House of Commons photo

Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was federal.

Last in Parliament May 2004, as Canadian Alliance MP for Calgary Southwest (Alberta)

Won his last election, in 2000, with 65% of the vote.

Statements in the House

The Budget February 28th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, in yesterday's budget the Minister of Finance pledged to get the federal deficit down to $24.3 billion by 1997.

Meanwhile officials of the Department of Finance have been predicting to reporters and the financial markets that the deficit will then be reduced to zero by the year 2000.

However, yesterday's budget was silent on the all important question of how the minister proposes to get from a deficit of $24 billion to zero in three years.

Will the minister tell Canadians and tell the House today how he plans to get the deficit from $24 billion a year to zero: by increased taxes, by cuts to social programs or by both?

The Budget February 28th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, I could respond to a number of points. I thank the member for his intervention. I remind him that Quebec Hydro has paid no income taxes. Nor was Quebec Hydro ever been subject to a raid by the federal government the equivalent of the national energy program, which is one of the differences between how energy has been treated in the west and how it has been treated in Quebec.

With respect to the agricultural impacts of the budget, I have heard other comments by the member's colleagues implying that there is some unfairness in the government cancelling the Crow rate and compensating western farmers to the tune of $1.6 billion and the 30 per cent reduction on subsidies to the dairy industry, a large portion of which is in Quebec.

I remind the member that the dairy industry gets its subsidies from two sources. One is directly from the government but the other is from the high level of protection that supply management is offered. That subsidy comes directly out of the pockets of the consumer and not from the government. If we add the levels of subsidy we find the subsidization of supply managed industries in Quebec is as high or higher than the more free market grain trade and livestock trade in the west.

It is for members from the province of Quebec to consider that if Quebec is an independent country the capacity of Quebec to subsidize and protect to the degree it has in the past is gone and those farmers would be hurt infinitely more than they would be by any measure under the budget.

The Budget February 28th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question and I will respond to it in two parts.

First, he implied that we should be thankful for the minister not increasing personal income tax. I remind the member of the fact he knows well that all these taxes come out of the pocket of the same taxpayer. Automobiles do not pay this fuel increase of 1.5 cents a litre on gasoline; people pay it. The tax increases of over a $1 billion a year in the budget are going to be paid by real people. Ordinary taxpayers do not care much about where it is coming from. They end up having to pay it.

With respect to the member's second question on the implications of flat tax on the budgetary situation and the impact on taxpayers, I say it comes back to the concern about the total tax load. If we could get spending capped and then down to the point where we could offer tax relief, which is the whole aim of the taxpayers' budget, the total tax load on Canadians under a flat tax system or any other system would be lower than it is under the current system.

Our aim is to deliver genuine tax relief second through tax reform but first through getting the spending down, which is the root cause of high taxes.

The Budget February 28th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his intervention. He puts his finger on the core problem that has to be resolved in the House, I would hope in the course of the budget debate.

After the spending cuts that have been proposed by the minister the sad problem is that we still end up running a $25 billion deficit at the end of 1997. The federal debt is over $600 billion and the interest payments on that debt are over $50 billion.

If members would work through the consequences of those higher interest costs on the rest of the social spending, particularly the social programs, they would find that does more damage to the social services network than virtually anything that has ever been proposed by anybody in terms of spending reductions.

The taxpayers' budget we presented endeavoured to get the deficit down more quickly so that the debt stops growing and this bleeding off of social program spending through interest payments ceases.

I honestly submit to the House that if people would compare those two, the pain of the cuts to get the deficit down more quickly versus the pain that will come if nothing is done and those programs are all eroded by higher interest costs, they would find it would be more advisable, more saleable to the electorate and more acceptable to Canadians to hit the Reform target of deficit elimination in three years rather than the minister's target of cut the deficit in half by 1997.

The Budget February 28th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, I rise to address the budgetary policy of the government as contained in the budget presented to the House yesterday. In doing so I wish to approach the budget not so much from the perspective of an opposition party, but more from the perspective of the people whose personal and collective interests are affected by the budget.

