Procedure and House Affairs committee  On one, ethnic media, Beijing actually actively sends ethnic media journalists from Canada to train in Beijing to tell a “good China” story, a narrative favourable to Beijing. While that is a perfectly fine exchange, Canadians should be informed that these actors are being trained in Beijing by state actors.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Beijing sees inaction as weakness. They respond only to strength, and sometimes that means we have to take extraordinary measures that may cost us in something—maybe trade, maybe getting our diplomat expelled from China. We have to show strength in our interactions with them, because they take our weakness for granted.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Again, I want to emphasize that there's already a culture of silence, because engaging in these types of activities is seen as dirty and as not something that someone who is in their right mind should be doing in politics. The idea is that you shouldn't touch that. For a lot of the community members, when they do see the very severe cases of intimidation and harassment, they look at themselves and say, “I'm not brave enough to undertake this.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Absolutely the diaspora is the expert, and bringing us into rooms will only enrich the solutions that come through. We take a different perspective; we have different linguistic and cultural lenses that could come into the conversation, absolutely.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  In our previous report, “In Plain Sight”, which was published two years ago, we did talk a lot about political influence, aspects of building relationships with people of influence and making sure that political decisions are favourable to Beijing. There are also other aspects of infiltration and interference in basically any sector you could name in Canada, like technology, research, academia, civil society and the media narrative.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Yes, I can also speak to some of the interviews I've undertaken with diaspora members here in Canada. It's quite concerning when people begin to laugh off a dead rat on their front porch as, “Oh, they tried to intimidate me with a dead rat, as if that would do anything.” Their tires are slashed, and they just say, “Oh, now I have to buy new tires.”

Procedure and House Affairs committee  For one, we need to actually stop translating materials, because when you translate materials, they get taken out of the linguistic and cultural contexts. We need to actually generate materials with a cultural and sensitive lens that reach the communities you're talking to and that talk about things they care about.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Intimidation and harassment are the extreme ends of how the diaspora could be controlled in their behaviours in Canada, but there are more subtle and more seemingly innocuous ways to influence and govern the diaspora. First off, many in the diaspora already know that there are certain topics and issues that you can't cross, because it will be be seen as angering Beijing or getting on the PRC's radar, and that's not even talking about dissenting behaviour.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Yes, and that type of activity is also extended to individuals who are here in Canada. For example, I have spoken with a Chinese mainland international student who attended a protest and was later called to the embassy to talk about her visa status. Those are the types of activities that are used to suppress and govern not just our Canadian relatives overseas but also those who are here to make sure that control over the diaspora is maintained.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  There are multiple layers to this. One is that the police officers and enforcement agencies need to enforce laws when there is very clear criminal activity, such as harassment, assault and destruction of property. These activities already occur, and they need to be treated seriously.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Rural, remote and northern communities are at a higher risk. Foreign interference is more effective because the fewer resources have a disproportionately larger impact on the community. We need to look at northern and rural communities with a specialized lens when we talk about civic engagement and how we can get accurate information to these communities while at the same time making sure we're not allowing foreign influence activities to take place without calling attention to them.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I do think there is a need for that. A part of it is that there are very specific incidents that trigger these types of cybersecurity issues, and it's often when we do media appearances or public appearances that are seen as unfavourable to Beijing. If we are able to get specialized tech support to help us identify where the vulnerabilities are and help us overcome them so that we can participate fully, not just in committee but in other spaces—in advocacy meetings with MPs or with meetings with government officials—that would be a great help for us.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I think that's precisely why we are the experts and we have the knowledge. Thank you for having us here again. I believe that strengthening the diaspora and dissident communities so that we are more free to participate in civil society and in civic activities is a proactive counter to foreign interference.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I think it's very difficult to say. Many of my colleagues and my volunteers, I think, are seeing these types of consultations, these meetings, as a step forward, but these are just consultations. We need actions. Actions lead to change. I don't want to speak on behalf of the diaspora to say that this is how much we trust you, because there is a very wide political ideology behind the diaspora, but I do think that we are coming slowly to the beginning of regaining trust.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  We have made a written submission. We'd be happy to make any supplementary submission as needed.