Human Resources committee  I don't know what the final version of this bill might look like, but as it currently stands, from our perspective we believe it will be a violation of ILO convention 87. Obviously, members of the committee are going to consider whatever changes may come forward, and we'll see. But clearly, as we have done in the past, if we believe that the proposed changes are in violation of the ILO, we will submit a complaint to the ILO for them to arbitrate whether or not it's in violation of ILO conventions as such.

Human Resources committee  The current system allows a worker who chooses to sign a union card to basically say they're interested in becoming a member of the union, and for the union to be certified. It's a legitimate process. The only reason we have a voting system is that governments and employers don't trust the worker and the decision they have made in regard to signing a card.

Human Resources committee  There's no evidence, and I repeat, should the committee have such evidence, we'd be more than happy to hear it. There has been no evidence in any form, shape, or way that demonstrated that anybody has been calling for these changes, whether from our side or from the employer's side, in the process of looking at the code, thinking about what's wrong with the code or how we could fix a problem in the code.

Human Resources committee  If I can, Mr. Cuzner, we have a very good system in place. I know people are maybe shocked to hear this, but we have a very good system in the Canada Labour Code structure. Its work has been very effective. Yes, from time to time there will be issues that the parties can reach an agreement on.

Human Resources committee  The 50% plus one is the norm.

Human Resources committee  I think that rather than answering yes or no, I just want to give you my opinion. Different jurisdictions will set a lower threshold, in other words, to meet the revocation process, but clearly it would be the same if there were people who wanted to leave the union. They should be at least on the same process for certification.

Human Resources committee  We've had, up until recently, a fairly robust system in terms of the federal jurisdiction in regard to amendments to the Canada Labour Code, whether it be part I, part II, or part III. In all three of those reviews that have taken place over the past, the congress has been fully engaged with a very broad consultative process that went on for quite a long time.

Human Resources committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. On behalf of the Canadian Labour Congress and its 3.3 million members, we want to thank you for giving us the opportunity to present our views regarding the private member's bill, Bill C-525. The CLC brings together Canada's national and international unions, along with our provincial and territorial federations of labour and our 130 labour councils across the country.

Finance committee  I think on the point Mr. Thomas made, this is one example in a very large public sector. With all the employees, it begs the question as to why that would be the point made here. Listen, we live in a society where none of us is perfect. The reality is there's a process within the government to deal with individuals who are not performing their responsibility.

Finance committee  Without hesitation, I think a freely bargained collective agreement has always been the right approach. The parties are consciously aware of what they're doing, and, more importantly, they make a decision regarding the final outcome of the collective bargaining process based on their ability to appreciate the different interests that need to be taken into consideration.

Finance committee  Well, that was a process. There is no process now. It's a unilateral decision made by the government through the insertion of these changes in the budget bill, and that's not a process. A process requires consultation and discussion with the parties to try to ensure that they appreciate that whatever change you may make to the current regime will improve the labour relations climate that both parties have to operate under.

Finance committee  There are definitions, of course. It's been under the Canada Labour Code—

Finance committee  —and I am very familiar with that. Certainly I think my colleagues can speak directly to the public service in terms of how you designate that.

Finance committee  I was responding to the President of the Treasury Board, who was interviewed on CBC here in Ottawa. When he was asked to describe how he would determine what portion of the workforce will be designated essential, he couldn't answer the question. He said he will decide when the legislation is passed sometime down the road.

Finance committee  I think labour disputes have been at an all-time low across the country, no matter what jurisdiction you're measuring across the country, so these changes are.... From our perspective, it's bizarre in the least to understand what the government is trying to fix regarding these proposed changes.