Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 5th, 2008

[David Angell]

Briefly, Mr. Chairman, there were two principal developments relating to Somalia, both at and on the margins of the African Union summit in Addis Ababa last week and over the weekend.

The first, which immediately preceded the summit, was a meeting of the International Somalia Contact Group with the participation of the African Union Commissioner for Peace and Security, Said Djinnit. It was not formally an AU event, but certainly, with regard to the discussion of Somalia, it was a particularly important element of the summit period.

The International Contact Group is made up of perhaps a dozen of the countries, either as full members or observers, that are the most directly involved in trying to address the situation in Somalia. It was a very useful meeting, in that there was an effort launched to take the ICG beyond a process of discussion of Somalia and turn it into a mechanism whereby real change could be achieved on the ground.

The Prime Minister of Somalia, Nur Hassan Hussein, addressed the International Contact Group. It was a very important presentation. It was an occasion for the Prime Minister to put forward, really for the first time, quite a comprehensive, compelling vision of how the transitional federal government can move forward. There was a broad sense that the vision conveyed could form the basis of a road map for Somalia. So that element, not formally part of the AU summit, was extremely important.

With regard to Somalia itself, there was a resolution adopted by the commission that welcomed a number of the steps that had been taken, including the creation of a new cabinet, under the Prime Minister. It welcomed the process of dialogue that has been evolving around the national reconciliation congress. It appealed for support for AMISOM. It endorsed the role that AMISOM was playing. It welcomed the new contributions made to AMISOM. And it reaffirmed the importance the African Union attaches to a transition from AMISOM to UN force.

There were other provisions as well, for example, with regard to the humanitarian situation. It was a very strong statement, and quite a lengthy resolution was adopted.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Angell.

We will go to Madame Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you to our witnesses for being here this afternoon. I am just filling in for a colleague today. It is unsettling to learn about what is happening in some countries when we are so spoiled here in Canada. It makes us realize how lucky we are.

You spoke about the International Contact Group. What exactly does this group do and how involved is Canada?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Madame Boucher.

Mr. Angell, go ahead, please.

[David Angell]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The International Contact Group is the principal international vehicle for engagement on Somalia.

The group was founded two or three years ago and is co-chaired by the United States and Norway. It comprises both active members and observers, some from Africa, others from the west, including the United Kingdom, France, Italy and Canada. No distinction is drawn, however, between active members and observers.

Thus far, the group has operated as a forum for dialogue with the government and other partners in order to discuss intervention strategies for those African countries facing the greatest difficulties. We hope that the group will go on to strike a number of task forces to provide more direct support to the government, for example, by helping to prepare the census with a view to the 2009 election and by helping draft the constitution and train police officers.

The ICG is a means of cooperating with the Somali government, even though normal access channels are closed to the majority of the group's members, a reality with which we are not confronted elsewhere.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

You said that we are part of this group, but that we do not have access to this country. The members of this group do not have access to Somalia. Is that right?

[David Angell]

The big challenge with Somalia is that the situation is so dangerous that the countries participating in the group, with one or two exceptions, do not have an embassy there. Their people are not authorized to travel in Somalia because the situation in the field remains too dangerous.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

All right. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Madame Boucher.

Thank you, Mr. Angell.

We'll move to Monsieur Dewar.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our guests for your presentations today.

I think most Canadians who are aware of what's going on in Somalia are deeply concerned, to put it mildly. We know from the responses of the UN that many are calling Somalia right now the worst humanitarian crisis we are facing. It seems from your presentation today and from the things we read in the paper and other news reports that there's little hope on the horizon.

I know that people--and UN reports, I believe--have said that up to two million people are facing a humanitarian crisis right now. About a million are internally displaced, and recent reports from this afternoon indicate that 15 people were killed in the north from a grenade attack. It goes on and on.

We know that one of the problems was that the UN was supposed to provide stability, following a motion at the UN, but it was usurped by what happened when the Ethiopian troops came in. I guess this is a political question.

Some would point to the fact there was some stability beforehand, notwithstanding people's concerns about the Islamic courts. I know from eyewitness accounts of constituents of mine that there was actually a period when you could drive through Mogadishu without being harangued, harassed, or shaken down, at the time the Islamic courts had brought some stability. Those aren't my words; those are the words of people who had been in Mogadishu.

It seems there was another agenda at play here. It seems that the result of the Ethiopian action, with the support of the U.S., was that any sensible conflict resolution was thrown to the side. In passing, I find it strange that we sit here as a country with one of the largest Somalian expatriate communities in the entire planet.... I'm not saying this to you, because I know you're the people who deliver the policy of the government. So let me be clear about this, especially as I'm the son of a bureaucrat, that you deliver the wishes of the government. But it seems very strange to me that what I'm seeing is that the best we can do is to come up with a couple of million dollars, and we don't seem to be able to put together a more robust response in what is clearly the worst humanitarian crisis we face right now—though maybe Kenya is going to get worse. And from what we're hearing, it's a political crisis.

What are some of the policy possibilities that we have as a country to support reconciliation, be they through what you already mentioned, Mr. Angell, in terms of the most recent meetings with the ICG or...? And if it isn't possible to do anything now, what can we say to my constituents—Somali Canadians and everyday Canadians—that we can get our government to do beyond what I would suggest is a fairly muted response?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Angell.

[David Angell]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

With regard to the role of Ethiopia in Somalia, you will hear very different assessments of whether that role is benign or not, and part of the reason why my address focused on the immediate region and not just Somalia is you do have an interplay of regional interests that's extremely important to the developments on the ground in Somalia.

