Evidence of meeting #69 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was foundation.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:15 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
It was $800,000 to the med school. I provided you with that as a single piece of evidence. That's very clear. It was clear to me from the start that this was a legitimate donation by a legitimate philanthropist.
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
Correct, and there were no questions at the time at the University of Toronto with Mr. Zhang's philanthropy or the source of it.
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
If we could just elaborate on that, because context is important, my understanding is that Mr. Zhang's intention was to donate to Université de Montréal, and the Trudeau foundation, in its excellent work in scholarship in that program, became part of it, but there was a negotiation process that had to happen. It wasn't simply that Mr. Zhang woke up and decided, “I want to donate to the Trudeau foundation in the same way that I've donated to the medical school at U of T.”
6:20 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
No. He didn't have an interest in donating to the Trudeau foundation.
6:20 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
There was going to be a partnership. It had to be presented.... As the president of the Université de Montréal stated, there was some reluctance on his part to complicate what he wanted, which was a simple deal of the kind he did at U of T.
May 3rd, 2023 / 6:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
I understand.
Okay, let's further the context of that timeframe.
It was 2013 and 2014. The Harper Conservatives were in power. Stephen Harper was aggressively pursuing a secret 31-year trade deal with China at that time with Xi Jinping. That was going on.
At that time, did the Harper government or officials brief you or the Trudeau foundation? Did CSIS come to the Trudeau foundation at that time and say, “You know, we're a little bit concerned here about potential foreign influence with Mr. Zhang's contributions,” whether to the Trudeau foundation, the Université de Montréal or the University of Toronto? Were there any conversations like that?
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
You're saying there were no warnings by the Harper government while they were in power, making secret trade deals with the Chinese government and Xi Jinping, to the Trudeau foundation, which was really an entity of the civil service in part, in terms of setting it up and its bylaws. During the Conservative government's time, no one thought to brief you or to say, “Hey”.
6:20 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
That's it exactly. If there had been damning evidence, I would think they would have brought it to the attention of someone.
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
My colleagues here are trying to connect the dots to China now and the concerns they have about allegations with respect to a member of the Conservative Party on a vote that actually.... I was on the foreign affairs committee at that time, and I was also a member banned by China because of the Uyghur study. Do you think this is a little bit of crystal ball pontification in terms of how the Trudeau foundation could possibly be connected to this kind of—
6:20 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
Do I think what is crystal ball pontification?
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
They're alleging that there is some kind of direct connection with what is happening now, in terms of China today.
Let's talk context. It's China 2023, so a decade has passed.
6:20 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
The world has moved, but this is the state of politics in not looking back a lot and seeing the changes in the world. Our diplomatic goals and objectives and even the very nature of diplomacy changed. Stephen Harper was eager to trade with China. We're still trading with China.
Look around: The room is filled with Chinese-made objects. We're in a deep relationship with China. That continues. Diplomacy is very difficult for many reasons right now, and it's changing all the time, and it has changed significantly since the time this donation started.
The very goals of academic...which I still believe in, by the way; I just don't think the Trudeau foundation can do it as long as there's a Trudeau government.
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
In the context of the China of then, the Harper government didn't see any need to raise a red flag to you on the Trudeau foundation or on any of these contributions.
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ya'ara Saks Liberal York Centre, ON
I will cede my time, and Mr. Turnbull will take those three minutes when they come up.
6:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Okay. Thank you. There are six minutes left, three and three.
Mr. Barrett, go ahead for three minutes.
6:20 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You have made some, I would say, unfortunate characterizations about media reporting, whether about Le Journal de Montréal not being a credible source for news or about The Globe and Mail. We know the family of member of Parliament Michael Chong was targeted for intimidation at the behest of Beijing. It's a fact, whether you've had the opportunity to read about it or not.
Do you think the consular officials who orchestrated this campaign of intimidation should be expelled?
6:20 p.m.
Member, Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation
I'd have to read the facts more carefully. Frankly, I'm not a public official and I'm not even an editorialist. I will grant you that the risks of China doing malign interference in this country grow by the day and should be taken very seriously. I believe everyone in the committee does take these very seriously, and I trust, frankly, that the government—not just the political government but also the civil service—will act in accordance with all the rules. I'm not—