Evidence of meeting #35 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was security.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

William Blair  Chief, Toronto Police Service
Joyce Reynolds  Executive Vice-President, Government Affairs, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association
Justin Taylor  Vice-President, Labour and Supply, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Rhetoric doesn't change reality, and regardless, we look at the security that was involved in this. Frankly, it was an outstanding success, full stop. I still believe that had there been serious injury, the hue and cry from around this table, or even around the country, you might say, would have been very different. Again, I don't apologize for offering sincere compliments to all the forces that were involved, including my own London force and others that were involved.

I have a question for you. I want to keep this to the budget components if I can. It's important to remember who the good guys are in all of this, and in terms of the vandals and those who burned police cars and those who broke windows and disadvantaged our shopkeepers and others, we were all horrified when we saw that level of disgusting violence. Frankly, it was minimal, but it was disgusting nonetheless.

The chair asked the question as to whether the $2 million of damages was included in your budget. Would shopkeepers have any legal recourse against these convicted vandals from a civil suit for the damage they had caused against the shops? Are you aware of that?

9:55 a.m.

Chief, Toronto Police Service

Chief William Blair

There is a possibility of bringing civil suits. I'm not qualified to suggest it would be successful. Sometimes these organizations are rather loosely constructed and don't necessarily have a lot of money behind them that's readily accessible. I'm not sure. I wouldn't necessarily see that as an avenue available to those poor shopkeepers.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON

Well, I sure hope there's some correlation, though, because I think that was quite disappointing and disgusting. I think there have to be consequences when there's that kind of conduct. I do hope that shopkeepers will pursue that as an avenue for them. Obviously there's insurance as well.

9:55 a.m.

Chief, Toronto Police Service

Chief William Blair

Let me also tell you, sir, that I believe very much in accountability for criminal action as well. We've assembled an outstanding investigative team. They have been able, through excellent efforts and great cooperation from the public, to identify many of the people who were responsible for that violence and vandalism. They will be brought before the courts, and hopefully they will be held to a public account for their actions.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON

Can I quickly ask you—it's rather interesting. You made some reference to public accounts yesterday, about the violence associated with a hockey game, that, if I understand correctly, there was more violence after a hockey game in Montreal than there was in Toronto.

Would you care to comment on that?

10 a.m.

Chief, Toronto Police Service

Chief William Blair

I don't want to compare apples and oranges. But I'm aware, for example, that two years before, at the conclusion of a hockey series, as part of the celebration, unfortunately, a number of people then—not sports celebrants but people—just came out to wreck the place. Vandals and people committing crimes burned about four times as many cars as we lost in Toronto during the G-20 summit.

I actually went down. I worked very closely with the chief of police in Montreal and I had people on the ground with him there. We learned from that event, by the way. What we learned from the Montreal police and with the assistance of the Montreal police in Toronto, I think, contributed to our success in minimizing the damage in Toronto.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON

That speaks to your preparation—

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Thank you, Mr. Holder.

Thank you, Chief, for the generosity of your time. I appreciate your being here.

I'll suspend for two minutes while the other witnesses come in, and we'll return to the committee hearing.

10:03 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Colleagues, let's resume our meeting.

Our next witnesses are Mr. Justin Taylor and Madame Joyce Reynolds from the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association.

Welcome to the committee, Mr. Taylor and Madame Reynolds. You have, I assume, a presentation, and you've been briefed by the clerk as to the length of your presentation. Thereafter members will wish to ask you questions. So the time is yours.

November 4th, 2010 / 10:03 a.m.

Joyce Reynolds Executive Vice-President, Government Affairs, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. We appreciate the opportunity to be here today.

Justin Taylor and I represent the $60 billion, one million employee food service industry. Today we're here to talk about the $5.8 billion Toronto restaurant industry and the impact of the G-20 on our sector.

In Toronto there are over 8,000 food service establishments, employing 85,000 people. In the neighbourhoods most impacted by the G-20, our percentage of employment is as high as 8%. The industry suffered significant losses as a result of the G-20. We're an industry with very skinny profit margins, 3.2% on average. So when the industry is experiencing a major loss on one of the weekends that is typically one of the busiest of the year, it's really devastating. It's been four and a half months since the G-20, and our members have not received compensation yet.

So we're here today to ask for the committee's assistance in providing quick and fair compensation to our restaurant operators for the losses they experienced.