On behalf of Canadians, Reformers will be subjecting the budget to four major tests. The first is the employment test. Does the budget address the needs of the unemployed or underemployed in the country? The second is the social security test. Does the budget address the needs of the recipients of government services, in particular, social services? The third is the fiscal test. Does the budget meet the fiscal expectations of those putting up the money, the lenders that are being asked to put up over $30 billion to cover the government's overdraft and the long-suffering taxpayers who are asked to put up almost $120 billion a year? Finally there is a character test. Does the budget demonstrate the qualities of honesty, courage, fairness, leadership and integrity which Canadians have a right to expect from their government?

My colleagues will be applying these tests to the budget in greater detail than I, but let me give a summary of the results.

The finance minister says the budget meets the partisan goals of the Liberal red book and its timid fiscal target of getting the deficit down toward $25 billion by the year 1997. While a few observers and commentators may be gullible enough to accept the red book and the 3 per cent goal as acceptable measuring sticks, at the end of the day the vast majority of Canadians will not.

If this budget is measured against the interests of the unemployed and underemployed Canadians who want real jobs, it betrays those interests because it contains no real long term stimulus to private sector job creation.

If this budget is measured against the interests of the recipients of government services who desire real social security, it betrays those interests because it does nothing to halt the diversion of funds away from social programs into massive interest payments on a growing federal debt.

If this budget is measured against the interests of Canadians who want a solid plan for deficit elimination, it betrays those interests because it only plans to get the deficit to $24 billion by the year 1997.

If this budget is measured against the interests of the long-suffering taxpayer who wants no tax increases and spending reductions which lead to tax relief, it betrays those interests because it takes over $1 billion more per year out of the pockets of taxpayers and lays the foundations for future tax increases.

In short, when this budget is measured against the public's interests; the interests of workers, the interests of those who depend on social services, the interests of investors, lenders and taxpayers, it betrays those interests at every turn. It is a betrayal of trust of the same order as the Mulroney and Wilson budgets of 1984-85 which missed the narrow window of opportunity to balance the budget, which comes only once to a new government, never to return again.

In delivering this sad commentary, I do not wish to be unfair to the Minister of Finance, nor overly disparage his efforts to bring in a better and more honest budget. If the Minister of Finance and his department had been given more freedom and support by the Prime Minister, they might have come clean with Canadians on what deficit spending is doing to destroy social programs. They would have made the target of the budget deficit elimination, not merely deficit reduction. However, the Prime Minister discouraged such frankness and directness and the minister acquiesced.

I believe that if the Minister of Human Resources Development had not utterly failed to provide a blueprint for reforming social spending, the finance minister might have presented the

combination of real social reforms and spending reductions. The Minister of Human Resources Development both undermined and failed the Minister of Finance.

I believe that if the Liberal caucus did not contain so many members that cling to obsolete notions, such as the idea that government spending is stimulative, such as the idea that Canada has a revenue problem, not a spending problem; if the finance minister did not have these living millstones around his neck he might have done better.

To be fair we do not lay the blame for this budgetary betrayal of the public interest entirely on the Minister of Finance. We believe the blame should rest even more heavily on the Minister of Human Resources Development, on the soft-headed wing of the Liberal caucus and on the Prime Minister.

As a constructive contribution to this debate, my colleagues will be applying the other tests of the budget which I have already mentioned. For example, they will apply an employment test to the budget to show how it hurts, not helps, one million unemployed and over two million underemployed in the country. As a constructive alternative they will also offer Reform's 5-R jobs program which relies on deficit elimination and tax relief to stimulate long term private sector job creation.

The 5-R jobs program is based on the premise that a dollar left in the hands of a taxpayer or a consumer or an investor or a business person creates more jobs than that dollar in the hands of a bureaucrat, a lobbyist or a politician.

My colleagues will apply a social security test to the budget to show the damage it does, especially in the long run, to those dependent on the big federal social security programs: OAS, UI, established programs funding and the Canada assistance plan. As a constructive alternative we will offer Reform's vision of a more secure society through the empowerment of individuals and communities and the decentralization of social program delivery to the levels of government closest to the people.

