Yves Lessard

[Business of Supply, November 13th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for her question.

In a nutshell, this is about helping businesses in the regions to add value to the resources in their regions via secondary and tertiary processing. We have to support them in their research and development efforts. We have to help them take part in the new economy and break into growth sectors in their regions so they can use their own resources and go to market with finished products. I think that is one very concrete measure we could take.

[Business of Supply, November 13th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague is not playing very nicely here. He knows very well that a tax cut is quite different from a tax credit. A tax credit can be used by businesses, for example, that experience losses, but a tax cut does nothing for businesses not generating profits.

This year, the big winners when it came to tax cuts were the oil companies. Together, they got over $500 million more out of this economic statement, but there is nothing for paper mills and the manufacturing industries. Why? Because they do not generate profits? Now it is clear.

Why is the member playing this game? It is not very nice. I know I must choose my words carefully, but it has to be said. It is not appropriate to say such things.

When he talks about programs created, he is talking about programs that the Conservatives recycled because they had modest results. So they recycled them. They got rid of them only to reinstate them. There is nothing new.

The examples the member gave us have nothing to do with Quebec and are not examples that exist in the manufacturing industry. When a bridge is built or refurbished, this has nothing to do with manufacturing or forestry. That is what he needs to understand. We will eventually get him to see this.

[Business of Supply, November 13th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, first of all I want to congratulate and thank my colleague from Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup for his speech and, of course, for the exceptional work he did when he was our party's critic for human resources and social development, as he is doing now as finance critic.

As for everything else in this House, we always try to show discipline out of respect for our colleagues. I would appreciate it if our colleagues would do the same today out of respect for this House.

Earlier, my colleague clearly showed that this obvious political choice on the part of the Conservative Party is based on the same pillars as those used by the Bush government in the United States. This means that the strength of the economy must come from the military industry and the oil industry, as my colleague so aptly illustrated. Right now, oil is to our economy what EPO is to some athletes who resort to doping. It is the only industry that gives some impetus to the Canadian economy since all other sectors are in trouble, particularly the manufacturing and forestry sectors.

I would say to our colleagues from Quebec in the Conservative party—and I would say the same thing to the Liberals—that, when we, the Bloc Québécois, appear at any meetings or gatherings, people tell us all the time that we look as though we are working very hard. I always tell them that, in the Bloc Québécois, we have to work hard because we are working for 75 members, even though there are only 49 of us. Why? It is because there are federalist party members who are definitely working against the interests of the population, who are primarily concerned about the interests of the powerful, especially the oil companies. It is true. This is about more than just grandstanding.

My colleague said so awhile ago. Look at page 30 of the economic statement. All industrial sectors are there. At present, the only one that gets ongoing financial support from the Canadian government is the oil industry, those I would call the oil barons.

Meanwhile, in Quebec, our economy is based heavily on the manufacturing sector. The manufacturing sector is so crucial that in Quebec there are three times more revenues generated by the manufacturing sector than what Alberta, for example, produces through the oil industry, that is, 536,000 jobs with a payroll of $22 billion.

This is the economic impact the manufacturing sector has in Quebec, a sector that accounts for 90% of international exports. Thus, of the $69 billion in exports, $63 billion comes from the manufacturing sector.

The production of goods generates the most wealth in Quebec. But when measures to revitalize the manufacturing sector are not accepted, this amounts to policies that run completely counter to Quebec’s interests.

To illustrate my remarks, I remind the House that 135,000 manufacturing jobs have been lost in Quebec, or the equivalent of one worker in five, since December 31, 2002. That is 65,000 jobs lost since the arrival of the Conservatives.

This morning our colleagues listed the measures designed to help the manufacturing sector. It would have been far better if they had not put them in place because I get the impression that the measures they have taken have done more harm than good to the manufacturing sector.

One colleague said: “Do not tell us what has happened, tell us what you are going to do.” You made a commitment—and you are doing so again today—to provide help for the manufacturing sector, but you are not announcing anything.

The Bloc’s motion, put forward today, has the advantage of getting each party to take a position to ensure concrete measures with a view to helping the manufacturing sector. In Quebec, some 275,000 jobs have been lost in the manufacturing sector alone.

Let us speak now of the forestry crisis. From May 2002 to April 2005, a total of 10,000 jobs were lost in sawmills and paper mills. That was before 2005. Since April 2005, 21,000 more jobs have been lost. This is the Conservatives. The last MPs elected in byelections were Conservative members. I come back to this often, because it is important for citizens to realize that there are people in this House who got themselves elected on platforms which clearly distorted the truth. The member forRoberval—Lac-Saint-Jean got himself elected by telling the forestry industry that he would help it out, by asking it to bring him to power in this government. His first speech in the House was concerned with idolizing his leader. He spoke about “a certain Albertan”. He used just about every term available to sing his praises, but no terms to describe the measures that had to be taken to give some dignity to the people he represents in his constituency. The only way to give that dignity is to propose concrete measures for the forestry industry.