I'm going to ask Justin Taylor to review for you the CRFA survey that we conducted to assess the impact of the losses on our industry.

10:05 a.m.

Justin Taylor Vice-President, Labour and Supply, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

I believe everyone has received a copy of our presentation. I am going to speak to the numbers in it.

Following the G-20 summit, we conducted an online survey to assess the depth and breadth of the impact of the summit on Toronto food service operators. The survey was sent by e-mail to our database of food service operators across Toronto, both members of the association and non-members.

On page 2 you have some information about the response rate we had, which indicates that the numbers I'll be talking about today represent the views of 234 establishments in the city of Toronto. We will be comparing numbers from downtown and outside downtown as well. There's a bit of an explanation on the slides of how we defined those areas.

I want to mention quickly that we do not have numbers on the statistical significance of this. We prepared this survey immediately after the G-20, and respondents sometimes had operations across the city with multiple restaurants, so it was difficult for us to assess the statistical significance of the results. But the survey really gives you an indication of the impact on restaurants and about the sentiments of those business owners.

On page 3 of the briefing package you will see that the first question we asked was, “For the period Monday June 21st to Wednesday June 30th, how was your business impacted by the G20 meetings in Toronto compared to the same period in 2009?” This first pie chart shows you that on average in Toronto, 73% of respondents said they saw a significant decrease in business.

I also wanted to point out that we assessed the period leading up to the G-20, as well as the weekend of the summit, because there were a number of highway closures for security reasons. The security perimeter was starting to be erected during that period, and many businesses in downtown Toronto, including many of the major employers, instructed their employees to stay home and to work from home. That had a huge impact. Restaurants that usually serve coffee and muffins in the morning to office workers or serve beers after work were all affected by this decision to instruct employees to stay home.

On page 4 I break it down between downtown and outside of downtown, indicating that 93% of those who responded to our survey said there was a significant decrease in sales downtown. That's a huge impact on downtown businesses and restaurants, which are, as Joyce mentioned, operating on thin profit margins to start with.

What really surprised us was the impact on businesses outside of downtown as well. Outside of the downtown core, 54% of respondents saw a significant drop in business and 18% saw a modest drop in business. This is very surprising compared with what we were expecting. The impact was much more widespread than just the immediate downtown core.

On page 5 of the presentation you will see that we asked those who saw a decrease in business to explain how severe that decrease was. In the downtown, on average, businesses saw a 55% decrease in business for that full week, and this includes the weekend and the week leading up to the summit. Outside of downtown, on average, it was a 28% decrease in business.

Again, as my colleague mentioned, this was during one of the weekends that are traditionally the busiest for restaurants in downtown Toronto. You can imagine there was no one sitting on a patio having a beer, where they normally would have, during this weekend.

Another important point about the restaurant sector is that it's unlike other sectors, say, for example, retail, where someone might have delayed the purchase of a jacket or shoes and come back a week later. In our sector, when you lose a sale, it's gone forever. The individuals have chosen to consume that meal elsewhere, and the loss is not recuperated later on.

On page 6 of my presentation is a question about what the other impacts of the G-20 were on businesses. Here, 81% of restaurants downtown reported fewer customers and 65% of restaurants outside of downtown reported fewer customers. There was also a huge impact on tourism, obviously, with 60% of restaurants downtown seeing a huge drop in the number of tourists.

Of those who responded, only 8% saw direct vandalism to their stores, but what's important to remember is that when one restaurant is vandalized, people don't want to go into the neighbouring restaurants either, because they don't feel safe.

That brings me to the next point. We asked a question about how many restaurants closed due to safety concerns, either for their employees or their customers. Thirty-two per cent of restaurants outside of downtown and 51% of restaurants downtown closed due to safety concerns for staff or customers.

I come now to a point that would be of interest to this committee, particularly compensation. We surveyed our database to find out who was aware of government compensation that was supposed to be provided to restaurants. Sixty-seven per cent of downtown respondents were aware that there was some form of government compensation for loss of business, and 58% of the restaurants downtown that responded said they intended to apply for compensation. Well over half of the downtown respondents intended to apply for compensation, but few have done so, due to the administrative burden, the limited area eligible for compensation, and the fact that many restaurants were forced to close due to safety concerns.

