Evidence of meeting #7 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ceta.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
Okay.
Manitoba's my home and I have a number of commercial fishermen in my constituency. From a freshwater commercial fishing perspective, Manitoba's probably number one, outside the Great Lakes areas.
What are the ramifications of CETA for freshwater commercial fisheries?
4 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
CETA didn't take into consideration the freshwater, so there's no exemption under CETA, on the one hand. On the other hand, there's not a lot of interest either, I would say.
John, do you want to elaborate on that?
December 5th, 2013 / 4 p.m.
John Campbell Director, Aquaculture Policy and Regulatory Initiatives, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Most of the freshwater products would have been covered and gone immediate duty-free already. They are part of the 360 package tariff lines that are there. In the 17 that are remaining, there are no freshwater products as far as I can tell.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
On the issue of aquaculture, are fish and seafood products produced by the aquaculture industry? What ramifications does CETA have for that industry?
4:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
They are considered to be fish under this agreement, and therefore would be subject to the same tariff relief as everything else.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
Would that apply to all the other products, such as mussels and oysters?
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I want to welcome the witnesses.
Mr. Bevan, was the seal industry and the export of seals to the EU ever part of the trade package? If not, it's amazing to me, looking at the situation that we have in this country in the sealing industry, that it would not be part of that package.
4:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It wasn't part of it. It was a separate process being conducted under the WTO, so we didn't ask—
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
No, the EU trade deal itself wouldn't be under the WTO. We left it to the WTO to make the ruling. When you're finished I'd like you to explain just what this ruling means. If we win it, what does that mean? Do we have to do it every year, and what exactly are we appealing?
4:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We're appealing the rationale for the ruling, the application of moral reasons to allow an unfair, discriminatory trade practice.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
You have indicated that this is not consistent with international law, or you would expect that we would win it.
4:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I indicated that we're concerned about the very subjective reason for allowing the discriminatory practice. It's not just about seals at this point; it's a much broader concern.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
It's a lot broader. If it happens to continue down this path, everything that's caged or produced en masse will be a big problem.
So it was never part of the package at all.
4:05 p.m.
Director, Aquaculture Policy and Regulatory Initiatives, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No, from the outset of the CETA negotiations, the seals case was set aside. We were hoping to find other ways to resolve it, through diplomacy, through other efforts; however, that never did happen. We did have to go forward with the WTO case.
From the beginning, the Prime Minister said outright that we have trade disruptions in various places, not only in seals, but in other areas of Canada-EU trade, and therefore, we were capable of moving ahead with the CETA deal, and we were hoping that this would be resolved diplomatically.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
You were hoping it would be resolved diplomatically, when the EU itself has a seal hunt and they're not allowing our seal products to enter the EU, and we still think we can negotiate a deal when we've just completed a massive trade deal.
4:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Clearly, the trade deal is going to be very good for the Canadian fishing industry.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The process we're following on the seal issue is through the WTO. It's a trade issue that we are concerned about, and we're now concerned about the rationale used by the WTO on the last decision. In the event that we are successful on appeal, that would then lead us to a different dialogue with the EU, relevant to market access and remedies, and so on.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Let's say you do win the WTO appeal and the EU decides they're still going to play unfairly, I think, as Mr. Sopuck has indicated. They're not going to let us export seal products into their countries. What happens then to the countries that do not allow the seal products to enter their country? What kind of a penalty do they pay? How often do we have to go to the WTO to deal with this ruling? Couldn't this happen again down the road?
4:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I couldn't prejudge what's going to happen in the decisions of an independent body like the WTO. There are rules as to the consequences if you're found to be inconsistent with international trade. Canada will then be able to take actions commensurate with the scale of the problem that we have to impede trade coming in from the EU. How that would work under CETA, I can't say. I'm not an expert in international trade.
