the most disturbing part of that clip, aside from the smugness and the mean-spirited remark on the part of the prime minister, was the spontaneous applause from the Liberal Party members who were attending, which to me is a reflection on the heart and soul of the Liberal Party, which for many, many decades has had this arrogant sense of entitlement, that they are a national party that is so accustomed to forming government and I think that’s the central issue here. [The] Prime Minister...paid a lot of lip service, you know, to this historic change but I don’t think the party itself was, you know, that much in support of those visionary statements made by [the] Prime Minister...in the early days of his tenure.

Then Ms. Stephenson asked the grand chief about the former attorney general, as follows:

Are you upset because of what happened there or is it also about the government not meeting the promises that you feel they put out there?

Grand Chief Stewart Phillip replied:

It’s both. But believe me, British Columbians, the Indigenous community in British Columbia, were so proud when [the former attorney general] was appointed as justice minister. We have had the privilege and the honour of working with her and we know her to be deeply committed, very conscientious and an absolute work horse. And she’s very meticulous in terms of preparation and keeping records of meetings and so on and so forth. And we knew immediately that the efforts to smear [the former attorney general] were politically motivated and needless to say, we were deeply angered by how terribly she was treated as an Indigenous woman, when the prime minister said there was nothing more dear to him than relationships with Indigenous peoples and in a very misleading way has always held himself out as a feminist.

Then Ms. Stephenson finished up the interview. I encourage everyone to watch the interview and listen to the grand chief's words, which they will find very revealing indeed about the Prime Minister's true motivations and his true character in respect of the issue of reconciliation.

Nowhere is this more evident than in the Prime Minister's decision to trample all over the will of first nations peoples in the approval or rejection of pipelines. First nations people supported the northern gateway pipeline. It was a wonderful opportunity for northern British Columbian first nations communities to generate billions of dollars for schools and hospitals and thousands of jobs for young people bursting with potential but lacking opportunity to fulfill it.

The aboriginal population in the country is the youngest of any demographic. We have this spectacular opportunity for Canada to address its aging population and retiring workforce by expanding opportunity to young first nations people to take on excellent jobs of the future. Many of those good, high-paying jobs, will be in natural resource sectors: building pipelines, pipefitting, welding, operating heavy machinery to install those pipelines and, of course, rightfully collecting royalties from the resulting economic wealth these projects generate.

One thing a lot of people who oppose natural resource projects do not realize is their potential to pay royalties to the rightful owners of the land, in many cases first nations communities. That is why energy companies regularly sign agreements, not only to pay directly to first nations governments revenues that can be used to build schools, hospitals and clinics and provide other services, but also to employ a youthful workforce in those communities.

Let me start with the northern gateway pipeline, which the Prime Minister vetoed, even though it had already been approved and the majority of first nations communities on the pathway of the pipeline had supported it. Many of them had signed benefit agreements with the company Enbridge to share in the prosperity that would come from that project. It is a constitutional obligation to consult with first nations people when their interests are directly affected by a natural resources project in or around their lands. That happened in the case of northern gateway. The project was approved.

However, in the last election, the Prime Minister ran on killing the project, because he wanted to take advantage of a hard-core anti-development agenda that was popular with the far-left base of his party in certain parts of the country. He also wanted to take advantage of the copious foreign dollars that were pouring into Canada to influence the outcome of the last election against resource development.

We now know these foreign interests do not want Canadian resources to get to market, because they are profiting from keeping Canada landlocked in its oil and gas sector. Why? Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Venezuela and numerous other foreign producers of oil do not want to have to compete with Canada. One easy way to prevent that competition is to block the construction of pipelines to tidewater. As a result of the fact we cannot expand our pipeline network to the east and west coasts, we ultimately have to sell 99% of our oil exports to the United States of America, which is the other foreign interest.

The refineries south of the border profit from buying Canada's oil at 40% and 50% price discounts and selling it to the world market at full price. They buy from Canada at 20 bucks, sell to the world at 50 bucks and pocket the difference. No wonder these foreign interests do not want Canada to have pipelines. It has been documented that millions of dollars poured into Canada through various forms of Internet advertising to dissuade people from supporting pro-development politicians, ultimately resulting in the election of an anti-development government. However, the victims of that political agenda, which the Prime Minister deliberately played into, have been first nations people.

Let me read from an article in the Financial Post entitled, “‘We are very disappointed’: Loss of Northern Gateway devastating for many First Nations, chiefs say”.

The article from the April 10, 2017, edition states:

Most aboriginal communities in northern British Columbia impacted by the Northern Gateway pipeline supported the $7.9 billion project and are angry [the Prime Minister] rejected it, say representatives of three of the bands.

Elmer Ghostkeeper of the Buffalo Lake Metis Settlement, Chief Elmer Derrick of the Gitxsan Nation, and Dale Swampy of the Samson Cree Nation said on the sidelines of a private meeting in Calgary on Friday with oilpatch leaders they are disappointed in the “political decision,” which they say was made without their input.

Let us stop there for a second.

The Prime Minister claims to support the constitutional obligation to consult with first nations people on resource projects, but does that consultation only go ahead with those who oppose development? What about consulting the communities, of which the majority support the development? Do they not have the constitutional right to be consulted by their government?

In that case, I would challenge the Prime Minister to tell me: How many first nations communities that had benefit agreements in the northern gateway pipeline did he meet with and consult personally before he vetoed the project?

The article continues:

They are now looking for ways to generate new energy development.

Ghostkeeper said more than 30 of the 42 bands on the Alberta-to-West Coast pipeline's right-of-way were looking forward to sharing in the construction and long-term benefits.

“Their expectations were really raised with the promise of $2 billion set aside in business and employment opportunities,” Ghostkeeper said before addressing the Canadian Energy Executive Association at the Calgary Petroleum Club. “Equity was offered to aboriginal communities, and with the change in government that was all taken away. We are very disappointed in this young government.”

Ghostkeeper said he'd like to see an oil pipeline revived, but led by aboriginals. “We have to partner with the oil and gas industry and be treated as equals, not as token, because any natural resource project that is going to take place on traditional lands has to be given free, informed, prior consent now. The old ways of doing business doesn't cut it.”

I continue to quote from the story:

Derrick said his band was supportive from the outset, but the Prime Minister didn't want to hear from supportive communities. “The fact that the Prime Minister chose not to consult with people in northwestern B.C. disappointed us very much,” he said.

