Canadian Heritage Committee on Oct. 25th, 2012

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

It's locking the content so that nobody can steal it.

[Richard Iwaniuk]

It's basically DRM. If you are discussing the removal of DRM, this is a tricky question. BioWare has taken a different approach with respect to DRM. Our industry has different methodologies. Online connectivity that requires people to authenticate back to the servers to make sure it is a legitimate licence is one of the things we are doing. With the advent of social gaming, we are migrating to different business models, such as the play-for-free model, where you can pick up and play and then buy as you wish, but you require that online connectivity.

From our perspective, we work really hard to try to develop a relationship with our customers. We continue to give them content. We continue to give them value with the hope that they will continue to engage in our IPs in a legal way.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

You talked about universities. I know that education is theoretically a different level of government.

We have a sector that is actually growing rapidly. These are very good, well-paying jobs. There are obviously hundreds of thousands of jobs available to people who are well trained. What do we have to do to unlock this block you're having with our colleges and universities? It's great that we have Sheridan College and Humber College and maybe even Centennial College, which is in your riding, but with the economy the way it is, it strikes me that if we did more of this, we would be graduating students who could go right into the workforce into very well-paying jobs.

What suggestions do you have, if any, to get them thinking about this sector so that you don't have to rely on our missions abroad to bring in foreign workers to fill these jobs?

[Richard Iwaniuk]

From our perspective, again, I think the industry has come a long way in the last few years. We're starting to build a critical mass of people. Universities are starting to recognize that this is a viable program. Let's use technology as an example. For programming, and I can't speak for the others, the reality is that we haven't hired anyone who hasn't had a masters degree in programming with a specific understanding of game programming. A lot of our sourcing comes from the University of Alberta. They have a specific game-based programming department.

We are starting to see that happening more often, because building designs, building levels, and even doing the art is different. Even writing for games is different from writing a novel. It's different from writing any sort of linear entertainment. We need to get the universities to start to invest in game-specific programs.

[Luc Duchaine]

I think I should add that it's nice to have universities invest, but as I was mentioning, right now we have a lack of what we call seniors in the industry. For us, we believe we've reached a plateau. That's when it starts to be more and more difficult, and that's why people will jump ship from one company to another. The offers are there. I know people who left us to go somewhere else, to another studio, even though they have some challenges right now in terms of finances. Why are they moving? There's no stress. The guy who has seven or eight years of experience in programming can find another job in a week. It's that easy.

When we talk about immigration, it's good to train newcomers, but at the same time, if we want to remain competitive, we need that critical mass of senior people. I think we've reached a level right now—I'll speak for Montreal, at least—where it's starting to get difficult. They're not multiplying themselves.

With newcomers, it's like anything else. They need to gain experience and learn the drill before they can become one of those seniors. At the same time, we need to remain at the top of the game if we want to sell, because our business is really difficult.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Pierre Nantel]

Thank you, Mr. Duchaine.

I'm sorry, we're out of time.

So that we are all on the same page, could I ask Mr. Iwaniuk to give us a definition of DRM? Digital locks were mentioned, but you answered with another initialism, the DRM.

[Richard Iwaniuk]

The term “DRM” in our industry means digital rights management. It's exactly that: it's how we manage those digital rights for the consumers of the content.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Pierre Nantel]

Thank you.

We are now starting a new round of questions. Matthew Dubé has the floor for five minutes.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen, for being here today.

At the risk of insulting a few people, I dare say that my age gives me a unique perspective on your industry. You and my colleague, Mr. Cash, mentioned the debate that the evolution of your industry has created on the artistic and cultural value of your industry in Canada, in Quebec and around the world.

With that in mind, I agree with you, Mr. Duchaine, about the great importance of designers. However, we are seeing the growing importance of actors who do the voices, for example, or even the scriptwriters. If I remember correctly, a history professor I had at McGill University had verified the accuracy of the facts in Assassin's Creed. These are the interesting types of thing we observe.

In recent years, an effort has been made to ensure that, as is the case with film, video games are available in French and that the dubbing is done in Canada, especially in Quebec. I dare say that you are pioneers in that regard. It's normal, since your company is French and its core is in Quebec.

My question is for all three of you. Aside from the employees who take care of the technological side of things, there are artists who are involved, particularly actors. What do you, as Canadian companies, do to ensure that you have Canadian content?

[Luc Duchaine]

We make an effort with this, particularly when it comes to actors.

The games are developed in English first, we have to admit that. My colleague here said that half his games are sold in North America. For us, that percentage is 40% to 50%, and the United States makes up 90% of that market. Quebec represents just a small portion.

It's important to mention that our games are in French. Yes, we are a French company. So we try to work with Canadian actors, actors from Toronto, or Montreal. You mentioned Assassin's Creed. A number of Quebec actors provided their voices for the French version. We try to work with Canadian writers, as well.

For equal talent, we will try to work with Canadian people. If we can get a truly exceptional talent, we'll hire that person. For example, for some games, we worked with the Malmö symphony orchestra, in Sweden. We are trying to get some variety in what we are doing, but for the artistic aspect, we are also trying to invest in local talent. It's something we are trying everywhere. the majority of employees are from here. The majority are Canadian, with many of them from Quebec. We are trying to invest in local talent. When we can, we do.

