Rob Anders

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals have touched on this and I am going to touch on it again, and I thank the hon. member for touching on it one more time, the idea of whether something is an investment or a tax hike.

When the government raises gasoline taxes I do not consider that an investment, in respect to the hon. member. When it cuts back the age at which somebody can contribute to an RRSP before it converts over to a registered retirement income fund from 71 to 69, that is not an investment either. When it cuts back the over-contribution rate of $8,000 or the amount one can over-contribute, that is not an investment either. When it taxes the worldwide pension income of people, which has now been three times, aside from C-2 and C-10, that is not an investment either. No, I do not think any of these things are investments. They are tax hikes.

The question comes up: What does the government use it for? Where is all the money going from these tax hikes? I look across the way and I see a whole field of members who have taken the MP pension plan and do not allow others to opt out. I look around on this side of the bench and I see people who stood on principle and have given up the trough. The government has people over there who will be collecting millions of dollars in MP pensions.

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, when there is bad legislation a party should oppose it. Unfortunately in this case we did not see all the flaws in the bill.

There is a direct relationship with what is happening today. The government approached the opposition parties and said “It is a minor technical amendment. Other people want it. The seniors want it. The Americans want it. Everybody wants it. Trust us”. We made the mistake of trusting the Liberal government. However, I am not going to make it again.

That is why today the Reform Party stands opposed to this bill. No, we are not going to go along with kid gloves with the Liberal government with respect to a tax increase on the backs of seniors, unlike the Tories who just this morning were fawning over what a great bill this was, over how it had so many arrangements with other governments and how it ended tax duplication so that the Liberals could raise taxes. Liberal, Tory, same old story.

We are opposed to it. They were a little confused about it this morning, we are not.

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, sitting on this side of the House it is often difficult to get into a Liberal's mind and understand why they do what they do. One thing I do know about Liberals is that they are very shortsighted. They see only as far as the next election. It is funny to note that Bill C-2 to raise the CPP tax and Bill C-10 to take money off the backs and to break the backs of seniors receiving social security benefits from the United States both happened right after the election.

It makes me think. Other governments in the past have had a certain practice of bringing through their most draconian tax increasing legislation right after an election in the hopes that taxpayers will forget the wrongs done them. But it will not happen because these things have long tails, very long coattails indeed.

When you raise the CPP tax from 5.85% to 9.9% over a period of a few years, taxpayers will not forget it because it is still coming off their paycheques. Mark my words, those pensioners who have felt a 70% tax bite increase by this government will not forget that come election day.

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, once again we continue on the saga of Bill C-10, the Liberal tax hike on those people who receive social security benefits from the United States.

I would like to read portions of a letter from Olive E. Smith, one of those seniors who will be particularly hard done by in terms of the changes with Bill C-10 and all the others who are involved with Canadians asking for social security equality. She says that because of the raise in inclusion the Liberals are hoisting upon her, it will result in a whopping 70% increase from what she was paying previously. She begs me here. She says “Stand up to this Liberal tax grab and persuade the finance minister that this is neither fair nor moral”. On her behalf and on behalf of others who are involved with Canadians asking for social security equality, I am going to do that.

First, these are people who cannot go back to work. They cannot make up this shortfall any other way. These are people who planned for their retirement at a 50% rate of inclusion and the government wants to jack it up to 85% so it can get its precious tax dollars to spend on its precious programs and it is doing it on the backs of these people. The government should be ashamed.

I would also like to talk about how many people this affects. Eight five thousand Canadian residents receive U.S. social security. It actually affects about 100,000 people when we take into account those across the border and all the intricacies of the plan. This affects a lot of people. It is not even a question of numbers. If it affected 10,000 people or a million people, the thing is that it is just plain wrong to go ahead and hike the taxes of these people who can little afford it.

Imagine losing 25.5% of your total income when you have already barely been surviving and have been forced to move if you are old, sick or handicapped. These Liberals gloat about how they have been able to cut down the deficit but they have done it with 36 tax increases. Bill C-2, the CPP tax hike which will bring in $10 billion, was their 37th tax increase. This is their 38th tax increase and it is being done on the backs of seniors.

What are they going to do about those people who will choose to leave this country rather than live under conditions like that? What about the job spin-off as a result? They do not express any concern about that.

I would also like to look at their initial reaction when this whole issue first reared its ugly head, when they passed a bad law. And now they are coming before the House to try and rectify it. Indeed it is not a rectification. Two wrongs do not make a right. If there is a screw up in the first place and the Liberals then come back to the House to beg for a tax increase, they are not improving the situation at all. That is exactly what the Liberals across the way are doing.