Swampy said some of the bands are discussing legal action against the federal government for rejecting the project without proper consultation.

“They understand that it was a political decision, and not a decision acting in the best interests of Canadians,” Swampy said. “They weren't asked about the financial effect, the lost employment. They are trying to get themselves out of poverty, the welfare system that they are stuck to, and every time they try to do something like that, it's destroyed.”

Let me repeat that for the self-righteous anti-development types such as the Prime Minister, who consistently block these resource projects. Let me quote again from this first nations leader. He says of the local indigenous communities that wanted this project:

They weren't asked about the financial effect, the lost employment. They are trying to get themselves out of poverty, the welfare system that they are stuck to, and every time they try to do something like that, it's destroyed.

That was the effect of the Prime Minister's personal decision to veto the northern gateway pipeline. I quote the article:

Saying “the Great Bear Rainforest is no place for a pipeline and the Douglas Channel is no place for oil tanker traffic,” [the Prime Minister] killed Northern Gateway last November. The Enbridge Inc. project had received regulatory approval, as well as approval from the previous Conservative government, after a decade of planning and more than half a billion in spending.

Think about that. First nations, entrepreneurs and the previous Harper government consulted, studied and examined the ecological and economic impacts for a decade. The company spend half a billion dollars on that process, yet after the independent Energy Board concluded it was in the public interest and it was environmentally safe, the Prime Minister politically interfered and overturned the decision without consulting with the communities on first nations that had supported it and counted on it as their best hope to escape poverty.

The article goes on:

[The Prime Minister] also imposed a ban on tanker traffic on the northern B.C. Coast, while approving Kinder Morgan’s TransMountain pipeline expansion and the upgrading of Enbridge’s Line 3.

I will stop quoting right here.

In the case of Kinder Morgan's Trans Mountain, the Prime Minister claims he has approved that. Not a single shovel is in the ground, all these years later. Not a single inch of steel has been added in pipeline to the Kinder Morgan project. It has been entangled in political obfuscation now for years, even though it must be the least controversial project in the history of pipelines. They are not even seeking a new right-of-way. The pipeline is already there, and they are simply looking to twin it so that its capacity can go from the existing 300,000 barrels to 900,000.

So far, the Prime Minister has bought the old pipeline but done nothing to build the new pipeline. The courts have found that once again he failed to properly consult first nations communities along the route of the Kinder Morgan project and as a result had to go back to the drawing board and start all over. In the process, he has moved as slowly as possible. Do nothing in a mile that could be done in a yard. Do nothing in a yard that can be done in a foot. Do nothing in a foot that can be done in an inch.

The process inches along, with the Prime Minister giving vague reassurances that some day, one day, steel will be in the ground and we will begin building this project, a project on which he has already spent $4.5 billion in exchange for nothing we did not already have.

We know his real agenda, though. He is going to get through the next election by trying to convince Canadians, who polls show support pipelines, that he does too. If he gets back in, there will be no pipeline built, just as there has not been for the last three and a half years, because he is ideologically opposed to energy development.

He said so. He said he wants to phase out the oil sands. Those were his words, and he is succeeding. By blocking the three pipelines that were ready to go when he took office—Trans Mountain, northern gateway and energy east—he has landlocked the industry, put 100,000 people out of work and, as I was just saying, has attacked the interests and the autonomy of the indigenous community.

I was earlier quoting from the Financial Post in April of 2017. Now similar groups are coming forward to demand an end to the Prime Minister's tanker ban. The Prime Minister claims he supports pipelines. How will he get the oil from the coast to Asia if tankers are banned? Does he have some magical petroleum-carrying unicorn that is capable of lifting up the oil and taking it to foreign markets? If there is a tanker ban, how could it possibly get where it is needs to go?

Now I am quoting right out of the National Post:

First Nations coalition calls for rejection of [Liberal] tanker ban; one group plans to file UN complaint

Now we have first nations that are considering going to the UN to fight against the Prime Minister's anti-development policies that keep them in poverty.

The National Post continues:

The coalition has sketched out plans to build a roughly $18-billion oil pipeline from northern Alberta to around Prince Rupert, B.C.

A coalition of First Nations groups is imploring Ottawa to rein in an oil tanker ban on the northern B.C. coast, with one organization planning to level a United Nations complaint against the government to protest the legislation.

The plea is a last-ditch effort to reverse Bill C-48 as it nears passage through the Senate. The coalition, composed of the National Coalition of Chiefs, the Indian Resource Council and the Eagle Spirit Chiefs Council met with a number of senators Tuesday morning in Ottawa to oppose the moratorium.

Calvin Helin, who led the talks with senators, is CEO of Eagle Spirit Energy Holding, which has sketched out plans to build a roughly $18-billion oil pipeline from northern Alberta to around Prince Rupert, B.C.

Helin, a Lax Kw’alaams Band member, has long pitched the idea as Canada’s sole First Nations-led oil pipeline. Helin said C-48 is a matter of “enormous concern” for the roughly 200 First Nations communities represented by the coalition, and said [the Prime Minister's] tanker ban explicitly targets the project, effectively stripping Indigenous people of their economic self-determination.

“Is this what reconciliation is supposed to represent in Canada?” he said.

Is this what reconciliation looks like? When a group of ambitious, smart and industrious first nations people come forward with an $18-billion project that could lift whole communities out of the long-term poverty in which they have been trapped and give them full independence and control over their own destiny and the Prime Minister comes forward with a bill banning them from doing so, is that what he meant by reconciliation?

That is the question that this band member asks as he speaks out against the tanker ban, because the tanker ban is not just about blocking big oil companies from moving their product: It is about blocking these communities from their one chance to escape poverty. If the Prime Minister believed half as much in reconciliation as he does in his great dramatic and theatrical productions on the subject, then he would consult with and listen to these first nations people.

To members of the government, what did he say to Mr. Helin when he put forward Bill C-48, the tanker ban? Did he look him in the eye and tell him that generations of first nations people in western Canada will have to be held back because the government is blocking them from achieving economic independence through resource development, or did he even meet with him at all? My suspicion is that he could not be bothered. If there was no camera nearby and no photo opportunity to carry out, then he simply could not be bothered to show up for reconciliation.

The article continues:

His comments come amid intense angst in Alberta, which has failed for many years to build the necessary pipelines to carry away steadily increasing oilsands production.

The Eagle Spirit Chiefs Council said Tuesday it would file a complaint in “coming days” under the United Nations Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP) against the federal government.

