Evidence of meeting #27 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was little.
9:55 a.m.
Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority
That's about what we bring in in revenue annually. That would be our gross revenue, around $20,000.
9:55 a.m.
Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority
Then we pay our land taxes, our light bills, and everything else.
9:55 a.m.
Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority
Gregory's speaking of the $50,000 that we happen to have in the bank now. The only reason that's there now is that things have been going pretty well over the last couple of years down there, but we could have a storm surge at any time and that would be gone. That wouldn't be nearly enough to fix it.
Lawrence said there was a fix during the storm surge of 2000; they wouldn't have even looked at it for $50,000.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
Thank you, Mr. Calkins.
We've gone around, and as usual, I have a question I want to ask.
On the membership of the harbour authority that you're familiar with, outside of fishermen themselves, are there other people involved in the harbour authorities here? It's just fishermen around the harbour authority, is it? Okay.
I know in Newfoundland and Labrador we have other people in the community sometimes. I've never fished in my life, but I was one of the founding members of the harbour authority in my community. Sometimes they do that down home. I was just trying to find a different angle.
9:55 a.m.
Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority
We find that if we get other people involved it always creates confusion, because they're not stakeholders. We put a waste oil receptacle down at the wharf, and then somehow we ended up having everybody's oil coming to the wharf. We tried garbage bins down there once, and then everybody's garbage was coming to the wharf.
9:55 a.m.
Chair, Annandale Harbour Authority
It's kind of a focal point for the three communities. We already told you that.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
Small communities, boy.
Once again, I want to thank our witnesses this morning. Certainly there was some interesting conversation.
We'll break for five minutes and get ready for our next panel. Thank you very much.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
I call the meeting to order. If anybody wants to join us at the table, they can do so.
I would like to welcome Mr. Norman Peters, who will have a presentation for us. I don't know, Mr. Peters, whether you were here when I introduced the last session.
My name is Fabian Manning and I am the member of Parliament for the riding of Avalon in Newfoundland and Labrador. We are the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans for the Parliament of Canada. We are in the process of conducting a study into the small craft harbours program of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.
As part of that study we're travelling around Atlantic Canada and Quebec this week to hear from people like yourselves who are on the ground. We have had the opportunity to hear from people within the department, the director general of small craft harbours and others, and this is part and parcel of a study that we hope to present to Parliament prior to the summer recess. Our purpose is to create a foundation for the minister to go forward, to find funding and other ways of enhancing the small craft harbours program.
I understand, Mr. Peters, that today is your birthday, so the committee wants to wish you happy birthday.
10:10 a.m.
Norman Peters Chairman, North Rustico Harbour Authority
Me and the Pope. The Pope's name is Benedict and my middle name is Benedict, so be careful.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
We're delighted with this divine intervention today, and we look forward to your remarks. Mr. Peters, the floor is yours.
10:10 a.m.
Chairman, North Rustico Harbour Authority
This is a presentation to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans regarding the small craft harbours, presented by Norman Peters, fisherman and chairman of North Rustico Harbour Authority.
First of all, I would like to extend our condolences to our friends and colleagues for the men who were lost from the Magdalen Islands. I'm chairman of the North Shore Fishermen's Association, and we extend our sympathies.
We have wharves that were built in the 1950s and 1960s that either have collapsed, as in Murray Harbour and Covehead, or are on the verge of collapse. The piles, the foundation of these facilities, are simply decaying faster than government can replace them. This problem has been left unattended for so long that we are now facing major expenses to bring them up to par.
I won't go on through the list of the woes of the various harbours, but from meeting with my colleagues and representatives from government over the years, I can assure you that this is a major economic challenge and one that would result in a major economic loss to fishermen and communities and anybody else that's involved in the fishery unless they're addressed in the near future.
On funding, I realize that wharves are a major expense and that money just doesn't grow on trees. Funding has to be the most basic and difficult challenge we face. We seem to wait for disasters to happen before we address the problems.
We are forced to hound our MPs for funding. Both Mr. MacAulay and Mr. Easter have experienced this, and without their lobbying and hard work we would get a lot less and our industry would be in worse shape. That's a true statement. I would like to thank them for their efforts. They are certainly appreciated by the fishermen of P.E.I.
Why then do we have to resort to begging for handouts? There have been assessments conducted over the years that do point to serious problems with our entire wharf infrastructure. There seems to be money for the assessments but no money to carry out the recommendations suggested by the assessments. Fishermen have certainly made government aware of our needs. Do we wait for an accident to happen before dealing with the problem? In most cases we are patching again a former patch-up job.
The fishing industry is worth billions of dollars and creates jobs out of the communities, as opposed to the urban centres. In fact, a lot of communities would disappear if the inshore fishery collapsed, because we do not have what they had when the cod collapsed in Newfoundland. We don't have crabs. We don't have shrimp. We don't have cod. We don't have mackerel. We have lobster, and we're looking after that as diligently as we can.
I believe the Government of Canada has a lot of issues tugging at the purse strings, and we're simply one more problem. The heart of the matter is that when the wharves are no longer functional, we cease to be able to make a living. I would challenge you to encourage your colleagues to address this situation and to provide the necessary funding to bring our harbours up to a safe and functional level so that we can all enjoy the opportunities that the sea provides.
Now to harbour authorities and fishermen. DFO over the past decade or more downloaded all kinds of tasks on fishermen. Fishermen did not ask to form harbour authorities; it was thrust upon us. We knew we were getting broken-down and deteriorating wharves and breakwaters to look after, but we were led to believe that if we did not form harbour authorities our harbours would not be looked at for any more funding.
