Canadian Heritage Committee on June 5th, 2013

[James L. Turk]

—in the sense that if we take everyone in this room at their word, we're all in favour of a stronger museum that helps us better understand, appreciate, and be critically aware of our history. If that is in fact what everyone in this committee believes, you have a unique opportunity because Bill C-49 adds zero to the current Canadian Museum of Civilization, but takes a lot away from it.

It can be fixed easily by changing the mandate provision in the bill, because it takes away the brand, as Mr. Rabinovitch said, and it takes away the money. The cost of the vast amounts of reconstruction is going to be far more than $25 million.

In terms of the sharing, which I assume is why some of our colleagues from the museum community are supportive of the bill, there is literally nothing in the current Museums Act that would preclude precisely what is being promised under the new bill.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Turk, I'm sorry, I don't mean to cut you off there, but I want to switch ends because I don't have a lot of time. I only have five minutes.

To Mr. McAvity and Ms. Evenden, just on that point alone. Something that has come to light is that the $25 million is not going toward the sharing of these objects across the country. The former witness talked about how he envisions private enterprise being involved in sponsorship and fundraising.

That really has to be a disadvantage to a small museum, for example, from Timmins, or from some smaller community such as Bishop's Falls, where I'm from. It's an advantage for those who can afford it, as opposed to those who deserve it. At least that's my interpretation because there is no money involved for these smaller places; they just have to have big enough resources.

[John McAvity]

We've been completely supportive of developing private sector philanthropy to help museums. Currently in Canada the museum community is receiving about 9% of its total revenue by way of donations. I don't mean donations of artifacts, I mean donations of money. That is much lower, for example, than in the United States and other countries. We need to develop a culture of greater support for our museums. We've made proposals to the federal government and the finance committee to set up a special program of matching donations as a short-term incentive. It's not in this bill.

I'm speaking to the larger issue regarding the difficulty of raising money. What I heard Mr. O'Neill say is that it was his role to undertake that national campaign.

I agree with you, in Timmins or Corner Brook, it will be more difficult to raise that kind of funding. I believe there are probably some other steps that can and will be looked at by the Department of Canadian Heritage.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Moore]

Thank you, Mr. Simms.

Mr. Calandra, for seven minutes.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Turk, you represent university professors?

[James L. Turk]

That's correct.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Do your professors teach the same lesson plan year after year, after year, after year?

[James L. Turk]

Certainly not.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

They modify and update it?

[James L. Turk]

Yes.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Why do they do that?

[James L. Turk]

Because knowledge and information changes.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. Rabinovitch, I appreciate your passion on this. You came to the museum in 2000 or 2001?

[Dr. Victor Rabinovitch]

It was 2000.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

From what department did you come from?

[Dr. Victor Rabinovitch]

Human Resources Development.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Had you run a large museum before that?

[Dr. Victor Rabinovitch]

For three years I had been the assistant deputy minister responsible for museums, as well as broadcasting and similar activities in the Department of Canadian Heritage. I also sat on private cultural organizations as a volunteer.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. McAvity, during Mr. Turk's opening statement he mentioned that he wanted to share the collections. He talked about bone fragments and that a lot of it is for research. It strikes me that you have the longer experience—you said you have 40 years' experience in museums—

[John McAvity]

Yes.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

—just to confirm?

You have 40 years of experience in museums.

[John McAvity]

Yes, 40 years.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

In my riding there is a massive discovery of a Wendat village, a massive, massive discovery. There's a film, a documentary, about it called Curse of the Axe. Hundreds of bone fragments were found, among other things. The Museum of Civilization is currently custodian of all of those artifacts, but our local museum also wants to have an opportunity to display those, as does the Stouffville museum, as does the Markham museum.

In your estimation, do you agree with Mr. Turk that these local museums don't have the ability, that the local curators, the local people who will handle these collections, aren't sophisticated enough, to deal with these collections?

[James L. Turk]

That's not what I said.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Mr. McAvity.