I will pause on this point. There is much legitimate debate about whether the declaration is the best way to achieve reconciliation with first nations people, but the Prime Minister gave plenty of lip service to that declaration before the last election. Now he appears to have violated it with his tanker ban, which prevents first nations from achieving the economic independence that they have worked so hard to achieve.

The National Post article goes on:

The chiefs said the ban unfairly restricts oil exports by the First Nations group, while allowing multinational corporations to ship their products from the southern portion of the B.C. coast.

So here we go again. Large multinational corporations will continue to ship their product, so this is not even about stopping the shipment of oil and gas; it is just about stopping Canadians from shipping their product.

The Prime Minister would never contemplate banning oil tankers from arriving at the east coast. All of those east coast tankers come right across the Atlantic, one tanker after another, to the eastern coast of our country, shipping foreign oil to Canadian markets. As that oil comes in, our money goes out, and we get poorer and poorer. No wonder our trade deficit is approaching record highs.

Let me quote further from that National Post article:

“All we're trying to do is take advantage of the resources available to us,” said former chief Wallace Fox, chairman of the Indian Resource Council, a part of the coalition.

The Eagle Spirit pipeline appears to present a conundrum on Indigenous rights. A handful of first nations communities—including the Yinka Dene Alliance, which opposed the other pipeline projects in B.C.—have opposed the project in the past due to environmental worries. Meanwhile, a host of Indigenous communities along the pipeline route support Eagle Spirit, saying it will give them more financial independence.

Helin said he is close to a consensus among First Nations on Eagle Spirit. He said much of the First Nations opposition to the pipeline comes from Indigenous people, backed by activist organizations, who claim to speak for whole communities but do not.

I continued to quote from the National Post there.

The story goes on and on. The Prime Minister—

The Budget April 4th, 2019

Mr. Speaker, this brings me to the next part of my presentation.

According to the CBC article just published in the last 24 hours about the conditions the former attorney general allegedly brought to the Prime Minister in order to put an end to the public controversy that has been raging, the final one was that the Prime Minister admit:

—publicly, or to caucus alone—that his office acted inappropriately in its attempts to convince her to consider granting SNC-Lavalin a [deferred prosecution agreement].

The Prime Minister apparently considered this a demand he was not prepared to fulfill. He thought that she was in no position to tell him he was wrong. He was the boss around there and did not take responsibility for anything.

That has been the story of his life. He inherited what he calls a “family fortune” from his grandfather. That family fortune had been in a testamentary trust fund for over a decade, the income from which is sheltered from personal income taxes, and he was therefore able to avoid paying the same rate of taxation that another Canadian would pay on earned income for the growth in that trust fund. This was called the testamentary trust fund loophole, and it existed up until the beginning of 2015, when the loophole was closed.

I will note that it was the former Harper government that closed that loophole, and the then Liberal leader opposed Harper's decision to do that. I believe he stood in the House of Commons and actually voted against closing the loophole that he profited from.

We have to do some thinking about whether we need to change the ethics laws to prevent members from using their vote in this House of Commons to profit themselves, or at least to take positions that clearly place them in a real conflict of interest, even if these positions are not captured in law.

Nevertheless, because he has inherited this great family fortune, he has never had to live with the consequences of his own decisions, and he was not prepared to do so in this case either.

The former attorney general had asked him to stand up and say it was wrong to badger, hound, threaten, pressure and interfere in the criminal prosecution of SNC-Lavalin. According to this story, if he had done that and had met the other conditions, she might have stayed in caucus and continued to work with the Liberal government. Although the Prime Minister apparently considered apologizing and although it was widely reported that he would apologize, he showed up at a press conference and put on another high school drama production, which is an extension of his earlier profession, and avoided taking any personal blame or responsibility for his actions. It was at that press conference, I note in passing, that he stated the blatant falsehood that the former attorney general had never once raised any concerns with him about his interference in the file, but I digress.

He did not take responsibility. That says something about him and about the kind of leader he is, versus what he promised he would be. He promised he was going to be the great Prime Minister of reconciliation. He was going to do things completely differently. He would usher in a new era of idealism, and Canadians could take him at his word. That would involve taking responsibility for one's own failures.

When he did not do so, he proved that he had failed to live up to the expectations he deliberately and meticulously set in the last election. Furthermore, by trying to blame the first female indigenous attorney general for his own behaviour, he proved what many have long suspected: that his talk about reconciliation has been nothing more than drama and theatre.

Yes, he has given sobbing speeches and has acted with great symbolism. We know he can put on a show for the cameras. That is what he did as a drama teacher; he acted. However, there is a difference between acting and action, and actions speak louder than words.

Let me examine the approach the Prime Minister has taken in using first nations people for his own political objectives.

In a Rolling Stone magazine article, a reporter asked a question about the Prime Minister's boxing match with Patrick Brazeau, who is now a Senator in the upper chamber. We should note the descriptive language that the Rolling Stone article reports after the Prime Minister was asked that question. The article noted:

[The Prime Minister] mischievously smiles when I ask how much of the boxing match had been planned out. “It wasn’t random,” [he] says. “I wanted someone who would be a good foil, and we stumbled upon the scrappy tough-guy senator from an indigenous community. He fit the bill, and it was a very nice counterpoint.” [The Prime Minister] says this with the calculation of a CFO in a company-budget markup session. “I saw it as the right kind of narrative, the right story to tell.”

This is exactly what I said earlier. He is a drama teacher putting on a production, telling a story about his grandeur at the expense of a so-called scrappy tough guy from an indigenous community.

What is much more disgusting is what he was since caught on video as saying. Wanting to shame Mr. Brazeau, the scrappy tough guy from the indigenous community, the Prime Minister wanted Brazeau to cut his hair, which was part of the bet to fulfill after the outcome of the boxing match. “We're both known for our hair on the Hill. Let's say the loser gets a haircut”, the Prime Minister said of the bet, adding that Brazeau “resisted back a little bit, you know, pointing out that hair has a cultural significance for first nations people, and I said, ‘I know. That's why I proposed it.’ When a warrior cuts his hair, it's a sign of shame, so it's very apropos.”

Let us digest that. The Prime Minister did not just want to win the boxing match; he wanted to do it against an indigenous person. Then he wanted Brazeau to cut his hair because it was a cultural symbol of shame, of him dominating over that person, of him humiliating that person.

