Evidence of meeting #5 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was management.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:15 p.m.
Chairperson, Public Service Labour Relations Board
Absolutely not. Our adjudicators hear the cases, and the parties make all the submissions they want to make. The adjudicator doesn't ask any questions—
5:15 p.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
If I'm a public servant, but not a senior executive, and the employer wants to dismiss me because I'm a member of a sovereigntist group, for example, I'm going to have to pay out of my own pocket the fees of the lawyer who represents me and defends my case before your tribunal.
Is that in fact the case?
5:15 p.m.
Chairperson, Public Service Labour Relations Board
A person may wish to hire his own lawyer for a number of reasons. In many cases, people who do not want to be represented by their union pay the fees of an outside lawyer out of their own pocket. It may also occur that people are not represented at all. They are what is called self-represented. This is increasingly frequent in our tribunal. We see it regularly, indeed daily.
5:15 p.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
As for retaining a lawyer, it may be good that the person has the support of his union, if I understand correctly, but whatever the case may be, he may represent himself. He then does it before a whole battery of lawyers that the government can put up against him.
5:15 p.m.
Chairperson, Public Service Labour Relations Board
Neither the department, thus the government, nor the person or his union has an obligation to be represented by a lawyer.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
We can come back to that, if you have any other questions.
Do the Conservatives have a question to ask?
Do you have any questions, Mr. Warkentin?
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
No. I think we are probably finished with supplementary estimates. I suspect that there are probably questions with regard to other areas, but I know we didn't come this evening for that.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
That doesn't matter. They're here on estimates, but the committee is free to ask the questions it wants, because the estimates touch all facets of their job.
Mr. Nadeau, do you want to ask another question?
5:20 p.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
Yes, I'd like to know whether compensation analysis and research are your responsibility.
With regard to compensation analyses, I see in the document that was presented to us that, according to your estimates, it is necessary to spend $7 million on exhaustive market surveys in order to determine the salaries of government employees. Is that correct?
5:20 p.m.
Chairperson, Public Service Labour Relations Board
Not exactly. As Mr. Wouters explained, when you talk about compensation, it's much more than salary. It's all the benefits and working conditions that are examined by our group.
It conducts a comparison with the private sector, it conducts a comparison with other public services in the provinces, it conducts a regional comparison by industry, by occupation and by position. We have a lot of things that fall into this area.
5:20 p.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
I may be naive about the method you use, but we're talking about $7 million to determine how much public servants in a nation like Quebec, in a province like Ontario or in Canada earn for comparison purposes. Don't those figures already exist? Personally, I wonder about conducting a survey or spending $7 million to determine compensation where there are already things on that subject. Isn't that already done by government employees?
5:20 p.m.
Chairperson, Public Service Labour Relations Board
No, that's why we've created a tool. They gave us the mandate to do it. Formerly, before 1992, the Pay Research Bureau did this work. It was dissolved in 1992. It hasn't existed since then. In 2005, observing the void and absence of this information, they had to recreate this function at our board.
As I explained earlier, the parties come to the table and cite 2007-2008 in the negotiations across the country. The parties come to the table and have different data. That's what there is in reality, not only in the public sector, but in the private sector as well. I worked for the private sector for more than 30 years. That's also the case in the private sector. The parties have different data. How do you think anyone can reach an agreement if they're working with different data? The parties don't agree, and that leads to disputes and eventually to strikes. For the public welfare, we have to make every effort to avoid that.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Very well, thank you very much. I wanted to tell the Privy Council representatives that I'm very pleased to know that we will have results with regard to the questions that were asked about the compensation of Government of Canada employees. We had enough challenges in the spring and during the summer on this subject. It's a very important topic, which is a real concern to me. We're going to continue pushing ahead. I guarantee you in advance that it's not over. Thank you.
Now I'd like to move to the adoption of the estimates.
We haven't dealt with Public Works, so rather than just globally accept all the estimates, I'd like us to approve all the estimates except for those of Public Works, and report those to the House. Then we could do Public Works after we hear from the Minister of Public Works.
I don't want the vote on every estimate. I'd like to vote on all the estimates, except for those having to do with Public Works, whom we're going to hear from next week.
All those in favour of approving the estimates as I've suggested?
5:20 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
5:20 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
5:25 p.m.
An hon. member
That's all.