Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 5th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

There are two things. First of all, Mr. Obhrai will speak to the motion, and then we will bring it forward. It's not a long study. We will not be hearing a bunch of witnesses. I think we all understand the severity in Kenya. At this point, I think, with Kofi Annan there, this is to say that this is what Canada expects. Human rights and all of those things are included in the motion.

Do we have unanimous consent to have Mr. Obhrai speak to this motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Do we have unanimous consent to bring this forward today as the front motion we would discuss?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Okay, we're unanimous on that.

Madame Barbot, did you want to speak to another point?

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

I would like to talk about Somalia, but if you wish to discuss the motion, I will come back to this topic later on.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Go ahead. I just want Kenya to be taken up so we can do the things concerning the level...and then we can move back to Somalia.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Is that all right, Madame Barbot?

So we will go to Kenya, and I'll ask Mr. Obhrai to perhaps repeat some of his concerns there.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

As you see, the motion coming from my colleague, Peter Goldring, says the following:

That the Committee recommends to the government that it calls on all parties involved in the disputed Kenyan elections to reach an immediate, peaceful agreement in order to stop the tragic and continued violence, and that the Committee notes with deep concern the violation of human rights in Kenya during this political crisis.

I don't know if many of you know this, but Kofi Annan has called what is happening in Kenya quite clearly ethnic cleansing. He has used the very strong words “ethnic cleansing”. There has been a mediation effort going on with the African Union. Nevertheless, unfortunately, positions have become quite entrenched in Kenya on both sides at this time.

I'm not going to go into the merits and demerits of the election results. We know what that is all about. What we really need to do, number one, is to stop the violence that is taking place. It has disintegrated to the level of gangs from each tribe trying to kill those from the others. Two members of Parliament have already been shot dead in Kenya in the last week.

Historically, Canada has been very strongly engaged in Kenya. Kenya is our CIDA partner. We have invested a lot of money in Kenya.

I think at this given time, this motion calls for the government to act. We will present it to the Parliament very quickly.

I'm saying that the authority is coming from us as parliamentarians, although by adopting this motion we are telling the Government of Canada to do it. The parliamentarians of Canada are concerned about this whole issue.

That is why Peter wrote this message here: so it would be not only the Government of Canada doing it but the parliamentarians of Canada as well. We have had a lot of visits from the Kenyan parliamentarians, so we do have good relations.

For that reason, I ask that we adopt this motion as quickly as possible so that the message can go out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Obhrai.

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I'm supportive of this motion. Perhaps I'll be suggesting what I would consider to be a friendly amendment for the consideration of our colleagues across the aisle.

Some of us have watched quite carefully how this has evolved, and it's of tremendous concern. We heard recently in the discussions about Somalia how neighbouring countries impact on each other. Kenya, up until now, had been an oasis of relative calm in this region of East Africa and the Horn of Africa, notwithstanding the fact that there are millions of refugees. In fact, there's a sizeable Somali refugee community within Kenya, and in fact even in the capital, Nairobi.

Of course we all agree that we want a peaceful resolution, but how do we get there? Having watched the very difficult negotiations that have taken place, it appears that there is an international consensus building that what is needed is a transitional period for a unity government of all the parties involved, until such time as security is re-established. So this would be a transitional period. Once that security is re-established, there would be an opportunity for a rerunning of democratic elections, with a very large international contingent to make sure that we don't fall into the same situation a second time.

There is a general consensus; it's just working out the mechanisms and the details of how we get there. So I would like to make a friendly amendment—and if it's agreed to unanimously, that would be tremendous—that would add on to Mr. Goldring's motion and say:

We call upon all parties to form a unity government for a transitional period until security is re-established, and at such time we call upon a rerunning of the presidential election with an adequate international observer mission.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Do you have that written out, Borys?

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

“Scratched out” would be a more accurate description, but I could write it out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

I think our clerk could use that.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

And I am amenable to wordsmithing on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

I'm hesitant on that. I don't even know if I could allow that to be in order. This is definitely changing the motion. This is now becoming more procedural in how we're going to do it.

This motion was given not to lay out any major game plan for Kenya. It was there to say that Canada wants peace; we want it in this way.

Mr. Obhrai, I'm going to reserve judgment on this. If you want to speak to the friendly amendment....

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

I want to speak to a point of view on this one.

I agree with what Borys and the international community have been saying and that this is one of the routes to take towards achieving a peaceful settlement. But what we must always be careful of is not to pull the carpet out from under what is already going on, which is the Kofi Annan peace mission. The moment we put any of these things, we are presupposing and telling, and making Kofi Annan's mediation effort....

The idea right now for us to do is to get this motion out here on this thing. There's nothing telling us not to write to Kofi Annan and say this is what Canadians feel, but I would say, as a public expression, we must not undercut Kofi Annan. He's doing the mediation, he's having a hard time, he's having a hard time about this re-election and everything, so let him do that job. Let him finish that job. We are standing behind, but we are adding our voice to tell the parties to come to the table. That's all we're saying. Further down the road, we can look into more detailed studies, if you want.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Obhrai.

Mr. Dewar, Ms. Barbot, and then Mr. Cullen.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I was actually going to bring a motion forward on Kenya, so I'm supportive of this. But I would like to change it slightly to widen it, and hopefully, for Thursday, to invite appropriate officials from DFAIT and CIDA to give us the latest, and perhaps there are other relevant experts we might be able to tap into...whether we have time to do that or not.

That's an amendment I would like to make, simply because what you have here is not, in fact, a study on Kenya, but a statement on Kenya.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Yes, a statement.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Okay. I think you used the word “study”, so I just want to clarify it.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Did I use “study”? I'm sorry, it's a statement.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

As we did today, I would like to actually hear from DFAIT and CIDA as to what the latest is, and I'm sure there will be changes by the time Thursday rolls around. It might help us to examine ways of improving Canada's presence, based on what they're saying, and obviously to help constructively to resolve what the crisis is and the underlying causes, etc.

If we can, I would actually have DFAIT and CIDA representatives here on Thursday to present to the committee, because what we have here is a motion, and I think people are grappling with what we should be getting our teeth into. So I guess that's a request to amend the motion as it's written, to actually invite appropriate officials from DFAIT and CIDA and other relevant experts, to review Canada's existing—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

To me, that might be a great motion. I don't think that by passing this motion here it would prevent us from bringing forward another motion or those witnesses to do it. I think what we're asking for here is motherhood and apple pie, basically. This is a statement that's given, especially at the point we're at right now with Kofi Annan being there. Do we want to undertake a briefing? Absolutely. I'm open to that.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm sorry to interrupt, Chair. I thought the fact was that we were talking about Thursday, having some time, and then this came up and then we were talking about a study and now we're—