Industry committee  I think that's a hypothetical, and I can't really answer a hypothetical, especially when it involves suing someone. In answer to the switch from paper to digital, I think it's important to note that both the Access Copyright licence and the Copibec licence covers a reproduction

Industry committee  Those statistics don't refer to the reuse rights, the reproduction; that's for sales. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to comment about the source of that data and how it marries with our own experience.

Industry committee  One thing to keep in mind is that what gets sold and what gets copied are sometimes different works. A group of works that are not being bought can be copied, so you may see sales revenues go up for this group of creators, but it's another group of creators who get reproduced and

Industry committee  Again, I don't know the source of that data, so I can't really comment about that data per se, but—

Industry committee  —generally speaking, I think your comments are accurate.

Industry committee  Absolutely not. That is not correct. I think what you need to do is look at the York University case. It was the time—the opportunity—we had to actually see the content that gets used in course packs and on learning management systems at York University. In the context of that

Industry committee  If I may, I've been at Access Copyright for 17 years. I've been there, in a way, through this whole process, and what I'm going to express is my personal view of what has happened through the years. The Copyright Modernization Act took 15 years. For 15 years the parties came be

Industry committee  A study was done.

Industry committee  Yes, absolutely.

Industry committee  A study was done and that's where the 380 million came from. Of that 380 million, the Copyright Board concluded that 60% of that is fair dealing, and therefore not compensable.

Industry committee  The remaining 40% is compensable. So, in fact, there were 150 million pages that still need to be compensated, but the ministers of education are still refusing to pay that. They're claiming the whole thing under fair dealing, even the amount that the Copyright Board said had to

Industry committee  Outstanding payments that they're claiming fair dealing on, 380 million pages in total for elementary/secondary. In the post-sec sector, we did a study on York University. In that case, as a result of the study that looked at the copies loaded on learning management systems and

Industry committee  When you use all of that data, on a conservative end, you end up with 600 million pages that have been copied and not paid for. These are copies that are not licensed, nor have transactional licences been obtained for them that are not available under open access licences.

Industry committee  Yes.

Industry committee  Yes. No, absolutely.