[Martin Carrier]

For us, our games are developed in French and English. In fact, all the games made in Montreal are in both languages. It is very important for us and important for our employees who speak English, French and a multitude of other languages. They come from all over, mainly Canada, but also from all over the world.

I would perhaps like to broaden the definition of the word "artist" a little. Some people do voices, while others do music. We also have a lot of local talent. We also do a lot of what we call motion capture, often to create excerpts of non-interactive sections that sometimes add a little bit to the story. We do a lot of work with that in Montreal, and we use local artists.

These aren't necessarily the artists we would see in front of the camera. There are also movement artists, except they are in Spandex and have small points all over their body. So they are movement artists.

Very often, in video games, our animators are also mimes. So there are a number of cultural sectors involved that would not necessarily come to mind.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

You both just raised a number of points. It is easy for us to think of the schools and of all the technology available. But to what extent were your decisions to stay in Montreal, for example, or Toronto, influenced by the availability of local talent, be it musicians, actors or other artists who are available in the area and ready to work with you and who are basically well-supported?

[Luc Duchaine]

It's critical. This is part of our industry. Without these talents, we couldn't have the industry here. It's interesting because we developed it ourselves. It has been developed over the years. We were talking about critical mass and that is why today, we have Quebeckers and Canadians working around the world for numerous developers. In fact, they gained this experience and developed it.

That is why we stay. I'll be honest, when we arrived in 1997, a number of people came from France, but others came out of schools, film schools, in particular. There was no real training. So we learned as we went along. That is why the industry is young. I'm not even 40 years old and I am part of the old guard. The average age is 33 years old, and I am really one of the old ones. I'm not kidding. It's a young industry. That's why we're staying.

The critical mass of talent was developed, which brought other players and led to a broader critical mass. So we gained an international reputation. Now, local and international talents want to work with us. Montreal has an international reputation for that when it comes to gaming.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

That is interesting, thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Pierre Nantel]

Thank you, Mr. Duchaine. Thank you, Mr. Dubé.

Jim Hillyer has the floor.

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I want to touch on something you brought up. Are video games healthy? You said yes. I am not going to contest that answer. They can be or they can't be, but it depends. My concern isn't so much with the content itself and whether it's too violent or there is too much sex or whatever. I think the industry does a good job of labelling and making people aware of the product they are getting their hands on.

You did refer to the guys in the basement locked up playing video games all day. That's the biggest concern I have for my kids. As parents, we can choose what they play. We can also determine how much they play. The beer commercials say to drink responsibly. The casino commercials say to know where the limit is. Does the industry have any responsibility when it comes to addiction? Let's face it. For some people, but not everyone, there is a potential for addiction in some of these online games. Is that something that you think should be the industry's concern at all?

[Martin Carrier]

With all entertainment, it should be done in good measure. It's entertainment, but it's also sports. You have guys who are training for a marathon and then end up with shin splints. It's really an individual responsibility to mix it up with either different entertainment or different games. It's also a parenting issue to some degree to make sure that kids are playing the right games, the games that are appropriate for them. We do create great products that people feel very passionate about. That may be one of the side effects. I think our gamers are very responsible. We certainly think, as an industry, often it's a personal responsibility of the gamers to know exactly when to draw the line.

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I can see heads nodding, so if there's nothing else to add—

[Luc Duchaine]

I agree. It's the same for movies and the same for television. It's the same for a lot of forms of entertainment. You have to self-regulate, and as a parent as well. It's the same advice I gave to all my friends who have kids: they should have limits. It's our job as parents to do so.

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you. I don't want to spend too much time on that.

We've talked about why Canada is working for the industry and some of the things that have worked well for your industry. What are some of the obstacles to your industry? What's stopping you from getting to that next level? You could talk about markets and so on, but for the purpose of this committee, what government impediments are stopping you from going where you want to go, or are there any?

[Richard Iwaniuk]

All of us alluded to hiring people, being able to bring in people when we need to. Again, I would point to the more senior people within the organizations. We need them to continue to innovate and advance the industry. That, from our perspective, is certainly the biggest opportunity I see to working with the government: to improve that process. We need these people. We need to have those quality content creators to continue to push forward.

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I used to work for a technical school. People who wanted to be gamers would pursue a degree in computer programming. There was a lot of focus on programming for business. They'd say they weren't guaranteed to get a job with EA Sports to make the best games in the world. Some people even were equating it to being in the big leagues athletically. Now what I'm hearing is that if you know how to program for games, you will have a job for life. Are schools making a mistake by saying not to get too caught up in learning how to develop games?

[Luc Duchaine]

I don't know if they're making a mistake. I wouldn't judge them on that, because it's the field they know.

When I was in business school, they were pushing us to accounting, because being a comptable agréé—I don't know the expression in English—was a big thing at the time. Suddenly it became something else, and I did marketing. I didn't follow their guidance and it served me well. At the same time, it's because a lot of the people teaching don't know our business. They know general computer programming for playing or elements like that.

It's important that they be exposed to that business. I want to say that a good programmer will have a job for life, and a bad programmer probably not, because in our business talent is king. If you have no talent, you won't work. You can try....

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Pierre Nantel]

Thank you, Mr. Duchaine.

Thank you, Mr. Hillyer. I'm sorry, you're out of time.

I will now give the floor to Ms. Sitsabaiesan.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Talent is king or queen.