The Liberals' first reaction when seniors told them how this would impact on them was they said that the seniors did not understand the changes. This from local MPs in the ridings particularly affected, those surrounding Windsor. They said they did not understand.

The second knee-jerk reaction on behalf of the Liberals was to blame the Americans. The third was to blame the previous government and say that it was Brian Mulroney and the Conservatives who had done them harm. Fourth, we hear today that they are blaming the seniors and how these people are getting some sort of unequal treatment and they have to be taxed the same as everyone else and pay more.

That is the way it went. First the Liberals did not know what they had done. Then they blamed the Americans. Then they blamed the previous government. And now they are blaming the seniors.

I would also like to quote the Minister of Finance. In his letter he says, “I can understand that some recipients are not in favour of the new arrangement since it means that after 1997 they may have to pay more tax than they have in the past. I believe that it will ensure that the tax system treats everyone fairly.” He admits that it is a tax increase and then he has the gall to go on and say that it is fair.

By that logic the Liberals would say that the people who are paying 17% or 22% federal income tax should all be paying the top progressive rate of 29% because that is fair, there cannot be different rates of taxation. That is Liberal fairness, Liberal tax equity. That is a joke but unfortunately the seniors who are being hurt the most by this are not the ones who are laughing. It is the Liberal MPs across the way who are collecting their gold plated pensions. It is a back door tax grab.

The Liberals talked about how in 1995 they had to make changes and now in 1997 because they did not think it through very well the first time, they are coming back begging the indulgence of the House to give this an easy passage the second time around. I reiterate, two wrongs do not make a right. If they messed it up the first time and have the gall to come back the second time to the House and say they have something better but they are sneaking in a tax hike through the back door, that does not make it right.

What about those who fall through the cracks? What about those people? The Liberals talk about refunds because they recognize they have really gouged these people heavily. What about those people who have died? What about those people who have moved? As a result of those two incidents, either death or moving, those people will fall through the cracks and those rebates that are owed them, their families and their estates will not be paid. The government will keep that. We can bet our bottom dollar on that and the finance minister will gloat in this House over the results on something like that.

When the government first brought through its changes it resulted in roughly $2,000 in increases and now this time around it is probably average out around $1,000 in increases and it calls that revenue neutral.

Local MPs in Windsor refer to this whole plan as revenue neutral. How does $2,000 out of your pocket and then another $1,000 out of your pocket for a total of $3,000 out of your pocket make it revenue neutral? That is a joke.

I want to reiterate that this is the 38th tax increase that this government has brought forward since it took power in 1993. It is not the first time it has attacked pensions. It has done it on numerous occasions before.

The government has attacked people in terms of their withdrawal time from RRSPs, moving it down to the age of 69. It is going to bring in at the top in any given year $45 million just off that. That is another one of its attacks on pensions and seniors in this country.

Then when it reduced the $8,000 RRSP overcontribution for those who were hoping to collect and use their RRSPs to bolster their retirement income, that was another $10 million tax on pensions.

When we add all these things up, with Bill C-2 to increase the Canada pension plan contributions to nearly 10%, and with what the Liberals are doing now to try to sneak this through in Bill C-10, they do not like old people, they do not like young people and I do not know who they like. They like the Minister of Finance but not much else.

I am going to go through a few questions that I think the Liberals should have asked when they were putting this bill forward and when they were considering it. First, who wants it? Do the seniors who are having a tax increase off this want to see this bill come forward? No. It is the finance minister who does but certainly not the seniors.

How much is it going to cost? That is another question that we have to level at the Liberals today. If it affects only 10,000 people with $1,000 each, that is at the bare minimum $10 million. If it affects 85,000 people at $2,000 each, that is $170 million.

Once again we have had no production here in the House today in terms of how much money this is going to cost, but nickels and dimes, millions and billions and when we add it up, pretty soon it is real money and it is on the backs of the seniors.

Does it solve the problem? The problem was that the Liberals put through a bad bill in 1995. Once again they are putting through a bad bill as a tax hike. They complained about double taxation. Instead they have replaced it with higher taxation. Does that in any way solve that problem, the problem being seniors who are having a tough time meeting ends meet and who are having a tax foisted on them when they are prepared for only a 50% rate of inclusion?

Would it pass a referendum? Would it pass popular consent? Would it carry the consent or the will of the people? Would it pass the judgment of fellow citizens? Does it have democratic consent? If the Liberals put this to a referendum of seniors who are affected by it, it would lose overwhelmingly. Indeed most Canadians would not vote for a tax increase.