Putting aside whether or not Mr. Brazeau agreed to participate in the fight, he did, it was the pleasure with which the Prime Minister embraced this opportunity to shame someone on the basis of cultural traditions. That is the Prime Minister. That is the heart of the so-called reconciliation Prime Minister. This is not lost on first nations leaders.

Let me quote from an interview by Mercedes Stephenson. She said, “Joining me now to discuss this”, and this was referring to the SNC-Lavalin affair, “is Grand Chief Stewart Phillip. Grand Chief, you had a chance to see that video.” She was talking about a video in relation to the scandal. “What did you make of it?”

Grand Chief Phillip said:

Well it was deeply disappointing to know and understand at this late date in the game that the vision and the promises of [the Prime Minister] that were announced in October 2015 have not come to pass. All of the promises and the commitments that he made have simply been set aside and now that he’s under tremendous pressure from the [former attorney general] SNC-Lavalin issue, [the Prime Minister] is really revealing himself to be who he really is, which is a very self-centred, conceited, arrogant individual and I think that was demonstrated with his very smug, mean-spirited response to the Grassy Narrows demonstrator. That situation is incredibly tragic. Many, many people have died. Many people—

The Budget April 4th, 2019

It is funny. Most Liberals members have been hanging their heads in shame for most of my speech as I roll out one devastating fact after another. Now, all of a sudden, when I restate that a Conservative will not grant a special deal to SNC-Lavalin, they start screaming and hollering. They come unglued. It is as though they are more outraged by the possibility that SNC-Lavalin will go to trial for its alleged fraud and bribery than they are about the conduct of their own Prime Minister. I wish they had been screaming and hollering a few minutes ago, when I was laying out all of the evidence of how the Prime Minister's top advisers interfered with a criminal prosecution, but they were dead silent and just sat there in disgrace. The second they find out that a future Conservative government will let the legal course of action run independently and that SNC-Lavalin will be made to answer for itself before trial, that is too far; it is too much, and they cannot handle it and they erupt in screams and hollers.

I think members will agree that this says an awful lot about the things that matter to this Liberal government.

The Budget April 4th, 2019

Mr. Speaker, I have two things to say to my loquacious friend from Winnipeg. First, I am talking about budget policy according to his government. His government put the deferred prosecution agreements in budget implementation legislation and thereby determined that this entire conversation is budget related. That was the determination of the Liberals.

Does he want to rise now and announce that the deferred prosecution agreement ought never to have been in an omnibus budget bill? If so, we would all agree with unanimous consent to repeal it and remove it from the Criminal Code so it could be reintroduced as criminal legislation and put before the justice committee for consideration rather than snuck into a 550-page budget bill. Therefore, yes, it is relevant to the budget according to the government.

Second, the member says that I am repetitious. I dispute that outrageous allegation. However, if he wants me to stop talking about this matter, I will on one condition. He can rise now and commit that the government will allow the ethics committee to bring before it everyone the former attorney general named as having participated in the interference in the criminal prosecution of SNC-Lavalin. The second he does that, I will sit down and shut up. I will stop being, as he alleges I am, repetitive. I will stop speaking, period, for the rest of the week if he stands now and commits to a full investigation at the ethics committee.

Liberals like deals. They wanted a deal with SNC-Lavalin. This is a much easier deal to make. The Prime Minister claims he did nothing wrong. He has thus far refused to apologize for his conduct. If he truly believes he did nothing wrong, the Prime Minister will come right in and offer to have that matter investigated before the parliamentary committee so all Canadians can judge for themselves whether he did nothing wrong.

That brings me to the next of the conditions that, according to a CBC article released today, the former attorney general had suggested she was attempting to extract from the government in exchange for ending the controversy around SNC-Lavalin. According to the article:

But [the former attorney general]'s wishes went beyond a limited housecleaning in the PMO. Sources said she also sought assurances that her replacement as attorney general...would not overrule Director of Public Prosecutions Kathleen Roussel and direct her to give SNC-Lavalin a deferred prosecution agreement.

This is very important. The Prime Minister claims that his decision to shuffle out his former attorney general and replace her with a new one had absolutely nothing to do with her resolute determination not to interfere in the SNC-Lavalin criminal prosecution. It was completely unrelated. The first story was that Scott Brison resigned, which caused a musical chairs game that required the former attorney general to move from her position to Veterans Affairs. It was not to replace Scott Brison at the Treasury Board, but for reasons I do not yet understand and no one has clearly explained. For some reason, the Treasury Board president's resignation required that she move over to Veterans Affairs.

As far as I can tell, that is not an accurate description. Later, the Prime Minister's Office changed its story and leaked to Liberal-friendly journalists the theory that the former attorney general had to be moved out because she tried to elevate a Manitoba judge to become chief justice of the Supreme Court, and that Manitoba judge was not Liberal enough for the Prime Minister's liking. Because he was unhappy with her desire to promote a judge who was not ideologically aligned with the Liberal values of the Prime Minister, he questioned her judgment and that caused their relationship to disintegrate. The story over the original cause of the former attorney general's move changed from “Scott Brison is to blame” to “a not-Liberal-enough Manitoba judge is to blame”.

Others have a simpler theory, and that is that she was moved because she refused to grant a special deal to SNC-Lavalin. The Prime Minister denies that, but what he does not deny and what is now on the public record in this regard is that before the shuffle, the former attorney general of Canada took the position with respect to SNC-Lavalin's special deal that the answer was “no”. After the shuffle, the new Attorney General has taken the public position that the answer is “maybe”.

Let me reiterate. By shuffling the cabinet, the Prime Minister has changed the state of play on SNC's request for a deal from “no” to “maybe”. That is not in dispute. We have documentary evidence showing that the former attorney general said “no” special deal, and we have public comments from the new Attorney General saying “maybe” to a special deal. Whether or not the Prime Minister wants to deny that it was his purpose in the shuffle, it was undeniably the result of the shuffle.

Let us examine the merits of the notion that the company should get a special deal. The legislation amending the Criminal Code that allows for such deals was rammed through this place in a 500-plus-page budget, and it allows the prosecutor to extend these deals to corporate criminals in certain circumstances. Was the prosecutor right when she rejected the company's plea for such a settlement?

We can look to subsection 715.32(2) of the Criminal Code, entitled Factors to consider:

the prosecutor must consider the following factors:

(a) the circumstances in which the act or omission that forms the basis of the offence was brought to the attention of investigative authorities;

How did these circumstances come to the attention of the authorities? In other words, did SNC-Lavalin self-report? Did it stand up and admit that members of the company had participated in fraud and bribery of the Libyan people? The answer is no. We found out about it because Swiss authorities arrested an SNC official and convicted him of the offences that we all now know are before the courts in Canada.

