Evidence of meeting #47 for Canadian Heritage in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbc.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for coming today.
I have a preliminary question and then a main question.
With regard to the income your members earn, do you have any idea what portion comes from CBC programs?
11:50 a.m.
President, ACTRA (Manitoba)
Do you have any statistics...?
In Manitoba it would be totally insignificant.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
Secretary, ACTRA (Manitoba)
In Vancouver and Toronto, I'm sure they get...because there is production in Vancouver and Toronto, and Montreal.
11:50 a.m.
Branch Representative, ACTRA (Manitoba)
The other thing to realize is that a lot of CBC dramatic production, production that you see on CBC television today, is actually made by independent producers. They have licence agreements with the CBC. So the CBC may have licence rights but not the ownership.
As an example, I would assume Intelligence is owned privately, with a licence agreement with the CBC, and for some of the series that have come out of Nova Scotia or the Maritimes, it's the same way. Little Mosque on the Prairie is probably an independent production as well, though I'm not 100% sure about that.
I find it very curious that Little Mosque on the Prairie is made in Toronto.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Let me follow that up with another question, which I've asked a number of witnesses.
There is perhaps one comment that has been repeated time and time again: the whole issue of sustainable funding for the CBC. There is evidence before this committee that in terms of real dollars, CBC's funding is about half of what it used to be. Of course, one of the ways you get funding is for the federal government to increase funding to the CBC. However, that's not necessarily the only model.
I refer to testimony we heard from a former CBC president, Tony Manera, who was in Ottawa a few weeks ago. He made the bold statement that he believes “The federal government should cancel all tax subsidies and credits now going to private broadcasters and redirect those funds to the CBC.” In return, he says, there should be “a relaxation of Canadian content requirements for private broadcasters, who should be free to offer whatever mix of programming best suits their commercial objectives.”
So they're saying there might be a trade-off here.
One of the questions I had after that meeting, to Mr. Neville, who was also there, a former chief of staff to Prime Minister Joe Clark, was that obviously the private broadcasters would love to be freed of the shackles of Canadian content rules, but if in fact that happens, there has to be a trade-off, which is that they have to understand they have an obligation to support a vibrant and strong public broadcaster, and are they prepared to commit to providing funding that enhances the government funding to make sure that CBC is strong, that CBC can actually improve the number of Canadian dramas that are shown on CBC?
What are your comments? What would your reaction be to a very significant paradigm shift in the future?
11:50 a.m.
Secretary, ACTRA (Manitoba)
About this idea of relaxing Canadian content, I just don't get it. We have a very vibrant and exciting music industry in Canada. Why? Because at one point, unless I'm mistaken, the CRTC said, look, guys, you have to play Canadian music” As a result, we have a Canadian music industry.
If you relax Canadian content as far as drama or comedy is concerned, what's going to happen? Why don't they follow the music industry thing and say, look, do it--and not talk shows and reality shows; that's not upholding Canadian culture. Do drama and comedy. Produce, and then we will have a vibrant industry.
11:50 a.m.
Vice-President, ACTRA (Manitoba)
I think that's very true. There's an excellent model, once again, that worked in another arts sector. I think that's an excellent point.
I also think it's important to note that at present the private broadcasters and the CBC are on a level playing field in terms of Canadian drama and how much is produced. Certainly I believe the CBC should step it up and perhaps be at a higher level than the private broadcasters, but the idea that you would relax requirements for the private broadcasters, who already spend only what they must and spend a great deal more importing American programming, I think is absurd.
I think it's very important for Canadians to see that their artistic contributions are recognized internationally as well, which is again what has happened in the Canadian music scene and is entirely plausible for Canadian drama and television.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
You're recommending that there be a review of the new media exemption. I'm assuming you're really saying you'd like to see the exemption removed. Is that right? This again begs the question Mr. Angus also touched on, of whether you can categorically state today that we are able to capture all of the content value. In other words, can we monetize that value and find a way of capturing that with all of the forms of new media as they're developing?
Right now we're competing with a huge market in the United States, which is flooding Canada with its own content on different media platforms. You can only regulate that if you have a way of capturing content and monetizing it. Are we there yet, or are we perhaps going down a road where we're going to find ourselves so frustrated because we're fighting the unregulated media that we can't protect against?
I've heard notions of geo-gating, trying to prevent American content from coming across the border, but I'm not sure that's going to be effective against all forms of new media. What are your comments?
11:55 a.m.
President, ACTRA (Manitoba)
This may not be answering the question, but I love the example of the BBC. If you have good stuff, people are going to go to it in the new media. If it's CBC-initiated stuff, it's available, and you get the right people in there who know how that whole thing works.... It's younger people who need to--
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
I understand that, but regulating the new media platforms is a different challenge. Are we even able to regulate it the way you're asking us to?
11:55 a.m.
Branch Representative, ACTRA (Manitoba)
I don't see why not. If regulations are put in place, the broadcasters or whoever owns the new technology will make the changes to fulfill them. I believe Europe has recently decided to go in this direction, so why can't we? We're not a third world country, so we should be able to be at the leading edge of this. We're at the leading edge of many kinds of technologies, and we should be at the leading edge of this. We have a wonderful music industry, but we should have a wonderful television and multimedia industry as well.
I don't have a technical answer for you, so I can't really speak to it very well. I just don't believe we are incapable of actually achieving this. We should be one of the leaders in the world.
Noon
Branch Representative, ACTRA (Manitoba)
They might, but maybe it's time for new people in the CRTC.
Noon
Vice-President, ACTRA (Manitoba)
The review is three years overdue already, so....
Noon
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
They were here before us and stated that it's still their position that the new media exemption should continue to apply, given the current environment within which new media is developing and the fact that it may be difficult to capture all of the content produced on the new media, especially from outside our borders.
Noon
Branch Representative, ACTRA (Manitoba)
It was important to us as a guild to make sure we had new media written specifically into our collective agreement, because if you don't start dealing with it now, you are not going to have the opportunity later on to backtrack and get stuff in place.
So I would say to the CRTC that they're missing the boat. The longer they put this off, the more difficult it's going to be later. Maybe that's what they want in the end; maybe they are just trying to head away from regulation. I think that will be a great detriment to the industry and the performers in this country. I don't see this as a beneficial development at all.
Noon
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Thank you.
I think that's it. Thank you very much for your presentations this morning and for answering questions that were put around the table. We've all had an opportunity, so we'll recess for lunch.
This meeting is adjourned.