Those concrete measures can be found in the motion. Here are the solutions: better tax support for research and development, particular attention to the resource regions, investment in development of new products. We could have filled pages with them, but managed to summarize things in a single motion. Will they vote for this today? This is the hour of truth for the people who got themselves elected on the promise to help out these workers and these entrepreneurs.

Earlier, a colleague was talking about employment insurance. We have just proposed concrete measures to help out the industry. However, when workers suffer inevitable job losses, they are willing to go back to work. They are brave people who want to work. So they go and take courses and attend back-to-work sessions, when there are jobs. But what happens when there are none?

They have been beset by two misfortunes. First, they were faced with a Liberal government that destroyed the employment insurance program. Then, the Conservative government went back on its commitments, namely that it would restore the employment insurance program, specifically by setting up an independent employment insurance fund so that the government would stop dipping into the fund for other purposes. However, there are older workers who no longer have an income, who find themselves on welfare, even though they have contributed to employment insurance all their life. The Liberal government eliminated the POWA, and the Conservatives promised to restore it. However they are maintaining the position of the Liberal government.

It is the same thing with employment insurance. At the end of this month, we will have the second hour of debate at third reading of Bill C-269, An Act to amend the Employment Insurance Act (improvement of the employment insurance system). This bill is intended to restore the employment insurance system by providing benefits to people who have contributed to the fund and who are the only ones, with their employers, who have done so. And all the money needed to do this is there. In fact, there is another $3,300,000,000 surplus this year, so we have what is needed to be able to meet the obligations of Bill C-269. And yet the government continues to impose constraints on workers who lose their jobs.

I in turn invite my colleagues to vote for this motion, so that this government will take concrete steps to help these two sectors, manufacturing and forestry, to get out of this crisis.

[Business of Supply, November 13th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate my colleague on his speech presenting his party's position on the Bloc Québécois motion.

In his speech, he described what the implications would be for the companies and industries involved. He also touched on the implications for the people who work there. At the end of the month, the House will begin the second hour of debate on Bill C-269, at third reading. This is one of the measures to help working people who lose their jobs. It is inevitable: there are no more jobs and so they have to fall back on employment insurance.

Our colleague is very familiar with all the damage that the other two parties have done to the employment insurance program.

Could my hon. colleague tell us what his position is on the royal recommendation that the government has to provide to the bill on the employment insurance program so that it can be voted on at third reading? These changes are needed to help people who are unemployed.

[Business of Supply, November 13th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, based on the commitment the member for Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean just made, I understand that he will vote in favour of the motion introduced by the member for Trois-Rivières, because that is exactly what is in the motion.

He told us about things that have been done, past programs that have been revived and that have led to job losses.

Can the member for Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, who based his campaign on commitments to the forestry sector, tell me, yes or no, whether he will vote in favour of the motion of our colleague from Trois-Rivières?

[Business of Supply, November 13th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate my colleague from Trois-Rivières on her speech and thank her for introducing this motion, which is particularly appropriate under the circumstances. In Quebec, 240 towns and 100,000 jobs depend on forestry. Between 2001 and 2005, 10,000 jobs were lost. Since then, 25,000 more jobs have been lost, many of those during the Conservatives' time in power.

Right now, I can see the member for Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, who was recently elected because, in his campaign, he took a stand with people in the forestry industry. He promised to fix the problem by persuading his government to adopt measures that would provide jobs to alleviate the crisis in the forestry sector.

I would like to ask my colleague about the Conservative Party's stance on the situation she just described and its refusal to give a royal recommendation to the employment insurance bill.

What should people think of the Conservative policy, which is contrary to the interests of Quebeckers? What should they think of it, given the approach we are adopting this morning?

[Older Workers, October 31st, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, the government's many promises to older workers are just lip service. When it is time to put forward concrete measures, it does very little. After acknowledging the problem in the throne speech and the budget, it completely abandoned older workers in yesterday's economic statement.

Does the Minister of Finance realize that older workers need financial support now and that the message he is sending them is that it is more important for him to help the big oil companies get rich than it is to help older workers who are losing their jobs?

[Business of Supply, October 29th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague is absolutely right, and her question is particularly relevant since it allows me to remind our other colleagues in this chamber that, in Quebec, not only do we feel that we are facing a domineering and paternalistic federalism, but we are convinced that such is the case.

[Business of Supply, October 29th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

My answer is that there are two reasons for that. The Speech from the Throne explains when limits will be placed. First, there will be limits only for new programs, but we know that there will be practically none. Indeed, as I mentioned earlier, all aspects of areas that fall under the jurisdiction of Quebec and the provinces are already covered by existing programs.

Second, there is the issue of reasonable compensation. We know that, for the federal government, reasonable compensation is very different from the real value of the programs.

I will give two examples. This is one reason why I appreciate it when the member focuses on the attitude or the behaviour of the previous government because nothing has changed with this government.

There is a deficit with regard to the upgrading of municipal infrastructures. As unbelievable as it seems, this is due to the fact that the federal government withdrew from that area. And yet it kept the money over the last 12, 13 or 14 years, if not 15 years. It kept the money and did not give it to the provinces so they could pass it on to the cities. This just started happening very recently.

