Evidence of meeting #42 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was infrastructure.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you very much.
We will now go to Madam Foote for five minutes.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
Thank you.
I've noticed, when I've looked at the projects that have been approved, that a significant number of them are what you would call renewal projects versus new construction. I wonder if you could elaborate on that for me.
4:55 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
Yes, absolutely. Because we have a two-year timeframe for this program, a lot of renewal applications did come in, because they can actually be physically finished within one construction season or even less. For example, road resurfacing is very fast to do. It is very much needed, but it is a much easier project to do. If something is from scratch, like a completely new building or an addition to a building, those are more onerous projects, so probably there are less of them because they are dependent on construction.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
Okay. That would have been a topic for discussion with the provinces and municipalities, then, in terms of timeframe. Obviously concerns have been expressed by the federation of municipalities with respect to the deadline of March 31, 2011.
In fact, there is some concern in the smaller municipalities that if it hasn't already been in the mix, they may not get the project finished by the deadline that's been stipulated. The fear now, of course, is that there are going to be municipalities that may have benefited from this program but will now not go forward, because the understanding is that if it's not completed by the deadline, then the municipality has to absorb the total cost of their project on a go-forward basis--that is, the cost for what's left to be finished. Obviously that is an issue for municipalities.
So was part of the thinking that went into the stimulus package that we would focus on renewal projects versus new builds?
5 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
Yes, definitely. The other thing is that you have to remember you're to look at stimulus in the context of the whole suite of programs we offer. The Building Canada programs, for example, strictly focus on new construction. We don't do rehabilitation/repair work.
So for stimulus, again, as Yaprak mentioned, because it's a very short-term program, allowing rehabilitation and repair work made sense, not just for the timeframe for the funding we have, but also because it makes good asset management sense. I'm investing in repairing and rehabilitation of my asset and I am prolonging the life of that asset, so maybe I don't need to replace my building or my bridge for another 20 years by doing that work now.
We certainly encourage the repair and rehabilitation, but the program was open if you had a new building or a new arena and you could still build it in the two-year timeframe. In every application, the proponents attested to the fact they believed this project could be built. Now we'll monitor them as we go.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
In looking at the expenditures, the project costs, and the amounts that have been totalled here, I'm assuming that's what you anticipate spending by the end of March 31, 2011. If some of these projects can't be completed, then that funding will lapse, obviously.
5 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
At the moment, the funding runs until March 31, 2011, so we'll pay all our share of all the costs incurred right up to 11:59 on March 31, 2011. In our agreements with the provinces and municipalities, everyone has agreed that if it's not finished, they will finish the project and cover the costs that are left in order to do so, but we'll certainly be paying everyone our share.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON
I understand that under the contribution agreements we're supposed to get quarterly progress reports specifically on job creation from municipalities and provinces. That's what we understand. If you have received none so far.... You're both shaking your heads, so you haven't received any?
5 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
Right. On our claims and reports we are not requiring them to post the job creation numbers by project. It is not what they report on. They report on tender date, contract date, when they started construction, costs incurred to date, and what our share of those costs is.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON
But isn't it part of the contribution agreement that there's a specific—
5 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
To report on jobs? No. I gave an example of some of the problems you have with the self-reporting of jobs. The data you get can be quite challenging.
5 p.m.
Liberal
5 p.m.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
One of the parts of the infrastructure program that some may find challenging is the deadline. A lot of the programs have to have their projects done by March 31, 2011. What type of feedback are you getting on that? What are you doing to speed up approvals to make that finish date more realistic?
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
The government has been clear about the March 2011 deadline. That is the deadline we're working towards. The quarterly reports we're getting from the provinces serve as assessment tools. We are going to check on the status of each project to see if there is anything we, our provincial partners, or the municipalities can do to speed the work up.
It is one by one, and that's what we're doing. We hope that by the time the next winter report comes in we will have a good sense of where the problem areas might be. We will go through each project to make sure we are doing our best to get everything expedited. Bear in mind, however, that infrastructure projects are dependent on our partners. Our partner municipalities and the provinces are responsible for making things happen on the ground.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
There have been some suggestions that infrastructure stimulus funding favours government ridings. I thought it might be helpful for you to tell us where the project suggestions originate. From what level of government do most of the submissions come? Has there been any political interference in the process?
5:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
I cannot comment on a political question. However, we can explain to you how the process runs.
The project applications come from various proponents. It could be through the province or a municipality, and municipalities can get it from various proponents. There's a long list of applications. Then it is reviewed by federal and provincial officials. At the federal level, we have different types of controls. An ADM-level committee reviews them. Then the recommendations are made. We ensure that no project gets put forward that doesn't meet the terms and conditions of the program.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
I think it's fair to say that a lot of the submissions for these projects are coming from municipal governments. How do you mark the progress of these projects? Do you have performance indicators? How often are we getting updates from municipal governments on the status of these projects?
5:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
We have agreements with each province and territory. They're required, at a minimum, to report quarterly. In our previous programs, they'd do it once a year. In this program, because of the time sensitivity, they're reporting every quarter on all the projects. They tell us whether the project is under way and give us the tender date and the contract date. We monitor this against the start date in their application. If projects are slipping, we'll sit down with the province and ask whether they want to keep it going and how we can make sure it gets done.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
The agreement with the provinces is for quarterly reports. Do municipalities have to abide by that expectation of quarterly reports?
5:05 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
Our reports come through the province. Our money goes to the province, which distributes it to municipal governments. The province has its own agreement with the municipalities. The province may have requested more frequent reporting from certain municipalities. But provinces and territories report to the federal government on a quarterly basis.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you.
I was requested by Mr. Martin to get a quick question in. The Conservative time is up, the Liberal time is next, but we are not taking any time. Mr. Martin would like a minute. Would the committee give Mr. Martin a minute?
5:05 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.