The Liberals have often talked today about how taxes are investments. How wrong can they be? Taxes are not investments. Whether it is a tax to hoist up $10 billion out of the Canada pension plan or whether it is a tax that brings in tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars in terms of those seniors who are collecting social security benefits from the United States, taxes are not investments. The gall of this government to do all these things in the name of tax fairness; there is no fairness in a tax hike or a tax increase.

It might be more principled for the government to lower some other seniors taxes. It would be principled if it came out and talked about the tax decreases that it promised in the election. Is it going to renege on that in the same way it reneged on its promise to scrap, kill and abolish the GST? Who can trust the Liberals? The seniors can't. The young people can't. We cannot buy their election promises because they break them right, left and centre.

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I would like the Liberal member opposite to turn his frame of mind if he would to those people who are being affected by this.

Imagine that in a sense he had retired based on the 50% rate of inclusion, that he had planned his retirement based on that understanding and then all of a sudden, watch out, here comes the Liberal government with a tax hike that is going to move that up to 85%, a 70% increase. Would he feel somewhat similar to all those taxpayers who were surprised by the breaking of the GST election promise? Would he feel wronged in the same way as the people who felt wronged about the GST and in the same way that retired people who are receiving social security from the United States feel wronged about it jumping to 85% from 50%?

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I wonder how much longer the not so Conservatives think they can both suck and blow on the issue of taxes.

On one hand, they sometimes say that they are not in favour of a tax hike. On the other hand they want to get the money. I have heard this continually, whether it was a meeting of their leader along with other Progressive Conservatives leaders in Atlantic Canada talking about how they wanted more money as well.

I think we have to come to a firm determination that they are either opposed to taxes or they are in favour of taxes. They cannot suck and blow at the same time. You cannot ask for programs but then say you do not like taxes. Where do they stand on this?

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I address my question to the member from the not so Conservatives.

It turns out that the party has in its later thoughts this afternoon decided that they are now opposed to the bill. I congratulate them on that.

Since they are not voting in favour of this tax increase, how is the member from Brandon—Souris going to get the money to pay for some of the money he was begging from the government in question period for his constituency in Manitoba? He was bellyaching about not enough money being given to them. How is he going to pay for that?

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to address the speech just made by the not so Conservatives.

This morning their member for West Nova stood before the House and talked about how Bill C-10 was something good and that they were supporting the technical amendment that the government was putting on seniors. Later this afternoon the member for Brandon—Souris stood and said that they are in favour of it. Indeed, at the beginning of the day it was supposed to be the finance critic for the Conservative Party who was to stand and say they were opposed to it.

Now we have had one speech in favour of Bill C-10 and one speech against it. Where do they stand on this? Are Conservatives in favour of a tax hike or not?

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the member for his speech in opposition to the government legislation. I will also ask a question. The socialist to my far left talked about his opposition to the harmonized sales tax. I wonder if he could muse out loud for Canadians his thoughts on wealth taxes.

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a comment about the government since it was elected in 1993, about how it claims to have done such a good job with taxes and about how taxes have not gone up.

Government members seem to forget that the tax on life insurance premiums were extended. At the low end it brought in an extra $120 million a year and at the high end $210 million. They seem to forget that the lifetime capital gains exemption was eliminated, which at its high point brought in $415 million in a given year.

They seem to forget deductions for business meals were reduced, which resulted at its high in $275 million more to the government. They forget the changes to the tax treatment of securities which resulted in $60 million more per year. They forgot about the air transportation tax which resulted in $41 million in its highest year. They forgot about the accelerated capital cost allowances and the $45 million it brought in, in its highest year. The excise tax on gasoline brought in $500 million. The excise tax on tobacco increased by $65 million per year.

They forgot about the reduction on the RRSP overcontribution which brought in $10 million per year. They forgot about the world income tax of non-resident pensions that brought in $10 million per year. They forgot about the RRSP withdrawal age dropping down to 69, which brought in $45 million. They forgot about another increase on tobacco that brought in $100 million.

They forgot about the overseas employment credit which brought in $10 million. They forgot about the EI premiums for part-time workers which brought in $1 billion. They forgot about EI premiums going from 3% to 3.07%, which brought in $400 million, and the bracket creep which resulted in them redefining income and bringing in $3.6 billion more. That was just the last time.

When the increase to the CPP was brought in it was the 37th tax increase. This one is the 38th. How can they possibly say they have reduced or kept taxes decent?