Canadian Heritage Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I want to clarify my colleague Mr. Gourde's comments, just to set the record straight. The carbon exchange to which Quebec belongs was adopted when Mr. Harper's government was in power in Ottawa. So there was no real pressure from the Liberals at that time. As a matter of fact—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

That's not a point of order.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

No, it's a point of clarification.

There you have it, Mr. Gourde, the facts have been set straight.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Lawrence, I'm sorry; Mr. Champoux is making a point.

Shall we continue? Are there any further speakers?

Mr. Gourde, are you finished?

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

May I continue, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes. Thank you.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Madam Chair, I told my colleague Mr. Champoux that we heard about the possibility of a carbon tax about 10 years ago.

The carbon tax in the other provinces and the Quebec carbon exchange are currently about the same. However, with the increase that will come into effect on April 1 and subsequent increases until 2030, the carbon tax in the other provinces will exceed the amount of the carbon exchange.

The Liberal government has made it clear that as soon as the tax exceeds the amount of the exchange—if it isn't adjusted—the increase will apply in Quebec at the same rate as in the other provinces. That means that Quebeckers will pay as much as the other provinces, either through a carbon tax, a carbon exchange or a mix of the two.

The collateral damage will affect all economic sectors and, inevitably, the economic sector related to arts and culture, including ticket sales. Quebec is a very large province. When you go to see a show in the regions, you have to get in your car and calculate gas costs, in addition to tickets and other expenses. People who tour also have gas costs. There is a multiplier effect in all areas of our society. Inevitably, that hurts culture.

This motion is really important. It would lower the cost of living across all economic sectors. It would also allow people to keep more money in their pockets. When they have more money, they can make choices. Cultural choice is inevitable, because Quebeckers love to go and see shows when they have the means to do so. They invest heavily in shows and culture when they can.

As you will understand, Madam Chair, the impact of the carbon tax, even though it doesn't currently apply in Quebec, will apply as a result of the increase on April 1 and subsequent increases, because the amount of the carbon exchange will reach $170 a tonne.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I'll go to Mr. Waugh again. Go ahead, Kevin.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I just want to point out that right now the Winnipeg Jets are near the top of the NHL. Their owners have actually talked about an issue in Winnipeg, because they're not selling out every day that they play, and yet the hockey club, today, would have a pretty good chance of going a long way in the NHL playoffs. This is what we see happening in this country when we look at teams like Winnipeg or teams like Ottawa, although Ottawa has had a tougher year.

I think the cost of living has hit Canadians coast to coast. When I look at the Winnipeg Jets situation, I see that they already lost a hockey club years ago in Arizona. The owner came forward here about two months ago, not saying that they're going to move, but saying he's concerned with the attendance of 12,000 instead of the 15,000 to 16,000 that they should be getting. Then everyone in the Winnipeg area got their backs up, if you don't mind my saying it, Madam Chair, because they love the Jets, but they just can't afford the tickets.

Of course, the numbers will probably go up in the playoffs, and it will be interesting, because everybody from the commissioner of the NHL, Gary Bettman.... In fact, Bettman arrived in Winnipeg because he too is concerned about the situation.

The arts, culture and sports in this country are hurting. The Winnipeg Jets, who are fighting for first overall in the NHL, are having attendance problems only because citizens from Manitoba and Saskatchewan, with the carbon tax, are struggling to support a hockey club that certainly should be supported this year.

My last comment is about Wolseley, Saskatchewan. They're one of four communities in Canada looking to improve their rink. Every year TSN, along with Kraft Hockey, donates a sizable amount of money, up to $100,000, to improve a rink. However, the story out of Wolseley this week wasn't that they're going to kick off the competition on March 29; the story out of Wolseley, with about 850 people, about an hour or so out of Regina, is that they're out of food for the food bank. Over 30 people have gone to the food bank in the last week, and they've been told, “Sorry, we have no more food.”