My colleagues will show how by applying these principles we can get more social security for more Canadians out of $140 billion in combined federal and provincial social spending than the current government is going to get out of $155 billion in combined social spending. The Reform alternative to the welfare state is based on the premise that a dollar left in the hands of a mother, a father, a family, a student, a senior, a front line care worker is more productive, more conducive to social security than that dollar in the hands of a distant federal government.

Finally, my colleagues will apply fiscal tests to the budget to show how it undermines the confidence of taxpayers and lenders. As a constructive alternative they will put forward the premises and calculations of our taxpayers' budget presented on February 21 which achieves deficit elimination in three years through spending cuts alone without tax increases.

While we are extremely critical of both the character and content of the budget, in the name of workers, recipients of services, taxpayers and citizens, unlike the Bloc and others, we have a constructive alternative to offer. All of those are contained in the taxpayers' budget which we invite the media, the public and members of the House to compare and contrast with the Liberal budget.

Today I again repeat my challenge to the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance. We want a fair, no holds barred, two on two debate; the government's budget versus the taxpayers' budget. Let us pick a night sometime in the next week or 10 days-to save money let us have it in this Chamber-but let us leave our cheering sections at home, just five people on the floor; the Prime Minister, the finance minister, myself and one of our finance critics and yourself, Mr. Speaker. Let us have only two documents on the table; the Liberal budget and the taxpayers' budget. Let the TV cameras roll and let our members, the media and the public view the exchange. Let us have a real debate and a cross-examination of the fundamental assumptions behind these two budgetary alternatives and the directions in which they lead. The issue to be decided is nothing less than which course of action will get the fiscal affairs of the federal government in order for the 21st century.

As I said at the beginning, one supreme test must be applied to this budget above all others. That is the character test. Does the budget demonstrate the qualities of honesty, courage, fairness, leadership and integrity which Canadians have a right to expect from their government? Again, sad to say this budget fails the character test.

In the red book the government ignored and downplayed the damage that the deficit and the debt are doing to private sector job creation and continued to insist for months that government overspending, such as through the infrastructure program, was the key to job creation. It simply lacked the courage and honesty to tell Canadians that it was high deficit, debt and tax levels which were undermining the private sector's ability to create jobs for hundreds of thousands of unemployed Canadians.

Now in the budget the government continues down the same path. It ignores, downplays, even attempts to deny and cover up the irreparable damage that government overspending, the debt and the deficit, are doing to social security programs on which so many Canadians depend.

Under the budget plan the government will add over $100 billion to the federal debt. Interest payments on the federal debt

will rise to over $50 billion a year, or almost one-third of the federal budget by the end of this Parliament.

Diverting taxpayers' dollars into paying $50 billion a year in interest diverts billions of dollars directly away from spending on all other government programs, in particular social spending, since social spending is the largest part of the federal spending program.

In other words, the greatest and most real threat to social programs in Canada is not supposed and imaginary attacks by fiscal reformers, it is the chronic, unrelenting, systematic failure of a Liberal government to get the deficit to zero as quickly as possible.

Until I see an addendum to the budget that clearly projects the impact of rising debt and interest costs on social spending, the impact on seniors, on people on social assistance, on people dependent on the federal government for health care, the budget is lacking in honesty and courage. It is a cowardly and dishonest budget that fails the character test at the point where it is most needed.

This brings me to the equally important character traits of fairness and leadership. The finance minister calls for Canadians to make sacrifices in order to reduce overspending and the deficit. The budget signals future cuts, for example, in unemployment benefits, seniors' benefits, and cuts to social transfers to the provinces. He insists that the spending cuts and tax increases he will impose are guided by fairness.

As the minister has said, however, the devil is in the details. Fairness and leadership call for those at the top of the government to make the first and most visible sacrifice. For this Parliament and this government that means relinquishing the gold plated MPs' pension plan which so many Canadians find obscene and which they regard as the cardinal example of excessive spending at the top of government.

What does the government do? A few days before the budget it brings out a slightly modified MP pension plan-we call it trough light-which still offers MPs the most generous pension plan in the country. It contains an opting out clause directed to first time MPs, but it offers millions and millions of dollars in pension benefits to senior ministers and senior backbenchers beyond the wildest dreams of ordinary Canadians. It declares this is pension reform. It declares this is equity and fairness. It declares this is real cost cutting when in fact it is not.