I made a number of follow-up phone calls with members who indicated that they were particularly interested in the progress we're making on compensation. The vast majority told me they've decided not to apply for compensation because there are real costs associated with hiring an accountant and a lawyer to fill out all of the required forms. The way the guidelines are written, the government is under no obligation to provide compensation, and there's no guarantee restaurants will actually see any compensation. Also, the areas downtown that have been highlighted for compensation are very restricted compared to the areas that saw a significant decrease in business. The sentiment is that many restaurants feel disappointed by what happened and don't feel convinced that they will receive compensation if they do apply for it.

On page 8 I mentioned some additional reasons why restaurants located at a fair distance from the security perimeter saw big decreases in business. I myself live in downtown Toronto and found it very difficult to get from point A to point B because of the closures of the subway and the security perimeters.

In slide number 9 is a picture of a downtown café with a chair thrown through a window. Under the compensation guidelines, if you decided to close your business during the G-20, you are not eligible for compensation, but I would like to know how a restaurant would be able to stay open following this type of situation.

I've been asked to speed it up a little bit here, so I'll just move—

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

You're bordering on ten minutes. Can you wind it up very shortly?

10:10 a.m.

Vice-President, Labour and Supply, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Justin Taylor

Okay.

In conclusion, downtown and outside of downtown restaurants are asking for fair and efficient processing of their claims. They're looking for an expansion of the areas eligible for compensation, and we're looking for compensation for the restaurants that were forced to close because of security concerns.

Thank you very much.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Thank you, Mr. Taylor.

Colleagues, we took an extra 15 minutes with Chief Blair. We're now at 10:15. We're supposed to be out of here by 10:45. That leaves half an hour, and I'd like to reserve five minutes for committee business, so that's 25 minutes. Unless the chair is going to be hanged, drawn, and quartered, I'm going to be arbitrarily allocating four minutes for the first round to each, so that will take us to 24 minutes. No, I'm sorry, that's 16 minutes. Okay, I'll give you six minutes, and we'll only have one round of questioning.

I really need Mr. Martin to do the math for me.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Thank you very much to both of you for taking the time. This is an enlightening presentation this morning and a very important one.

I'm astounded by the numbers. You said 84% had significant or modest decrease in sales. That's a pretty serious impact. Not only is compensation required for the damages to a lot of these restaurants, but there is the loss of income. This is pretty significant and very serious. I would like to support you in your endeavour to have fair, efficient, and timely compensation, because this is pretty detrimental.

I find it ironic that $2 million was allocated for a fake lake exhibit to encourage tourism, and the impact of that kind of thing was that we actually had a decrease in business to Toronto.

What did the summit cost the members of your organization? Do you have the cost quantified? What was the extent of the impact? I know 84% was “significant” or “modest”, but do you have that quantified financially?

10:15 a.m.

Vice-President, Labour and Supply, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Justin Taylor

No, we haven't been able to quantify it financially, because it would be the comparable year-over-year sales that have decreased. We didn't go through the financially difficult exercise of hiring an accountant to calculate that at this time.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Once the summit was over and we had all those “tourism benefits”, did you actually have a bump in sales? You didn't see the benefit afterwards?

10:15 a.m.

Vice-President, Labour and Supply, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Justin Taylor

No, and many restaurants reported that because the G-20 summit fell so close to the Canada Day weekend, many Torontonians just decided to get out of town for a week or two. So the lag in sales continued for a longer period of time than expected.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

When did sales start to stabilize, let alone go up?

10:15 a.m.

Vice-President, Labour and Supply, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Justin Taylor

About two weeks later.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

So you had a decrease in sales for upwards of two-plus weeks.

10:15 a.m.

Executive Vice-President, Government Affairs, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Joyce Reynolds

We had a much better summer weather-wise this year. The summer the year before was actually quite cold and wet, so that makes the comparison challenging as well.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

Yes, absolutely.

So I'm hearing from you that you want a couple of things changed. You want what I'm going to call the “limited area eligibility” rule changed. That's one of your asks. The other is to include those businesses that actually closed because they were concerned about safety and security. You want those included in the elements, and then you want this process to be moved very expeditiously.

We're almost five months after the event now. Are any of your restaurants anywhere near getting any compensation at this point?

10:15 a.m.

Vice-President, Labour and Supply, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Justin Taylor

I followed up with all of the members who intended to seek compensation, and not a single member has seen any compensation to date.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL

I'm sorry, I didn't catch all that you said.

No one has received compensation at this point?