With regard to social housing, it is the same thing. We see surpluses of $5.4 billion that could be used for social housing at a time when there is an acute need in that area. The federal government did not invest in social housing for 15 years but it still kept that money in Ottawa.

These are the reasons why we do not believe the Conservatives. We must be cautious because there is a certain degree of apprehension. It is the Conservatives that created that apprehension by setting out the two conditions I stated earlier.

[Business of Supply, October 29th, 2007]

Mr. Speaker, with supporters like that, our motion will certainly pass. It is obviously well received by some Liberals.

Before getting to the heart of the matter, I would like to tell you that I have the honour of splitting my time with the member for Châteauguay—Saint-Constant.

If we were talking about a football score, we might be talking about 49 to 10. Forty-nine Bloc members and 10 Conservative members. Not a wonderful outcome for them.

Far be it from me to boast about this result. The idea is to rein in the Conservative members who are preening themselves on their 10 members a bit. I would recall that the Liberals once had 74 members in Quebec out of a total of 75. Today, they have 12. Why? Because they did not keep their promises. They showed disrespect for Quebeckers, most notably when they unilaterally patriated the Constitution.

The question of the fiscal imbalance is somewhat similar. In the pact that was made regarding the division of powers between Canada and the provinces, there was a very clear division in terms of the powers and jurisdictions of each of these two levels of government.

I would recall that the motion we have introduced in this House says that having regard to the promise of the present government to eliminate the fiscal imbalance, it cannot be eliminated without the elimination of the federal spending power in areas that fall under the jurisdiction of Quebec and the provinces.

The government will introduce a bill on the federal spending power. If the other provinces want, they can continue to be under the control of the federal government. That is not what Quebec wants. My colleagues said it earlier: what Quebec wants, as unanimously expressed by the National Assembly, is for the federal spending power to be eliminated in relation to areas under Quebec’s jurisdiction, with full financial compensation for any federal program, whether existing or not, and cost-shared or not, which invades Quebec’s areas of jurisdiction.

On the question of the division of responsibilities, the 1867 pact on the division of powers between Ottawa and the provinces was quite simple, in fact, if we look at it in the context of the 19th century. If something related directly to people and how they organized their society, it was under the jurisdiction of Quebec or the provinces. That was the case, for example, for the civil laws, which codified the relationships of people with one another and also the way the society itself was organized, through social programs relating to such things as health care, education, cultural matters and, later, agriculture and the environment.

For the responsibilities of the federal government, if something did not relate directly to people or the internal organization of their society, it could be federalized. Examples include monetary policy, international trade and the general regulation of business and industry. We can see very clear distinctions between the powers of the different levels of government.

In the Speech from the Throne, the Prime Minister repeated a commitment he made during the election campaign, to limit his spending power. It must be recalled that there are two important concepts when it comes to those limits. First, the limits apply to new programs. At present, the federal government subsidizes existing programs in the amount of $54 billion. Those funds have already been committed by the federal government and they compromise the provinces.

Moreover, there is another important distinction. It is stated that the federal government will limit its spending power and that provinces can opt out and receive reasonable compensation. What does reasonable compensation mean? Is it reasonable compensation for the federal government? That would amount to very little, for the reasons I mentioned previously. Indeed, almost no new program could benefit from this measure, since nearly all the programs under provincial responsibility are already covered by the federal government.

Earlier, the minister of the Conservative government referred us to the Séguin commission and its analysis of the federal spending power. However, what she did not say was that the Séguin commission determined that almost all the provincial fields of jurisdiction are currently affected by the intrusion of the federal government into provincial spending power. I rightly pointed out that we are talking about $54 billion.

I could list a number of fields of jurisdiction where federal departments have intruded, in particular, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, the department of Veterans Affairs, some parts of the department of Citizenship and Immigration, the Treasury Board, the Privy Council Office and the department of National Defence. It also affects areas such as economic diversity, the environment and finance, especially taxation. Other intrusions are made by the departments of Industry, Justice and Canadian Heritage and the agencies that report to them, which should be provincial of course. As well, the department of Fisheries and Oceans does not deal only with its own field of jurisdiction but also intrudes into provincial jurisdiction in terms of the environment. The departments of Human Resources and Social Development, Natural Resources, Health, Public Safety, Transport, including Infrastructure Canada, also intrude; and I am only mentioning some of them.

The federal government must make a commitment to respect the unanimous will of the Quebec National Assembly and of all stakeholders across Quebec. The most recent motion on this topic was again adopted unanimously by the National Assembly in June 2002.

In short, it seems to me that the motion before us today is one that should be welcomed by all parties in the House of Commons. It reflects the commitments made by the last two governments, especially the current government. If that is not to be seen as a frivolous commitment, once again deceiving the people of Quebec, we must proceed in the direction of this motion from the Bloc Québécois. It is the only way to correct this very serious injustice towards the provinces.

I repeat, some provinces want to remain under federal control because it is in their interest and is what they want, but that is not what Quebec wants. I, therefore, invite my colleagues in the House of Commons to vote in favour of our motion.