Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I'm aware of the legislation that's trying to have policing services declared essential, but there are different levels of policing services at different levels of government. As a citizen, I would appreciate policing services as long as they're done well.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I agree with you that a review should be done by independent bodies. When it comes to urban centres, however, policing is a provincial matter. What I can look at as the federal Auditor General is the program where the RCMP provides services. However, to actually look at the quality of the services would need to be looked at provincially or territorially.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  That's why we highlighted as a finding in our report that money is going unspent. If I compare that to the first hour of this hearing, when talked about housing, there isn't enough money being spent there, but here there is money available. When it comes to ensuring the safety and security of a community, it's important to use those funds as they were intended, and even more so under this program.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I think it's important to recognize the two different agreements here.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  That's correct. If we speak to—

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I can tell you that there are approximately 680 first nations and Inuit communities across the country. We looked at those that are covered by the self-administered program—about 155 communities—and then we looked at those covered by tripartite agreements—

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  As I mentioned earlier, there are a number of communities covered by these two types of agreements, and we did a sample. We visited and talked to certain communities. I'll have to ask Mélanie if she can tell you which communities we actually spoke to. However, it wasn't the community service we were looking at; it was the service provided by the federal government to these communities.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Of course it would increase trust in the police system. We could increase that trust by having true negotiation of tripartite agreements. Right now, as I mentioned, the auto-renewal of agreements is really a barrier to having regular conversations with communities. That's often what we hear when doing our audits.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  It is important to know that there is a history of racism within the justice system and police forces. That's why I would really encourage honest discussions among all parties. At the moment, the RCMP does not sign the agreements. It is therefore important to ensure that the RCMP is aware of the agreements that will be reached, as well as the needs of first nations.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  There were many things that contributed to the funds not being spent, and that is definitely one of them. I don't know if someone has the level of detail by province. I'm sorry; we don't know that, but Public Safety will hopefully be able to provide that answer to you.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I believe there's a much broader staffing issue with the RCMP having enough police officers. It's a great question to ask, should the RCMP be here. They did flag for us that remoteness is obviously an issue when it comes to staffing some of these positions.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  It's important to note that it's not up to the RCMP to transfer those services. Public Safety Canada is responsible for negotiating those agreements. At present, there are approximately 680 first nations communities. There are 36 self-administered agreements, and they cover 150 to 155 first nations communities.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I think it's important to distinguish between the two types of agreements under this program. We looked at self-administered agreements, where indigenous communities are providing their own police services and are just receiving funding. There was much better engagement there. There was a regular need.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I am going to turn to either Jo Ann or Mélanie to add to this. I think the one point I would make, as they gather their thoughts, is that it's about equitable access to funding. Communities are already receiving policing services by virtue of the fact that they live in a province or territory where there are policing services.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  We surveyed some detachments and asked them what they thought the goal was of the main service they should be providing under the indigenous and Inuit policing program versus regular policing services. I'm not going to use the right term, so I apologize to anyone in law enforcement who I'm going to offend, but there are the regular policing services, which are about enforcement and keeping good law and order, and then there is a community-based education and community-focused approach.