In political terms, what may matter most with regard to the question of Ethiopia's presence is the fact that, first, it has the strong support of the African Union, and second, it's a commitment that the Ethiopians themselves are committed to ending at the earliest opportunity. There is no particular Canadian view on the occupation, on the Ethiopian presence, but the--

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

We had one the first time.

[David Angell]

Again, both terms were used, and neither is used particularly by Canada. They're used by people in the country. But the AU declaration on the situation in Somalia that was adopted this month, for example, commended Ethiopia for its invaluable assistance to the transitional federal government. That's an AU statement.

What the United Nations Security Council has said is that it welcomes the commitment of Ethiopia to withdraw, welcomes the fact that a withdraw has begun, but recognizes that a withdrawal can't take place absent more forceful AMISOM presence on the ground. Again, these are not Canadian views; these are simply statements.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I don't mean to interrupt, but are there any other voices saying who would fill the void? Is there a plan being put forward?

For me, that's the meat of it. If we believe that the Ethiopian troops should withdraw and that something else should be put in place, has anyone come to the table to say here's the plan, here's who can be put into the field? Is there any design plan around that at all?

[David Angell]

Mr. Chairman, the African Union has developed a plan, the key element of which is AMISOM. At the moment, two countries have contributed troops. Two more are on the cusp of doing so. There's an authorization for 8,000 troops. There is a hope that will be sufficient to fill the vacuum.

With regard to robust response, the challenge that Canada has confronted is precisely the same challenge that other countries participating in the international contact group concerned more generally confront, and that is, in a country that does not have a functioning government that is responsible for the entirety of the country, that does not have some of the key ingredients of a functioning state, it's exceptionally difficult to have an impact and to get traction.

By way of a vision of how to move forward, what the special envoy of the African Union has put forward as a vision for the short term is a five-point plan to engage all stakeholders within Somalia: through the reconciliation congress process, to build on the results and conclusions of the NRC; to create the security conditions necessary to the effective deployment of AMISOM; to prepare for an eventual UN transition; to create the conditions necessary to permit a timely delivery of humanitarian aid; and to help build the governance capacity. In one sense, that's a very simple five-point plan. Given the realities on the ground in Somalia, that's also at the same time a Herculean task.

In my statement, Mr. Chairman, I mentioned a sense of encouragement recently. Certainly I sensed it at the international contact group meeting, that there are a number of developments taking place that augured for Somalia. At the same time, the most recent UN and AU reports continue to emphasize that there has been no significant improvement in the security situation, that the situation remains exceptionally difficult. There is some basis to believe that greater progress may be possible, but that's small steps. It's incremental progress relative to what we've seen recently.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Angell.

We'll go to the second round. I remind the committee that it's a five-minute round.

Mr. Lebel.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for coming.

All of the interventions that we have heard about today demonstrate to Canadians of Somali origin the interest that all Canadian members of Parliament have in the future of their country.

We have to look at the situation realistically, as we usually do. Your documents stated that the state is not viable, that no functioning national government has been in place since 1991 and that 85% of the people in the Horn of Africa live in Ethiopia. We must therefore be realistic as to what we can do. We need to help Somalia improve its future.

Is there a solution that would enhance the quality of life of the people and promote the development of Somalia? Later on, we will be talking about Sudan, a neighbouring country. Our action was made possible because of our facility in Ethiopia and Kenya. Is it possible to find a solution for Somalia which does not involve all of the neighbouring countries? Could we not take comprehensive action in this sector which would have an impact on Somalia?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Just as an example, some have suggested that in dealing with other countries in Africa, perhaps the best way of helping one country is by helping democratic countries, or at least countries with functioning governments, that border it.

I know that we're involved in Ethiopia, and we're involved somewhat in some of those other countries, but is that part of the Somalia plan?

[Nadia Kostiuk]

From a development standpoint,

It is possible to take a regional approach. Nevertheless, it is often very difficult for a country to help another improve its governance, in particular when these countries are not really friends. However, some innovative approaches have come from the African countries themselves. An initiative called the Nile Basin Initiative, is very interesting because it involves the ten countries that share the Nile. These countries have had conflicts amongst themselves, such as Ethiopia and Eritrea, but they do have a common interest, and because of this, they are working together. When representatives from these countries discuss the resources of the Nile, they create long-term associations enabling them to discuss other common challenges. Nevertheless, this is not an easy task and this does not happen very quickly. Organizations, such as the IGAD, which Mr. Angell mentioned, and the role that the African Union plays are very important to enable us to take a truly African approach.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Money must not flow like water, but perhaps it can get people together.

[David Angell]

Mr. Chairman, I would like to add one small thing to my colleague's response. It is clear that the future of Ethiopia is crucial for the future of the sub-region.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Again, I know that much of what happens in Somalia relates more to clans or tribes. There's no major government but you have these clans. Is there a migration of people that...?

You know, Chad, Sudan, and some of those countries “border”. What border? There's this constant migration of people, and maybe that's the context for why some people were saying that some of these neighbouring countries need help in order to help these folks who are going back across.

So is that part of what they're facing up there as well?

[David Angell]

Mr. Chairman, I believe it is a factor, certainly. There's extensive population movement within the sub-region. There are very large numbers of citizens of one country living in another.

At the same time, for some ethnic groups the population boundaries don't necessarily correspond with the political boundaries between the states. One of the complicating factors in this case is that within Ethiopia, there's a large Somali ethnic community in the Ogaden region. That is an enormously complicating factor.