Ralph Goodale

[Supply, June 4th, 2002]

Madam Chairman, this probably does not relate directly to a program or a service provided by my department, but it does relate to a very important principle, and that is the principle of inclusiveness.

We live in a country that occupies the second largest land mass on the face of the earth. We run from sea to sea to sea, from the same latitude as the state of California to the North Pole. This is a huge land, a very diverse, far-flung land. There are parts of it that can sometimes feel pretty remote and pretty left out simply because of the sheer force of distance.

I take the member's representation seriously and I think it applies to every minister in our government. We need to work hard in every way we can, discharging our responsibilities so that people in the northern part of Canada in Yukon or Nunavut or the Northwest Territories can feel plugged into their nation and wanted and very much respected by their nation.

We do a lot of work on behalf of DIAND and indeed on behalf of the Department of National Defence in terms of northern Canada. One of the interesting activities being undertaken by Defence Construction Canada has to do with remedial work on the DEW line, which is obviously extremely important in the member's part of Canada.

[Supply, June 4th, 2002]

Madam Chairman, first, I take the hon. gentleman's point about the apparent conflict sometimes between control issues on one side and service issues on the other side. Obviously our objective here is to provide the very best possible service to Canadians. We want to do that in a timely way, but we also need to make absolutely sure that the public interest and the public trust are being respected.

As we have discussed quite amply this evening, in relation to some aspects of one particular program within Communications Canada there have been some problems in years gone by. Those problems have quite rightly raised public concerns and we are now in the process of addressing those public concerns, one of the steps being the freeze that I applied to any future activity as of last Monday.

I recognize that there are community groups and organizations across the country that would have been anticipating certain funding support, which is now being held up. That may well be causing them some local problems. I am very sensitive to that. I will try to arrive at any conclusions I can with respect to the moratorium as rapidly as possible to make sure that if there are difficulties caused at a local level they are kept to a minimum.

However, at the same time I want to be able to assure the general public that there is that level of transparency, accountability and value for taxpayers' money that Canadians have every right to expect. It is a tough balancing act in terms of delivering on expectations but doing so in a way that respects the public trust. I will try to come out with the right balance at the end of the day in being sensitive to all the requirements that are there.

In terms of northern gas, there is not an immediate direct and obvious role that the Department of Public Works and Government Services would play, except in terms of supporting other departments. Obviously in terms of northern gas there will be important roles to be played by the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, the Department of Natural Resources, the Department of Human Resources Development and a range of other departments. My department would naturally be called upon from time to time to provide support services to them. I want to assure the hon. member that whenever we are called upon to deliver on behalf of other government departments we will do our very best to respond promptly.

[Supply, June 4th, 2002]

These renovations are important, Madam Chairman. As I think all members know, the government has approved a long term vision and plan for the parliamentary precinct and we are now proceeding with its implementation. It is to be phased in gradually over a period of time. I think that all members probably well recognize the need to modernize the parliamentary buildings and also to preserve their character and their heritage in the context of our democratic traditions.

I would note particularly, as members will know if they at any point cross the Hall of Honour just down the way, that renovations to the Library of Parliament are proceeding as anticipated. Additionally, there have been announcements with respect to a new building within the parliamentary precinct, known broadly at the moment as the Bank Street building.

All of this fits within the phased in plan that will run over a period of 25 years to try to ensure that the integrity of these facilities is preserved for future generations.

One thing that is important is to make sure that this work is done sensitively, with a lot of consultation with a lot of Canadians. These are premises that do not belong to any one of us. They belong to all of us and to generations yet to come, therefore the consultative process to make sure that this is done right is extremely important.

I am very pleased that my predecessors have announced the creation of a parliamentary precinct oversight advisory committee, which is under the very distinguished chairmanship of the Hon. John Fraser and includes a number of other distinguished Canadians, including Mr. Denis Desautels and others, who will have the responsibility of overseeing this process and ensuring that such consultations as are necessary are appropriately undertaken.

In this matter as with all others we want to be transparent, we want to be open and we want to make sure that the job gets done right, not just for us who happen to be here temporarily now, but for generations of Canadians yet to come.

[Supply, June 4th, 2002]

Madam Chairman, I think this is a useful question to indicate that the activities of Communications Canada are considerably more than simply the sponsorship program. If one were to judge only by the volume of commentary, one would think that Communications Canada does nothing but that. I do not mean to diminish the seriousness of the problems. Those problems are serious and they do need to be corrected, but there are other important activities that Communications Canada undertakes.

The 1-800-O Canada toll free telephone line receives more than 1.3 million calls from Canadians per year. The Canada website has thus far received more than 44 million page requests from Canadians across the country. The fairs and exhibits program has posted more than 1.2 million visitors in the last year alone. The list goes on about what Communications Canada does.

I would note, in relation to those three things in particular, the 1-800 number, the website and the fairs and exhibits program, those are specific initiatives that extend into rural Canada and reach rural Canadians in a very sensitive way.

