Finance Committee on Nov. 21st, 2012

[Some hon. members]

No.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

No. You don't have to recognize him either.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Order.

I'm asking you a question as the chair, based on advice from the clerks.

Does the committee wish to hear from Mr. Lamoureux?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

If Mr. Lamoureux wishes to speak, he can be subbed in.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Can I ask to be subbed in, Mr. Chairperson? How do I go about being subbed in?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Members can be subbed in very easily. They just have to provide a sheet to the clerk of the committee. It takes about five seconds.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Can I be provided with one of those sheets?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Well, you have enough staff here. I suspect they have one of these sheets.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

What I don't understand, Mr. Chair, is that—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Frankly, Mr. Lamoureux, you are not recognized. The person representing the Liberal Party right now is Mr. McCallum.

If Mr. Lamoureux wishes to speak, I would suggest that he be subbed in.

I'm moving ahead here. I'd really like to move ahead.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Absolutely. Great.

(On clause 8)

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I do not have any amendments with respect to clause 8.

Is there any discussion on clause 8?

Mr. McCallum?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

On clause 8—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I recognize Mr. McCallum on clause 8.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

—did you say there are no amendments?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I don't see any amendments on clause 8.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

But I would—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You can speak to clause 8 generally.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Mr. Chair, I rather question your ruling, because Standing Order 119, which I just read out, doesn't say he has to be subbed in. It says that a member of the House, unless otherwise stated, should be allowed to speak.

I just read it out. It says:

Any Member of the House who is not a member of a standing, special or legislative committee, may, unless the House or the committee concerned otherwise orders, take part in the public proceedings of the committee, but may not vote or move any motion, nor be part of any quorum.

It doesn't say he has to be signed in. It just says that if he's a member of Parliament, he may participate.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay. On this point of order, then, I'll hear Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I think he just challenged the chair. I think that's what he wanted to do; at least, it appears that you made a ruling and he challenged your ruling.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Well, he can't move a motion on a point of order, so....

Order.

The advice from the clerks is based, in fact, on what was I believe read by Mr. McCallum—Standing Order 119, on page 90 of the Standing Orders:

Any Member of the House who is not a member of a standing, special or legislative committee, may, unless the House or the committee concerned otherwise orders, take part in the public proceedings of the committee, but may not vote or move any motion, nor be part of any quorum.

This is why the practice we have used in the finance committee—in fact, that we had in the last Parliament, in which the Liberal Party had an extra member, Ms. Martha Hall Findlay—is that I would ask, “Do we have the consent of the committee for Ms. Findlay to ask questions?” Consent was generally given.

Consent was not given here. It says “unless the House or the committee concerned otherwise orders”. This is the advice the clerks are giving me; this is the statement that I'm reading here today.

There's actually an easy way to address this, which is to have a substitution sheet passed to the clerk who is sitting next to me, and this would be addressed in about five seconds, or we can continue with the gamesmanship that's being played here.

But you're testing the chair's patience. Frankly, we're following the words in the Standing Orders, following the advice of the clerks. I can have the clerks amplify this ruling for the Liberal Party so that they fully understand it, or we can move on to clause 8, which is what I will do as the chair.

I'm moving on to clause 8.

I've given my ruling. It's not a point of order.

Mr. Lamoureux, you're not recognized by the chair.

Is there any discussion on clause 8?

Mr. Lamoureux, the committee has clearly indicated that unless you're subbed in, they do not wish to hear from you.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I am subbed in, Mr. Chair...[Inaudible—Editor]

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, he is subbed in. Let's start the five minutes.

Mr. Lamoureux.