Evidence of meeting #10 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mulroney.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:10 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
We do not have time to go into all these details, which are actually relatively unimportant, Mr. Mulroney.
So you were travelling around the world for other clients. Is it not true that there were notes or some system of accounting for all the other clients? Clients received statements on which they could see how much you spent or how much you attributed to your travel costs.
10:10 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
All that sort of thing was done in a large firm of the type where you worked. In addition, there are accounts in trust in large firms of this type, are there not?
10:10 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Why, in the case of this client, did you not deposit this amount in the bank as an advance, as you would do for other clients from whom you received advances?
10:10 a.m.
P.C., As an Individual
As I said, Mr. Ménard, this was an error in judgment on my part. I have already spoken about that. I should have done things differently, and I am here before the committee today to acknowledge that this was an error in judgment and to apologize for it.
10:10 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
What intrigues me is that it took you so long to realize that you had made such an error in judgment. In which year did you realize that you had made an error in judgment?
10:15 a.m.
P.C., As an Individual
A human error is not divisible, Mr. Ménard. When a person makes a mistake and acknowledges it , that covers all aspects of this human error. That is what I have done.
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
As I understand it, the error recurred. You received other cash payments, and rather than depositing them in the bank and keeping some records of this part of your travel expenses, as you did in the case of your other clients, in this case, you dipped into your safe at home.
10:15 a.m.
P.C., As an Individual
As I told you at the outset, Mr. Ménard, this was a sort of watching brief that Mr. Schreiber had given me for work I was to do internationally. I think I also told you that he was the only client who offered me this type of compensation. I believe I said that the reason for this was that Mr. Schreiber had told me that he dealt in cash only. I did mention, Mr. Ménard, that I should not have accepted the money. I should have asked for a more transparent way...
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
If you thought that the money was legitimate and that this was a transaction just like any other, why did you not deposit these funds in the bank, so that there could be some records kept and you could account for the part of the expenses you incurred for Mr. Schreiber as opposed to the expenses you incurred for other matters? You even said that you would have preferred a cheque. So you were somewhat concerned about handling such large sums, were you not?
10:15 a.m.
P.C., As an Individual
As I said, this was a personal decision. It should be remembered, Mr. Ménard, that I did not claim any expenses from the Canadian government when I reported this income. I absorbed all the expenses myself. With reference to your questions about particular expenses, I would say that I never tried to recover them from the Canadian government. Not at all. I declared everything as...
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
That was not my question, Mr. Mulroney. We will move on to something else, because I do have only 10 minutes.
I believe you received a second payment two months later. Was that in November or December 1993? I know that two dates are mentioned in the documents. Once again, this was a cash payment. How much was it that time?
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
So it was another $75,000.
Was the third payment, which you received at the Pierre Hotel, also in cash?
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
10:15 a.m.
P.C., As an Individual
I put it in a place in New York. I left it in New York.
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Did you travel to New York to go and get the money you used?
10:15 a.m.
P.C., As an Individual
I left it in New York until I declared the entire amount as income and specified the amount of the expenses I had absorbed. At that point, it became my money. That was when I allowed myself to use it. It was not in an account, as you know, it was in what is called a safety deposit box.
10:15 a.m.
Bloc
Serge Ménard Bloc Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC
Do you realize, Mr. Mulroney, that your actions do not give the impression that you were conducting a legitimate transaction?