Evidence of meeting #42 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was infrastructure.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
My apologies.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you very much for being here, and we'll see you next time with the minister.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
4:30 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
Just for clarification, do I understand that you're asking why in Ontario the provincial contribution is less than the federal contribution, the $200 million?
4:30 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
We have a contribution agreement with the City of Toronto. The agreement is between the federal government and the city, so it counts towards Ontario's share; however, it's not cost-shared with the province. If you would like, my colleague can give you a little bit of elaboration on that.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Actually, no, I think I can understand that.
My last question would be, then, that there's a bunch of projects you say that don't show up in the statistics yet. Maybe there have been no invoices. I thought I heard you say there are projects that are still to be reported. Is this the information you've given to the Parliamentary Budget Officer last night?
4:30 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
The information you have, that we gave the committee, is the same information we gave the Parliament Budget Officer at the end of October. Because he asked for claims dated in September and we didn't have claims yet, we couldn't respond to his request, so at the end of October we gave him, as a first tranche, all the application data as of September 22. So this information here is information from the application of the approved projects under the stimulus fund as of September 22.
What we since have provided to the Parliamentary Budget Officer are two things. Last week we met with his office and gave him a very detailed technical briefing on the program, walked him through the whole program, how it works, and showed him how it operates. We've now provided him with the claims information he requested in September, which was the first round of claims information, and that covers about 1,750 projects.
That was information that was provided to us in late August and the middle of September. Some of it would have been collected early in July, the middle of July, so it represents the state of projects from, I'd say, July to about mid-August. That's the information we just gave him and that he will now go through, and that covers about 1,750 projects.
We now are getting to the second round of claims. Remember they have to do it quarterly. Before they would do it once a year; this program, it's every quarter. The next quarter was November, so we're now just going through the next round of reporting and claims from all the provinces.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Is it possible for you to table that for the committee—that's the progress report that you're giving the Parliamentary Budget Officer—so that we can have a look at it? That's the crux of our study as to what moneys are really flowing out.
You explained to us the process; you've explained to us the advances. All we need to know is, yes, there are certain projects that have not put in their claims, but whoever has put in the claims, let's put it to rest and say, “Here is what money has gone out”, so nobody starts quibbling over it. Okay?
4:35 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
Yes. Again, there are two things to remember with that information.
It gives you a snapshot of projects in July and August.
4:35 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
The second thing is, you have the same issue about language. Again, we're managing the program however the proponent has dealt with their application. So in Ontario, if we had French or English applications, that's the language of the claims and the reporting as well, so it won't be translated.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
If you could give it to us within a week, what we will do is what we did for the previous one. Instead of giving the whole report, we will just make a summary of it, translate it ourselves, and give it to the committee members.
Yes, Mr. Holder?
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
If I may, could I ask, through you, the size of that report? I just want to kind of get a sense of that, please.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
I don't know offhand. I'll find out and maybe I could come back to you on that.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
The reason I asked that, Madam Chair, is just simply that we are probably the most significantly well-read committee, I think, on the Hill, insofar as we ask for more reports than probably all others combined, and I'm somewhat mindful of that.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I thank Ms. Baltacioglu and Mr. Forster for being here. I'm seeing some kind of a discrepancy. You're suggesting that Infrastructure Canada pays claims within 30 days. I'm looking at the schematic, which again says that final claims are paid within 30 days.
I want to ask you about a situation I'm aware of through the National Trails Coalition. I'm sure you're familiar with that program. Funding was approved in the vicinity of $270,000 for bridge and culvert replacements, I think. The funding was to be given in instalments: 50%, then 20%, 20%, and 10%. This particular project is now completed, but they're being told the 10% is being held back until May of 2010. There was nothing in the application process to indicate they would have to wait until that timeframe for that 10% to be paid out. They assumed that once their project was completed and when their invoices were submitted, they would be paid back. Now they're being told they have to wait until the entire country's projects are audited, so seven months from now.
That amounts to about $16,000 for small contractors, which is a lot of money when you're talking rural Canada. Why is that 10% being held back until all these projects are completed?
4:40 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
The National Trails Coalition program runs a bit differently than this schematic. It runs through one agreement with the coalition, so there's one contribution agreement. The coalition then goes out and selects the projects, approves the projects, and provides the funding to the local groups who are doing the work.
Under the National Trails Coalition program, we provided 50% of the funding for this. It's a $25 million program, so we provided $12.5 million to the coalition, I think it was in May or June. That allows them to get work going. You're referring to the 10% holdback on the program. We will still contribute to the coalition. This is not uncommon in most contribution programs. There's a holdback of 10%.
Once the coalition completes the program and files the necessary reports showing what projects were done with our money and closes the book on the program, we'll release the final 10%. I would have to check, but if they want to use the money we've been providing them all along to finish off projects, that's their call.