When the prosecutor looked at criterion (a) to determine if it favoured a deferred prosecution agreement for the company, she would have correctly concluded that the circumstances that led to the act or omission, in this case fraud and bribery, becoming known to investigative authorities would not be a mitigating factor, that the company did nothing to show its ethics and transparency by self-reporting and that, in fact, the RCMP learned of the crime when Swiss authorities acted against the individuals who committed it.

(b) the nature and gravity of the act or omission and its impact on any victim;

This paragraph of the Criminal Code makes clear that the prosecutor must determine whether the crime was grave and whether it had an impact on any victims.

Who are the victims? It is easy to think, with white-collar crime, because its effects are not immediately visible, that there are no victims. Violent offences lead to broken bones and bloodied flesh, so it is very easy for the visual human mind to ascertain who the victims are in those cases.

White-collar crime is more insidious, but its damage is no less severe. In fact, that damage can be manifested to the naked eye when one goes to countries that are ravaged by parasitical corruption. We can see it in the slums and shanty towns of the world, where people who are no less talented and industrious than Canadians live in squalor. The most striking thing in these places is the relentless work ethic of the people who live in them. They are always bustling, moving, repairing things and carrying heavy objects and heavy loads. They are toiling away to bring about their survival. However, despite their relentless hard work, often for much longer hours than we in much richer countries work, they never seem to advance and always seem on the cusp of starvation.

What is the difference? What is the cause of their misery? We know it is not them. We know it is corruption. Corrupt interests bleed the wealth of those nations.

In this particular case, SNC-Lavalin is accused not just of bribery, as is so often recorded, although it is accused of that, but also of fraud. So often the two go hand in hand. Let us start first with the bribery, and then we will get to the fraud.

The company is accused of bribing the Gadhafi family with prostitutes, yachts and a whole assortment of other benefits designed to win over the favour of the brutal Libyan dictator so that the company could win public contracts in Libya. It is alleged that the company created a phoney shell corporation through which this bribery could be funnelled. Gadhafi's son, Saadi, received prostitutes and other so-called companion services in the amount of tens of thousands of dollars. Gadhafi and his inner circle received yachts from SNC-Lavalin or its shell companies.

Most people sitting by will ask who the victims of this crime are. The answer is the Libyan people, because the second shoe to drop in the charges is fraud. It is alleged that SNC-Lavalin defrauded the Libyan people of $130 million. This is a group of people who do not have $130 million to give. As a result, they are the victims of this scandal.

Some people might ask how we know that they suffered as a result of the fraud. It is obvious that if that $130 million had not been defrauded by SNC-Lavalin, it could have been put to other more productive purposes for the betterment of the poor and suffering people in the war-ravaged nation of Libya.

The Libyan people could have paid for hospitals and food and medicine for their children. They could have paid for schooling for girls and boys so they could grow up and live in better lands. They could have repaired their crumbling infrastructure with that $137 million of defrauded money. They could have done all those things but for the fact that this company allegedly stole the money and made it impossible to do so.

Maybe that money could have stayed in the pockets of the Libyan people so they could have paid for their own household items to better nourish their children or feed their families. However, that is not possible when companies defraud the people. Therefore, it was a not a victimless crime. It is not acceptable to say that this is just how those people do things over there. The reason people such as the Libyan people live in poverty is that there is this kind of corruption. Therefore, there are victims.

An old tactic of wealthy western companies was to commit their crimes then leave the country before they could be prosecuted locally. They would head back to their western headquarters with their looted cash and live high on the hog with impunity. That is why Canada signed on to international treaties. It was so countries that were host to those companies would prosecute them at home. In other words, the message was this: If they were going to defraud people, if they were going to steal from the poor, they would have nowhere to hide. We would give them no comfort. They would be prosecuted, and they would face punishment for their crimes.

The reason the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development is now examining the Prime Minister of Canada on this matter is that this organization is worried that his political interference might violate our international treaties against fraud, bribery and corruption. That may very well be true.

When the prosecutor examined paragraph 2(b) in section 715.32 of the Criminal Code to determine “the nature and gravity of the act or omission and its impact on any victim”, she correctly concluded that this criterion favoured a rejection of a deferred prosecution agreement for this alleged corporate criminal, SNC-Lavalin.

What about paragraph (c) “the degree of involvement of senior officers of the organization in the act or omission”? In this case, we know that the corruption went right up to the highest levels of the company. In fact, the former CEO not only had to resign but has pleaded guilty to bribery himself. The players in this particular scandal were all tied right into upper management. In other words, this was not some junior intern operating on his or her own accord as a rogue player; it was a corruption scandal that went right to the top and straight to the heart of SNC-Lavalin as an enterprise itself.

Subsection 715.32(2) of the Criminal Code states that the prosecutor must consider this factor:

(e) whether the organization has made reparations or taken other measures to remedy the harm caused by the act or omission and to prevent the commission of similar acts or omissions;

Let us break that into two parts and first look at “whether the organization has made reparations or taken...measures to remedy the harm caused”. Actually, it has not. The company has not paid the Libyan people back the $130 million. If it really believed that what it was doing was wrong, it would have made those reparations.

If, as the act requires, the company was taking responsibility for its wrongdoing, it would have reimbursed all the stolen cash. Imagine all the good that company could have done if it had returned the cash to the people who are suffering in Libya, one of the poorest countries in the world. For reasons unknown to us, that has not happened and thus the prosecutor was unable to use that criterion as a justification for extending a deferred prosecution to SNC-Lavalin.

What other measures has the company taken to remedy the harm it caused the poor and suffering Libyan people? I am not aware of any, and I suspect, nor is the prosecutor. Once again, the director of public prosecutions was correct in evaluating that this criterion found in paragraph 715.32(2)(e) was not met and, therefore, the company does not qualify for a deferred prosecution agreement.

As for any actions the company has taken to prevent the commission of similar acts or omissions, we have had public assurances from the new CEO that the company has changed its corporate culture and has brought in a bunch of new rules requiring that its new members behave in a manner that is more ethical. However, I have no evidence to prove that. The only way to know for sure is if the company goes on for a prolonged period without any repeat of the copious examples of corruption in which it has engaged systematically over the last two decades.