North Rustico was one of the first harbours to form a harbour authority. What we interpret as cohesion is continuing to go on. Just last year our fishermen who asked to maintain traditional access to the sea were approached to accept from DFO a parcel of land. Well, actually at the harbour it was three or four or five parcels of land. We wanted DFO to maintain ownership of the land. We did not want to take on the responsibility of ownership of this land because we have nothing to do with it; we don't know what to do with it.
However, we were led to believe, and I was told to my face, that if we did not choose to accept this parcel of land it would be sold to another buyer. We would be in danger of being prohibited the use of one of our traditional accesses to the sea. We live in a heavy tourist area where many people choose to stroll along the shore.
10:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
Mr. Peters, thank you for your presentation. I know you put some time and effort into it.
The purpose of our visit to Atlantic Canada and Quebec during this week, as I stated earlier, is to hear from people like you, the fishermen and the people who are depending upon these facilities and these opportunities to make a living. That's why we're delighted to be here in Georgetown this morning, to hear from people like you. Once again, thank you for your presentation.
We'll go to Mr. MacAulay for ten minutes.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Norman, it's good to hear from you. I must admit that I've heard you a few times. And that's good; you understand what's going on and you understand what's needed in the fishery.
I also certainly can feel for you when you're asking not to beg. You're one of the most important segments of our society here. Without your income as inshore fishermen...and as you emphasized, you're inshore fishermen. If we lose our wharves and harbours, we don't have our inshore fishery.
You also indicated that we shouldn't wait until something happens. We do see tragedies, unfortunately, in the fishery, and then things happen.
You're asking us to encourage our colleagues to have an understanding of how important this is to the economy. Every part of this nation has different economies in it. You happen to be involved in one of the most important segments of the economy here.
10:25 a.m.
Chairman, North Rustico Harbour Authority
It's preventative maintenance. Our main breakwater in Rustico.... I'll tell you what they were doing for a while; they were turning over the planks. They weren't rotten underneath. They were turning over the planks and nailing them back down, because the planks were a little better underneath. There was a major storm surge, one of the major storm surges, and before that happened, I was working with Wayne--I usually work with Lawrence too--and he said, “Jesus, Norman, you've got to get those big stones from New Brunswick; that's the only thing.” I said, “Listen, I'm in the middle of everything here. How can we do that? We need support from you smart people. I'm only one little fisherman. But if we had a string of these big stones--armour rock.”
They were put there a year ago. I was head of the project, and we haven't had a problem since.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
10:25 a.m.
Chairman, North Rustico Harbour Authority
That saved dollars.
The other thing I will tell you is that on our wharf the small craft harbours people came out; they sent the public works people out, they looked it over, and said, “Oh my God, the whole thing's got to be torn down. The whole wharf has to go.” A million and a half dollars to redo it. So we called them back out to some more meetings and said, “We want you to come and see underneath.” They said, “We haven't got time today.”
“There's no tie-backs”, they said. “It's condemned. We're going to tear it down.” They would put all stone there in the middle of the village, big high stone. That's not an option for us.
Anyway, we finally got them under the wharf. My God almighty, the tie-backs are there. This wouldn't cost a million and a half; it's only going to cost maybe $400,000.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
10:25 a.m.
Chairman, North Rustico Harbour Authority
I don't want to run down engineers. My son is one.
The point is, that just goes to show you the amount of money that would be used before the wharf even got anything. The money that goes out on studies and that is phenomenal.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
I thank you. I might want to pass you on to the Newfoundlanders to see what they can do with it.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
It's up to you. You have your ten minutes. You can do what you like.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
Bill Matthews Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
Thank you very much, Lawrence.
Let me say it's a real pleasure to be here with you in your riding and to listen to the concerns of some of your people. They are very similar concerns to what we heard in Newfoundland for two days, to be very honest with you.
Thank you for coming.
This was of great interest, your presentation. You're very well prepared. I guess you can tell the story best for us because you're a user, you're involved in it all, and that makes a lot of difference.
I just wanted to ask a question about a couple of issues you talked about. You mentioned that when harbour authorities came on the scene and it was sort of thrown in your lap, it was without training. I just want you to expand on that for the committee a bit, if you would. It seems to me there should have been some training components held with people who were going to be involved. Could you just explain that to me and the committee?
10:25 a.m.
Chairman, North Rustico Harbour Authority
We were advised that all harbours were going to become harbour authorities, and there were various meetings held around the Island. There were some harbours that said “No, we're not becoming harbour authorities.” “Fine, there won't be a bit of work on your harbour until you become a harbour authority.”
There was no training. We were incorporated in 1995. We were called a shining star. Rustico was one of the first, I think. Things were good. There was a little job to be done out there, and we called the engineers out. They came out, and this time they said it would be $70,000 to put in a few tie-backs to hold the wharf.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
Bill Matthews Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
Would you say now, even 20 or so years later, that there should be some kind of training program for those harbour authorities or for those getting involved? Do you think it would still serve a purpose? It's something we'd be interested in, as a committee, for our report.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
Bill Matthews Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
Well, I'm just listening to what you said, that you were given this responsibility, or took it on, but there was no kind of program or any way to help you take on those responsibilities. There was book work, I guess, and other things were involved.
I understood you to say that you were told, “You're the harbour authority, now go to it”, without any assistance or help on how to go about doing your job. That's what I thought you said, but maybe I misinterpreted you.