Evidence of meeting #42 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was infrastructure.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you to the committee for that permission.
I have one very brief and specific question. Given that the federal government doesn't distribute funding until invoices are received, as I understand the explanation, how many invoices has the federal government received, and what is the total dollar figure to date?
5:10 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
As I mentioned, the first round of that reporting was in August and September, and that's what we're just processing and finishing off now, so I can't give you a dollar figure to it. But when you print out the claims and reports, it's over 1,700 projects that haven't been reported on. That would have been information as of July and August. We've just had the November—
5:10 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
Yes, it's an online system, so you go in at each project and you complete for each one of the projects the start dates, the tender dates, all that information, costs incurred to date, and the federal share and the provincial share. So on each project, they report on that, if they wish to. We have tons of projects that have started, and we have some that have even finished where we don't have claims yet. So I may not get a claim for something that was finished in September until February. They'll file a claim when they're ready to.
We have at least 500 projects, for example, that we know are under way and well advanced where we don't have a claim for costs yet. But once they bill us, we'll be happy to pay for it.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Mr. Forster, I think the question was very clear: how many invoices have you received? I understand from you that there were 50 projects that were completed, but you haven't received any invoices. So if you haven't received invoices, take a look at it, and perhaps you could respond to the committee, because I think that's a concern of the committee.
5:10 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
I'd be happy to, Madam Chair.
5:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
Sorry, Madam Chairman. I want to make sure that we don't promise something we can't deliver in the timeframe. It's very important for us to provide the committee with accurate information. We can't provide you with draft numbers or the data with problems. What we will do is look through everything we gave to the Parliamentary Budget Officer and try to summarize it in a way so that it would be helpful to the committee, because I think that's also many pages—
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
If it takes too long to summarize, the analyst tells me they'll be able to summarize it for us.
5:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
I'd rather provide it. I just would like some flexibility in terms of timing and when we could provide you all of these things, because I'm not exactly sure.... I have to check with our team.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Okay. So the progress report that you've given to the budget officer has numbers or dollar amounts in it that you are not comfortable with. Is that what you're trying to tell me?
5:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
No. The actual applications came from the provinces, and it was the first time they were using the electronic method. We found there were issues with the data that was inputted. There were discrepancies, so we had to make sure we cleaned it up with the provinces.
We did provide the Parliamentary Budget Officer with what we have, but our chief financial officer hasn't gone through them yet. We are doing internal verification, which is important for us to do. While we would be happy to provide anything the committee wishes, we also have to run this program and make sure that all of the Financial Administration Act requirements are adhered to. So that's what we are doing.
If you would like, we could provide you with what we provided to the Parliamentary Budget Officer, or a version of it.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Yes, with a disclaimer saying these figures have not been verified, and therefore we will know what we are doing.... We have to be responsible and we know what you have been doing.
Will we be able to have it within a week, because you've already supplied it to the Parliamentary Budget Officer? Yes?
5:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
If it's exactly the same package, sure.
5:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
You'll run into the same language problems.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
There was a clarification that we wanted to figure out. On the 50 projects that have been completed, do they belong to the Building Canada fund or to the stimulus package? You can give me the answer later, but just make a note of it and supply us with the information that you've given.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
You have it.
The second one is this. I am advised that in schedule H of the agreement, section 6.2 states that job creation is part of the municipalities' responsibility. It's my understanding that that's the case. If it is not the case, clarify.
5:15 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
It is not the case in Canada's agreement with the province. Ontario goes out and signs its deals with all the municipalities. They may have put that in their agreement--
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
But the federal one doesn't have it. Thank you for that clarification.
5:15 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Infrastructure Canada
No. In terms of the projects that we know are completed--without having any claims information--there are about 47. Most of those are in the stimulus fund.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
And how much of the $33 billion that was there has been utilized, if you can give us that information? Over the seven years, it was supposed to be $4.7 billion per annum. If it has been utilized or drawn down, that would help us as well.
Do you have any closing remarks to make?
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
I thank you very much. It has been gruelling trying to get you here and getting all this information, but I thank you for the information you have provided, and we look forward to working with you in solving this issue. Thank you very much.
The meeting is suspended.