In paragraph 715.32(2)(f), did the organization, SNC-Lavalin, identify or express “a willingness to identify any person involved in wrongdoing related to the act or omission”? The answer is no, it did not. In fact, the wrongdoers, as I pointed out earlier, had to be caught by Swiss authorities and only after that occurred did they get a conviction and did those individuals pay a price. It was not some act of virtue by SNC-Lavalin that led to the prosecution of the wrongdoers in this case, not even close. Once again, the prosecutor was absolutely right when she said the company did not meet the criterion in paragraph 715.32(2)(f) of the Criminal Code, which asked whether the organization had identified or expressed “willingness to identify any person involved in wrongdoing related to the act or omission” in question.

The next criterion that the prosecutor is asked to evaluate is:

(g) whether the organization—or any of its representatives—was convicted of an offence or sanctioned by a regulatory body, or whether it entered into a previous remediation agreement or other settlement, in Canada or elsewhere, for similar acts or omissions;

In other words, is this an isolated incident? Did SNC-Lavalin simply make a small mistake once and, for God's sake, can we not all make a mistake from time to time? Even in the six hours that I have left, I do not have time to chronicle all of the proven corruption in which this company has engaged over the years. We would have to go too far back in history and travel too many years to the present in order for all of its crimes to be listed on the floor of this House of Commons. This company has officials who have been convicted or have pleaded guilty to bribery in relation to the Jacques Cartier Bridge and, once again, bribery in relation to the McGill University Health Centre.

Did the Prime Minister, by the way, when he was working so hard to get the company off these charges, insist that in exchange for the settlement the company repay Canadian taxpayers for any wrongdoing in respect of the Jacques Cartier Bridge? Did he ask SNC-Lavalin to repay Quebec taxpayers for the bribery in respect of the McGill University Health Centre? I suspect not.

Those are just two examples. We have SNC officials who are accused of crimes in Mexico and Panama, who have been charged in Switzerland and, of course, in Libya. There are other examples I could list but, again, due to a lack of time I will not at this moment.

All of this is to say this organization and its representatives have a track record of criminality that would be hard to match anywhere in Canada, and competes with companies around the world for its prodigious criminal track record.

It says here that the prosecutor must also consider whether the organization or any of its representatives is alleged to have committed any other offences, including those not listed in this part. Once again, of course, its representatives are accused, convicted and have pleaded guilty to countless other serious crimes. I will not reiterate what I just said.

Finally, the prosecutor is obliged to consider any other factor that he or she considers relevant. I suspect the prosecutor did that very carefully. She properly concluded, having looked at this criteria even more systematically than I have just now done, that the company did not qualify for a deferred prosecution agreement. That is probably why the former attorney general took one look at the act in the Criminal Code and one look at the track record of the company accused, and said the director of public prosecutions was absolutely right not to grant this company an exemption from charges by signing a deferred prosecution agreement.

I wonder if anyone in the Prime Minister's Office even bothered to read their own legislation when they made this relentless drive to convince or strong-arm the former attorney general to overrule her prosecutor.

I note that the argument the government used was one that it is not even allowed to make. In subsection 3 of this chapter of the Criminal Code it says:

if the organization is alleged to have committed an offence under section 3 or 4 of the Corruption of Foreign Public Officials Act, the prosecutor must not consider the national economic interest, the potential effect on relations with a state other than Canada or the identity of the organization or individual involved.

The government has claimed, falsely, that it was doing all this to protect jobs. I have, in previous interventions, proven that was a complete falsehood. I call it the “jobs lie”. The government was not protecting a single, solitary job, except for, perhaps, those of the powerful executives at the company. Otherwise, the claim that this was a job protection plan by the Prime Minister is completely false.

However, even if it were not, the act in question is clear that the prosecutor cannot take into account national economic interest. In other words, such arguments ought never have been made in the first place, true or otherwise.

Given the act, as it is written, it is impossible to imagine how the prosecutor, or later the former attorney general, would have concluded that this company was entitled to a deferred prosecution agreement. However, I am curious if there is any record anywhere that the Prime Minister's Office tried to dispute the legality of the director's or the former attorney general's position on this.

In all the documents released, including some from our friend Gerald Butts, we see nothing about the criteria in the act that would have justified giving the company a deferred prosecution agreement. I ask members to browse through the documents that Gerry Butts provided. They are supposed to exonerate him and the Prime Minister somehow.

Did any of those documents show that the company was entitled to a deferred prosecution agreement because of the circumstances of the act or omission that forms the basis of the offence? Did those documents show the company was entitled to a deal because the nature and gravity of the act or omission was small, or that the impact on the victim was mild? No. Did Gerald Butts table any document or any information, and did Michael Wernick do the same, showing the degree of the involvement of the senior officers of the organization was so remote that the company was entitled to a deferred prosecution agreement? If they did, I sure as hell did not see it.

Did the government, any of its members, since this scandal erupted publicly in the last two months, show that the company qualified for a deferred prosecution agreement because they had made reparations to the Libyan people, who are the victims of this fraud? Is there any evidence that the government can provide that the Libyan people have been made whole in the aftermath of this $130-million theft?

Did the government, at any time, present to the House or the justice committee or the former attorney general, in any of the evidence that we see, that the company identified the wrongdoers and reported them to authorities before they got caught? Was there any evidence that the Prime Minister's Office provided in order to argue that the company qualified for a deferred prosecution agreement because it self-reported the crime? Of course there was no such evidence.

Did the Prime Minister or the clerk or anyone else provide evidence to the former attorney general that the company should qualify for a special deal because, under the criteria in paragraph (g), neither the organization nor its representatives have ever been convicted or sanctioned by a regulatory body on similar charges. Did they ever provide evidence that the company should be entitled to a special deal because the individuals in the organization listed in the offences had already reported themselves for their offences?

Was there any evidence on any of these criteria that SNC-Lavalin was entitled to a deferred prosecution agreement? There was none, yet the Prime Minister and his team pushed and pushed in what Gerald Butts admitted was 20 meetings, phone calls and text messages, a number that is probably an underestimation. At least 20 times the Prime Minister and his team would go back to the former attorney general again and again. Not once, in any of those 20 occasions, do we find evidence that they argued that the company was even entitled, under the criteria in the law that the government wrote, to receive a settlement. In other words, they were clearly doing something for which they had no legal grounding.

We have text messages proving that instead of acting in accordance with the law, Gerald Butts had cooked up a scheme whereby the government would get a pre-cooked legal opinion to try to justify letting this Liberal-linked corporation off the hook. If that does not defeat, pervert or obstruct the course of justice, I do not know what does.