This failure to practice with respect to the MPs' pension plan the principles that the government espouses in the budget points to a flaw in the character of the government.

There is no way in which a government member can vote for the budget with its spending reductions and tax increases and vote for the gold plated MP pension plan at the same time, without undermining the integrity of the government itself. So what will it be?

It is the intention of Reform MPs to opt out of the MP pension plan. We call upon every other member of the House to do likewise. "Opt out or get out" will be the cry in the constituencies. It is a cry which must be respected if fairness and leadership by example and integrity are to be restored to Parliament and any budget it endorses.

In conclusion, some observers of the budget will say that it brings Canada one step closer to hitting the wall, one step closer to a crisis of confidence on the part of lenders that will drive the dollar through the floor, the interest rates through the roof, grind the economic recovery to a halt and begin the complete unravelling of the social safety net.

Some will say that the failure of the government to eliminate the deficit now, when the economy is in relatively good shape, will leave Canadians virtually defenceless in the face of an economic downturn.

Some will say that the cuts necessary to balance the budget, when they inevitably come, will now be much deeper and much more destructive because the government lacked the courage to act now. Only time will tell.

However, on behalf of Canadians everywhere-taxpayers, employers, employees, consumers, recipients of services and citizens-I say to the Prime Minister, to the Minister of Finance, to every member of the Liberal cabinet, to every member of the Liberal caucus and to every senior civil servant who had anything to do with the preparation of the budget: If the country hits the wall, if the country's social programs hit the wall because of what the budget failed to do, they will be held personally, professionally and politically accountable for the consequences come hell or high water.

I move:

That the amendment be amended by striking out all the words after the word "budget" and adding thereafter the following words:

"for its failure to eliminate the deficit quickly and decisively within the life of this Parliament and by asking future generations to bear the cost of fiscal irresponsibility".

Members Of Parliament Pensions February 27th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, to date at least 48 of the 52 Reform MPs in this House have confirmed they will opt out of the MP pension plan.

If the minister cannot tell the House which ministers will be opting out can he at least give us an idea of the number of members of the Liberal caucus who will be opting out of this pension plan?

Members Of Parliament Pensions February 27th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, the test of the courage of these remarks is not whether they make sense in this House but whether they will make sense in the constituencies.

The Canada pension plan, according to the government's own report, will be wiped out in 20 years unless there are significant increases in contributions. While Canadians' pensions are being put at risk the financial security of senior ministers and MPs is assured by this pension plan-business as usual at the MP pension trough.

How can the minister stand here today knowing that many ordinary Canadians are in danger of getting no Canada pension at all and still defend pension provisions for senior ministers like the Deputy Prime Minister who will be collecting millions in retirement?

Members Of Parliament Pensions February 27th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, today, budget day, represents a test of character for the government. Today we would like to find out if this government has the courage to reduce spending and the courage to hold the line on tax increases. More important, we will find out whether it has the courage to lead by example.

If the budget contains significant spending cuts it is obvious to Canadians that the first of these must be made at the top with respect to MPs' pensions.

My question is for the President of the Treasury Board. Which members of the cabinet will be setting the example of spending cuts at the top by opting out of the obscene MPs' pension plan?

Pensions Of Members February 24th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, the only commendable feature of the revamped scheme is that it will allow MPs who put principles ahead of pork to opt out. My colleagues and I are opting out of this obscene plan. I trust we will be joined by the Minister of Finance, by the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, by the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, by the Minister of Human Resources Development and by the Deputy Prime Minister.

Who will be the first to follow the Reform Party's lead and renounce their gold plated MP pension plan? Will the minister answer the question now by rising to his or her feet?

Pensions Of Members February 24th, 1995

Mr. Speaker, the public will hardly be impressed by a 33 per cent reduction in a plan that is four to five times richer than any other plan in the country.

The fact is that the minister had to abandon real MP pension reform under pressure from senior colleagues who wanted to preserve most of the excessive features of the old plan. We now have a two-tier MP pension plan. One for the fat pack and one for the rest: trough regular and trough light.

Will the minister eliminate this two-tier system in favour of a plan that applies equally to all members of the House?