This is in the province of Saskatchewan, Madam Chair, which actually feeds not only this country but the world. Let's look at what's happened there. In my community of Saskatoon, 23,000 people a month go to the Saskatoon Food Bank & Learning Centre. Then we get to Wolseley, which I wanted to talk about, because we're all excited, as Saskatchewan has never won the $100,000 from Kraft Hockeyville. They have a chance to win it here, but everyone now has shifted. They're not going to worry about the rink, which is the community that everybody knows in rural Canada—the rink—

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Go ahead, Mr. Noormohamed.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

When I made comments earlier, you noted that they were not relevant to the motion. I'm just curious as to how this has to do with arts and culture funding and the carbon tax in Canada. I'm not sure talking about hockey and the NHL and privately funded hockey teams like the Ottawa Senators—with other reasons for people not going to their games—are part of the conversation about arts and culture in Canada, which we have heard our colleague so emphatically seek to defend.

I'm certain that when there are chances to fund the arts, they will be actively supporting them, but for now, Madam Chair, I'm not sure how this relates. Could you help us with that, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I have allowed Mr. Waugh to do this because sports, of course, are part of heritage. I take your point about the private sector making a lot of money in the NHL, etc., but I think Mr. Waugh was trying to press a point about whatever his point is that he is making with regard to this.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Just to wrap it up, Madam Chair, the point was this: I feel for Wolseley, because Canadians, in the next two weeks, will be asked to vote for a community that gets a $100,000 gift from Kraft to do the hockey rink renovations. Some don't have ice. Some want an ice plant. Wolseley needs, like others in this country, an upgrade.

When I talk about Wolseley, it is all about the food bank and the empty shelves and the cost of living. That's why I kind of tied it in with the Winnipeg Jets as a sports team, but in Wolseley, Saskatchewan, with a population of 850, they are struggling not only for the rink but for the food bank, which is under siege right now with no food on their shelves and is under the greatest need.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

I see no other intervenors....

Go ahead, Mr. Lawrence.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'm sorry. Mr. Waugh's comments on hockey are too irresistible for me not to comment on. I'll be very quick, though, so we can move to a vote and move on.

I cheer for a team. I cheer for multiple teams. Of course, I cheer for the Toronto Maple Leafs, but I also cheer for the Buffalo Sabres. The Buffalo Sabres operate out of the community of Buffalo, which has a population of 276,000. Winnipeg has a population of 795,000. The Buffalo Sabres have been terrible. They haven't made the playoffs since Stephen Harper was prime minister, to give you an idea of how bad they've been. In 2022-23 they drew, on average, 15,000. Compare that with the Jets at 12,000, and the Jets have been a much better team. I think it's reflective of the economic differences.

In the U.S., the per capita growth has been—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Lawrence—

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'll be two more seconds.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

—I'm going to say that this is out of order now. We're just getting into the weeds on hockey teams.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Just give me one second to wrap it up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

The per capita income in the United States has grown by over 50% in the last 10 years. In Canada it has grown by 4%. One of the economic differences between Canada and the U.S. is the carbon tax. If we want to fund sports, if we want to fund arts and if we want to fund the performing arts—which I think, as I said, are critical to Canadian culture, and their very existence is the fabric of our country—we need to axe the tax.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

I will go to Ms. Ashton and then Mr. Champoux. I think we're becoming very circular in this debate right now.

Go ahead, Ms. Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I certainly support moving quickly to a vote, but I also just want to be clear here.

First of all, as the only Manitoban in this committee who has followed this story about the Jets, I think it's really important that we be clear that the Jets, nowhere in their announcement, talked about the carbon tax. To bring that into this committee is just bizarre. If we want to talk about hockey, let's talk about hockey, but let's be truthful. When the Winnipeg Jets talked about a drop in sales, they didn't talk about the carbon tax specifically. Also, the Jets are partially owned by one of the richest men in Canada, so we're not being factual in our discussion here.

I'm certainly keen to move on to the vote so that we can get this over with.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

Mr. Champoux is next .