That brings us from the past to the present and the future.

We now know that in the past, from December through to the attorney general's removal in January, the Prime Minister orchestrated this massive campaign. It is all documented. It has all been proven.

But what about the future? Everyone is forgetting about the future. The Liberal member across the way yelled, “It's over.” I wish it were, but the door is open. The current Attorney General has said he may still grant a deferred prosecution to SNC-Lavalin. He is open to directing the top prosecutor to negotiate such a settlement.

Furthermore, we have looked at the sections of the Director of Public Prosecutions Act, and while it is clear that direction from the Attorney General to the prosecutor must be published in the Canada Gazette, such publication can be delayed if the Attorney General believes it is necessary.

In other words, it now remains a possibility that the Prime Minister will attempt to force through such a negotiation without Canadians immediately finding out. It is possible that the Prime Minister is now hatching a scheme that he will quietly plan right now to grant this settlement to SNC-Lavalin in a way that will only become public after the next election.

Imagine that. After all we have been through, after the brazen interference in the legal system that we have already witnessed, the Prime Minister still will not rule out the possibility that this company will get a settlement instead of going to trial.

Some might say that this is just an opposition allegation. They might question how we can prove that. We cannot prove what someone is going to do in the future, but if he were not going to do it, there is a pretty easy way for him to prove it. The Prime Minister could stand in the House today and say the top prosecutor has made her decision, that being that the company does not deserve a settlement but deserves a trial. He could say he respects the prosecutor's decision, that it is final, and that our government, including our Attorney General, will do absolutely nothing to overturn it.

So far, the Prime Minister has not stood in the House of Commons and said that. Rather, he has allowed his Attorney General to take a public position contrary to his predecessor's and say that an agreement is still a possibility. In other words, we could be sitting here if, God forbid, the Prime Minister is re-elected, and before Christmas we could learn that the Prime Minister has granted a special deal to SNC-Lavalin to allow it to avoid trial in the case of fraud and bribery.

This is very much an open question. Canadians who have followed this scandal breathlessly for two months obviously are interested in the answer to that question, and they should have that answer before the next election.

I can state with certainty that the leader of the Conservative Party, as Prime Minister of Canada, will not direct or in any way influence his future attorney general to hand SNC-Lavalin a deal. He has said, and so I can restate, that he will not interfere with the work of an attorney general or of a top prosecutor. Even if we believe that a deferred prosecution agreement should exist in the Criminal Code—which is something we never really had a chance to debate, because it was buried in a massive omnibus budget bill—we ought to at least believe that granting one is the exclusive decision of the director of public prosecutions, who is an independent and separate agent of the legal system and has the authority to act with an independent frame of mind to make the right decision. Any future Conservative government, much like previous Conservative governments, will always respect the sacrosanctity of prosecutorial independence.

The Budget April 4th, 2019

—to escape justice and law enforcement.

On July 5, 2018, Mathieu Bouchard, senior adviser to the Prime Minister, met with SNC-Lavalin to discuss justice and law enforcement. They talked about the budget that day, too. On November 5, 2018, Mathieu Bouchard met with SNC-Lavalin to discuss justice and law enforcement. November 19, 2018, Mathieu Bouchard met with SNC-Lavalin to discuss justice and law enforcement.

Is SNC-Lavalin in the justice or law enforcement business? It is an engineering and construction firm. That is an awful lot of conversations about justice and law enforcement with a company that is, on those subjects, most known for violating justice and trying to evade law enforcement, yet this one PMO staffer, a senior adviser to the Prime Minister, met with this company over and over again.

If we look at the last six meetings, they almost entirely correspond with the time frame during which the former attorney general experienced what she called hounding, veiled threats and inappropriate pressure from the Prime Minister. No wonder the Prime Minister does not want Mathieu Bouchard to testify before the ethics committee.

The Budget April 4th, 2019

My hon. colleague from British Columbia asks if Mr. Bouchard was asked that question at the justice committee when he testified there. He did not testify there. Nor did he testify at ethics. Nor did the other nine alleged perpetrators, including the Prime Minister, who the former attorney general says interfered to shelve the criminal prosecution of SNC-Lavalin.

Of the people the former attorney general alleges participated in the interference, we have actually only heard from two of them, which is hard to believe this,.

If we are to believe the text messages, journal entries and audio recordings, there were probably 12 different officials: the Prime Minister himself in his September 17 meeting with the attorney general; the Finance Minister in a conversation on the floor of the House of Commons; the Finance Minister's chief of staff Ben Chin, who sent threatening text messages to senior staff of the attorney general; Mathieu Bouchard, senior adviser to the PMO; Elder C. Marques, senior legal adviser to the Prime Minister; Katie Telford, who said “We do not want to debate legalities anymore. We just want a solution”, in other words, a lawless deal to let SNC off. I could go on.

There are at least nine, maybe 10, who are alleged by the former Liberal attorney general to have intervened and who have not yet testified in addition to the two that have already appeared, and those two have been fired. If these others were to testify and their conduct known, they too would probably have to be removed.

Let me go back to Mathieu Bouchard. Why was he so involved in this? Why do we find his fingerprints everywhere on this scandal? It is a good thing we have the lobbyist registry, because all of this starts with the lobbyist registry.

The registry was created by Prime Minister Harper in that very inconvenient Accountability Act. Yes, it is Stephen Harper's fault. We now know most of, perhaps not all of, the lobbying interactions between SNC and senior public officeholders in the present Prime Minister's government. Did they meet with Mathieu Bouchard? The answer is not once, not twice, but close to a dozen times.

Let me recount the number of meetings that this senior PMO adviser had with SNC-Lavalin.

On February 16, 2018, Mathieu Bouchard met with SNC-Lavalin to discuss infrastructure, budget, justice and law enforcement.

On March 16, Mathieu Bouchard met with SNC-Lavalin to discuss international relations, industry, justice and law enforcement.

On May 16, Mathieu Bouchard, senior adviser to the Prime Minister, met with SNC-Lavalin to discuss international relations, justice and law enforcement.

On January 31, Mathieu Bouchard, senior adviser to the Prime Minister, met with SNC-Lavalin to discuss industry, international relations, justice and law enforcement.

On February 28, 2017, Mathieu Bouchard, senior adviser to the Prime Minister, met with SNC-Lavalin to discuss industry.

