Fisheries Committee on Dec. 5th, 2013

[David Bevan]

It's a fish-processing industry. That's a provincial jurisdiction. We aren't involved in the management of the processing. We work in partnership with provinces, because it's obviously a continuum of the fishing industry, but no, we weren't engaged in this. It was part of a negotiation internal to Canada, to pave the way to get the deal, but we weren't a part of that process.

I don't think it's unusual for a department where it's not directly involved. We have no real business in the processing side. To get the arrangement with CETA, that was up to Trade. To administer the fund is up to ACOA. We don't have the authorities to administer a fund of that nature.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thank you.

I have a question as well about production costs.

I had one particular conversation with Earle McCurdy, head of the Fish, Food and Allied Workers union, Newfoundland and Labrador. I asked him about production costs in the European Union and whether or not there was a fear, because production costs are lower in the European Union, that may mean that.... Again, there are these reports out of the EU about access, the Europeans are lauding this potential access to Canadian fish, the production costs in the EU, in countries, for example like Spain and Portugal.... Is there any fear that the lower production costs there could undermine what's left of our fish plants, of our processing facilities in Newfoundland and Labrador?

[David Bevan]

Production costs probably vary quite considerably across the EU. The expertise would also vary in terms of what they're good at processing.

Shrimp is processed farther north, where production costs can't be any less expensive than those in Newfoundland and Labrador. There also is the issue of transportation and product form, etc. That will come out, I would expect.

I also note that minimum processing requirements were not ubiquitous to all jurisdictions in Atlantic Canada. You don't see any significant product movement in a raw form out of Atlantic Canada to the EU, to be processed there into a different form. We see fish going to the EU in a fairly unprocessed way, but that's because it goes to the retail, where its value is higher in the marketplace for a whole small fish, for example. That would be a different issue from going to be further processed.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Cleary.

Mr. Sopuck.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Yesterday I had the pleasure of meeting with a gentleman you might know, Mr. Eldred Woodford, from the Canadian Sealers Association. Even though I'm a Manitoba MP, I did that in my capacity as chair of the Conservative hunting and angling caucus.

As you know, a couple of days ago was fur day on the Hill. The sealers were prominently represented. I am now the proud possessor of a sealskin wallet, which I'll cherish for a long time.

Of course the WTO decision not to overturn the EU ban was the significant topic of discussion there. Can you elaborate on that and on what the department is planning to do? Will you be working with foreign affairs and international trade? Do you have a desk set up to provide information to the powers that be so we can appeal it? Could you give me an idea of what your process is?

[David Bevan]

I think the decision has been made to appeal it.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Okay.

[David Bevan]

The problem with the decision, from our perspective, is that it says there is obvious discrimination, it's not fair, but they justified that infringement based on the fact there was a moral issue. That's very vague indeed, and how would that apply on all sorts of other products?

That is a concern, not just from the seals issue. Obviously, it's a serious concern because we haven't got access to the market, but it's also a concern on a whole range of products. If you're using that kind of a logic—if I can call it logic, because I'm not sure I would agree with that—if you're using that reason, then it could be applied too broadly, and I think we would want to have that narrowed down.

[Tim Angus, Acting Director General of External Relations, International Trade and Market, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

I think as well we're working quite closely with industry and with like-minded partners internationally, such as Norway. We endeavour to correct misinformation through communications as well, but DFATD is the lead on the actual appeal which needs to be filed by the 24th.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

As somebody in a previous life as a hunting advocate, as a newspaper columnist, who has fought the animal rights battles for many years, I think we delude ourselves when we think that all these people are concerned about is the humane treatment of seals, and as long as we do it right, everything's going to be fine. They want to put the sealing industry out of business, and we should never forget what those groups are all about.

Have you had the opportunity to discuss the precedent-setting nature of this ruling with colleagues in other departments, such as Natural Resources, Agriculture, and so on? My guess is those other departments that deal with other resource industries are not really aware of the precedents, the dangers of this particular WTO move.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

A point of order, Mr. Chair, with all due respect to the member opposite, this line of questioning has nothing to do with CETA. This is world trade.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Sorry, that's what the business was today. It was on CETA and WTO, the seal issue.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Oh, I thought it was just specifically on seal. My apologies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

The committee discussed this on Tuesday and their decision was to have officials here to discuss both issues, Mr. Cleary.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

My apologies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

My understanding was that we were supposed to be able to ask seal questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you.

Mr. Sopuck, please continue.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Go ahead.

[David Bevan]

We're flustering their inquiry.

Other departments are watching this very carefully. It's one thing when it's a seal ban; it's another when the rationale is very general. That's caused a lot of concern. It has caused concern with international trade, but it has also caused concern with other departments because it could apply to products they are responsible for, and therefore, everybody's paying a lot of attention.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Okay. I really appreciate this.

One of the things that has come out, I guess, is that some European countries have humane treatment of fish and wildlife and crustacean rules.

How do you humanely treat a lobster? How can we deal with those kinds of criteria that some European countries have?

[David Bevan]

Some European countries may establish requirements for how you handle them in their country. That's their prerogative.

We would argue that given the fact a lobster has a pretty rudimentary neural system, they would not be aware of what's going on, but we also don't think we're going to be mistreating products that are still alive on their way to market, because quality counts—

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Sure.

[David Bevan]

—and quality would not be sustained if you're not taking care of the animals you're exporting.