Public Safety committee  I understand that code very well.

Public Safety committee  You mentioned earlier that you were released. You didn't get the help. You didn't get the treatments you sought. With the way our penal system's working right now—

Public Safety committee  Thank you both for being honest with us.

Public Safety committee  Thank you. I'd like to thank both the Elizabeth Fry Society and the John Howard Society for coming out, but I'd really like to thank both of the other two witnesses, Alia and Lawrence. It takes a lot of nerve to come up here, and congratulations. I think you're giving us a clearer picture of the situation that's really out there.

Public Safety committee  —that Bill C-83 is all about rehabilitating the prisoners. You talked about administrative detention, preventive detention and disciplinary detention. In your experience—and you spoke about your vast experience—you said there's a need for it. I wonder if you can quickly explain to the people why there's a need.

Public Safety committee  Okay, I'll just take the person out of there. Who makes the decision to move people from maximum to medium to minimum?

Public Safety committee  Thank you. Thank you to the witnesses for coming out. On any given day in the federal prisons, what is your average population?

Public Safety committee  Based on some rough stats I have, on any given day in Canada we have 40,147, or approximately 40,200 prisoners. About 36% of them are held in our federal institutions, and about 64% are held in our provincial institutions, which usually means two years less a day. The Liberal government is bringing in Bill C-83, an act to amend the Corrections and Conditional Release Act and another act, and I have two questions for you.

Public Safety committee  The provincial government does not have to follow the guidelines at all here, so their segregation will still probably take place as it's been taking place in the past.

Public Safety committee  Okay. Thank you. As Ms. Sahota mentioned earlier, the cost was up to about $1,269 a day for a person in solitary confinement. In your experience of 30 years—and I think collectively our witnesses today have well over 100 years' experience in the institutional facilities—do you feel there will be a greater cost incurred, per prisoner, than we are incurring currently, just because of the new demographics that are being given to you under Bill C-83?

Public Safety committee  Thank you. I have one further question. In a federal institution, I believe you have maximum security, medium security and minimum security facilities. There's been a lot of talk in the newspapers and a lot of criticism about Terri-Lynne McClintic and her release to a local wellness centre in Saskatchewan.

Public Safety committee  Okay, you have facilities, then, within the correctional institution to deal with severe mental conditions and violent mental—

Public Safety committee  All right, but you haven't really clarified the one thing I was asking. Is there some protection in there for the institution itself to argue its case against the medical professional? What I'm concerned about is the safety of our public employees working in institutions.

Public Safety committee  Okay, thank you. You mentioned that the health care professional is independent. Say this person is not being treated properly in the institution and has to be removed, under the recommendations of the health care professional. Mental health falls under provincial medical legislation.

Public Safety committee  Thank you, Mr. Minister, for being here today. You mentioned during your input earlier the health care professional's independent decision-making. If a health care official visits an inmate once a day and that prisoner is being watched for 20 hours a day, and for four hours under the new act he or she can move around, you're saying that the health care professional has the ability to say that the person should be released or removed from that part of the jail.