On April 12, 2017, Mathieu Bouchard, policy adviser to the Prime Minister, met to discuss justice and law enforcement with SNC-Lavalin.

On May 18, 2017, Mathieu Bouchard, senior adviser to the Prime Minister, met with SNC-Lavalin to discuss justice and law enforcement.

On June 21, 2017, Mathieu Bouchard, senior adviser to the Prime Minister, met with SNC-Lavalin to discuss justice and law enforcement.

On July 21, 2017, Mathieu Bouchard met with SNC-Lavalin to discuss justice and law enforcement.

On August 30, 2017, Mathieu Bouchard met with SNC-Lavalin to discuss justice and law enforcement. On September 11, Mathieu Bouchard, senior adviser to the Prime Minister, met with SNC-Lavalin to discuss justice and law enforcement.

They also talked about the budget. Members may remember that in the last Liberal budget, Liberals snuck in an amendment to the Criminal Code, making it possible for SNC-Lavalin to get out of a criminal trial—

The Budget April 4th, 2019

I just heard a member across the way yell, “It's over.” The member for Kildonan—St. Paul is yelling, “It's over”.

Well, they hope it is over.

The Liberals hope that by punishing and attempting to humiliate and attack the two courageous women who were whistle-blowers in this scandal, they have managed to make this thing over. It is not over; it is just beginning.

I hear laughter across the way, laughter at the prospect that a senior PMO adviser would lie and would ask for electoral politics to play a role in the decision to pursue a criminal prosecution against a major company accused of fraud and bribery. That is what makes the Liberals laugh in this chamber.

I now will move on to further testimony by the former attorney general in October. She said:

...the PMO requested that I meet with Mathieu Bouchard and Elder Marques to discuss the matter, which I did on November 22. This meeting was quite long; I would say about an hour and a half. I was irritated by having to have this meeting, as I had already told the Prime Minister, etc., that a [deferred prosecution agreement]...on SNC was not going to happen, that I was not going to issue a directive. Mathieu, [the senior PMO adviser] in this meeting, did most of the talking. He was trying to tell me that there were options and that I needed to find a solution. I took them through the [director of public prosecutions]...Act, section 15 and section 10, and talked about the prosecutorial independence as a constitutional principle, and that they were interfering. I talked about the section 13 note, which they said they had never received, but I reminded them that we sent it to them in September [two months earlier]. [Senior PMO advisers] Mathieu and Elder continued to plead their case, talking about if I'm not sure in my decision, that we could hire an eminent person to advise me. They were kicking the tires. I said no. My mind had been made up and they needed to stop. This was enough.

I go on to the second part of my question:

...there were sustained efforts at communications, not only with me but with my office, from various members of the Prime Minister's Office, including Mathieu Bouchard and Elder Marques, both of whom are policy advisers and legal advisers to the Prime Minister, as well as Gerry Butts and Katie Telford. It would have been, in my view, not a secret that these were concerns that I had.

Now if this was not enough, in the question and answer portion of her testimony, one of the Liberal members asked, “I understand that you referred...that there was one discussion with Mr. Bouchard, and he asked you whether you would consider the option of seeking an external legal opinion.”

The response from the former attorney general was:

In the context of deferred prosecution agreements and SNC, yes. I had that conversation with [[PMO advisors]...Bouchard,...Marques and a number of other individuals.

At that time, all of those individuals knew that I was firm on my decision not to interfere with the discretion of the director of public prosecutions, and having conversations about hiring external legal counsels in that environment is entirely inappropriate.

Let us be clear on one thing here. Gerry Butts, in his very dishonest testimony, seemed to suggest that all he was asking for was that she get a second opinion, like if someone goes to a doctor and gets a prognosis that one is not sure about, one can just go and get a second opinion. We now know from text messages, which have been tabled in the House, that Gerald Butts believed that a second opinion was already determined in what the opinion would be. In other words, he knew what that second opinion would say before even asking for it.

The former attorney and her team questioned what would happen if the second opinion did not back up his desire for her to interfere and offer a DPA. In reply, Gerry Butts said that it would not say that. In other words, he knew exactly what the second opinion would say. It was rigged from the start and it was an attempt to manipulate the former attorney general and force her through a rigged second opinion to interfere and allow SNC-Lavalin to avoid a trial.

Let us put to rest once and for all the manipulative comments of Gerry Butts when he claimed that this was merely an attempt to get another legal scholar involved. It was nothing of the sort. It was attempt to rig the process and hand her an opinion for which the outcome was predetermined.

However, the former attorney general goes on in her testimony. She is speaking again about PMO adviser Mathieu Bouchard. She said:

I will say, with respect to the conversations you mentioned, and Mathieu Bouchard's remarks about an individual prosecutor's opinion being different from that of the director of public prosecutions, I can't help but wonder why he would bring that up. How would he know that? How had he garnered that information?

For context, what she is talking about is Mathieu Bouchard's, senior PMO adviser, claim to have direct knowledge of disagreements between the top prosecutor and the Crown attorney assigned to this particular trial. The fact that the Prime Minister's Office at the highest levels was knowledgeable about internal discussions within the office of the director of public prosecutions suggests something very ominous that we have not yet examined, and it is this.

We already know that the PMO, the finance minister and their staff interfered with the former attorney general. We already know, through 41 pages of text, journal entries and also audio recordings, that this happened. It is not even really disputed anymore. However, what we do not yet know is whether there was similar pressure from the Prime Minister's team directly to the office of the director of public prosecutions.

In order to give viewers who might not understand the superstructure of this situation, we have the Prime Minister's Office, the Attorney General's Office and then on the other side we have the director of public prosecutions. That director is responsible for prosecuting all federal offences except for those that fall to provincial Crown attorneys. In other words, this director is responsible for prosecuting SNC-Lavalin on the charges of fraud and bribery.

We know the Prime Minister was interfering with his attorney general. We know he was trying to get her to interfere with the director of public prosecutions. What we do not know yet is whether the Prime Minister's Office might have actually gone around the former attorney general directly to the office of the director of public prosecutions. However, the fact that this senior adviser was knowledgeable about internal discussions in the office of the director suggests that may well have happened. If there is some other explanation, for example, that SNC-Lavalin was feeding information from its talks with the director over to the PMO, it would be equally problematic. At the very least, we should know the truth.

How did Mathieu Bouchard, a senior PMO adviser, come to know about the internal discussions and the alleged disagreements that were ongoing in the office of the director of public prosecutions?