I would also note that in the market surveys we conduct in order to try to assess the needs of Canadians, there is a deliberate effort to make sure that rural Canadians are explicitly included in the sample. We want to make sure that we are not just hitting an urban audience but that we are also reaching and understanding a rural Canadian audience. That is a part of the rural lens obligation that every department of government has.

Our colleague in the House, the Secretary of State for Rural Development, has drilled it into the head of every cabinet minister that the rural lens is not just a theoretical proposition but that it is something real and that we have to look at our policies through that lens. We are making use of the tools that have been provided by Communications Canada.

We are also making good use of technology. Government online, for example, e-government, establishing the e-business relationship between government and Canadians. That is particularly useful to those Canadians who do live in rural and remote locations where there is not a Government of Canada office just across the street or around the corner. Technology helps to eliminate some of the distance and some of the isolation factors.

As I have said in response to questions from other members earlier tonight, coming from a province like Saskatchewan I have a particular interest in making sure that we overcome those feelings of exclusion sometimes, of distance and of being left out. A department like Public Works and Government Services Canada can help build a sense of inclusiveness among all Canadians in the way we do business in every corner of this country and in the way for example we handle our contracting. We make sure, through our online tendering processes, that all qualified Canadian bidders, whether they are in downtown Ottawa, in the remotest corner of Yukon or in some part of rural Saskatchewan, have a part to play and have the means by which they can engage in what the Government of Canada has to offer.

Closing on this topic I would just point out that there is an international rating firm called Accenture that publishes periodic reports about how well different governments around the world are doing in relation to their e-government activities. I am pleased to say that out of 23 countries in the latest Accenture report, Canada ranked first in the progress that we have made with respect to e-government, reaching out to Canadians whether they are in downtown Toronto or in Tuktoyaktuk.

[Supply, June 4th, 2002]

Madam Chairman, three specific contracts were found to be questionable. The auditor general was called in to examine those contracts. She provided an ample report on what she found deficient with respect to those matters and she indicated that two further follow up actions would be taken. First, she said that she would refer the matter to the RCMP, which she did and which was entirely proper and appropriate in the circumstances; and second, she indicated that she would conduct a government wide review with respect to advertising, polling and sponsorship. The activity is underway to ensure that the proper standards are adhered to.

In this particular case we know of three problem areas where the appropriate vigorous action has been taken. I want to assure the House and certainly assure this hon. member that if there is any evidence of a problem that exists elsewhere, the appropriate action will be taken promptly.

[Supply, June 4th, 2002]

Madam Chairman, again the hon. gentleman seems to be ignoring the multi-layered approach that we are taking to deal with this problem. We have referred matters to the RCMP. The auditor general is conducting a government wide audit with respect to advertising and sponsorships. The President of the Treasury Board is reviewing the management framework and the government system with respect to advertising sponsorships and polling. My own department is conducting its own internal review. We are pursuing this issue on all fronts to make sure that no stone is left unturned.

Where there is conduct that does not live up to government standards, that conduct will be remedied. If it goes beyond simply mismanagement or mistakes, if it borders upon that which requires legal proceedings, then the appropriate references to the appropriate authorities will be taken. The proof of that is that we have already made those references.

[Supply, June 4th, 2002]

Madam Chairman, there are two things.

First of all, we have obviously not accepted the quality of that previous work. That is why the auditor general was invited to conduct an audit. That is why all of the subsequent steps have been taken. The government does not accept or condone work that is clearly substandard or deficient in the variety of ways that have been identified.

The other departments of government that have relationships with advertising agencies are undoubtedly making sure that the quality of work delivered to them is up to the standard they would expect and all within specification.

[Supply, June 4th, 2002]

Madam Chairman, where circumstances arise that raise questions with respect to the legal propriety of certain conduct, the appropriate authorities to pursue the investigation are the police authorities.

When issues came to the attention of the auditor general, she made her observations from an audit point of view, and she also took some other action which is to refer matters to the RCMP.

The RCMP are in the best position to determine what further action should be taken. They are the police. That is their job.

[Supply, June 4th, 2002]

Madam Chairman, let me read the third paragraph in the report of the auditor general:

It must be noted that our conclusions about the management practices and actions related to these three contracts refer to those of public servants. The rules and regulations we refer to in this report are those that apply to public servants; they did not apply to the contractor. Consequently, our conclusions cannot and do not pertain to any practices that Groupaction followed.

[Supply, June 4th, 2002]

Madam Chairman, maybe the hon. gentleman would have the simple courtesy of waiting for the end of the answer.

I would simply say that I am happy to receive other legal views. If the hon. gentleman has specific allegations that he would like to advance, I would be glad to have them.

The concerns in the case immediately before us were identified by the auditor general. The auditor general made the specific references that she made, as was the exactly proper thing for her to do.

If other people have other information that should be drawn to my attention, I invite them to do so and I will take the appropriate action.